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View Poll Results: Venus or Maria?

Venus Williams 150 82.42%
Maria Sharapova 32 17.58%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #106
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
Who the hell are you? Don't answer that I already know.
Maria doesn't go out and hit the ball and pray for the win, like you mentioned players like Mauresmo, Henin, Clijsters were players who were really forcing Maria to add a lot more things in her game to beat them. I suggest you to watch her last matches over Henin, Clijsters and even Mauresmo to realize that Maria despite hitting very hard she was very aware of what she was doing. She figured most of them between 2006 and 2008 by adding a lot more things in her game (OZ 2008 is a perfect example, she dismantled Henin in every possible way and not just by hitting hard) their very last match in French Open was also a great match tactically by Maria, I remember Clijsters praising Maria's match against Henin at the French and saying the very same words such as Maria improving her game over the years that there was a time she was just trying to overpower players but that now she really became a lot more complete.
I'd add to this that Maria is well known to research her opponents before matches. She doesn't possess the skill set of a Henin, but she produces the best from what she has and is adaptable in changing her plan of attack.

As for the Serena, I think it's partly match-up issues and partly because Serena brings her A-game. And everyone knows rena's A-game > wta.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #107
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
Maria has no tactics. She just goes out and hits the ball. She may have improved how to play defense some, and think about doing it, but that isnt exactly what I call tactical know how. We see that in her matches with Serena especialy. Granted Serena is the much better player and a bad matchup for her, so there is probably no good solution for that. However Maria doesnt even try anything new. She just tried the same thing every single time, outslugging Serena from the baseline, and gets clobbered each time doing so. If she had any tactics at all she would atleast try something different, even make some subtle adjustments but none. That is also why other people who are bad matchups for her or she has trouble beating like Azarenka, Henin, Mauresmo, she pretty much just keeps losing to unless she has an "in zone" day, or they have an off day, or both.
pls answer : who can be competitive with Serena of Olympics and Istanbul Final? Nobody can return back her aces and almost nobody has big and reliable serve which can save from being broken with a help of her fierce ROS?

Sharapova now has unrealibale serve, and is gifting even to scrubs in early rounds at least one game on her serve. What is more after shoulder injury still can't serve wide in Ad-court, it makes her serve predictable. Of course it decreases her chances vs players with best ROS.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #108
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Joe. View Post
Thought I'd join the 'Peak' hype.

I actually think Maria wins this one....
then you must be on drugs
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #109
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Lilowannabe View Post
I'd add to this that Maria is well known to research her opponents before matches. She doesn't possess the skill set of a Henin, but she produces the best from what she has and is adaptable in changing her plan of attack.

As for the Serena, I think it's partly match-up issues and partly because Serena brings her A-game. And everyone knows rena's A-game > wta.
Indeed and to beat Serena she would have to defend or use variety like Henin but she can't do that.

Maria's H2H against all players is quite respectable the only pain in the ass for her is Serena and when we know how well Serena plays against her every single time, there isn't much to do. Maria is one of the best returners out there but Serena just serves way too well and even more against her, she reduces Maria's chances like noone else even in YEC final as soon as she was seeing a lil danger she was firing an ace or a great serve what could she do about that?
I know Maria's H2H over Serena is really bad but really Serena just doesn't let her take control of anything and every time like I said the last time, I don't remember Serena serving poorly against Maria in any of their matches since YEC 2004
Serena serving and returning this well is too good for anyone and not just Maria.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #110
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Dsanders is oddly keeping very quiet in this discussion about Serena vs Maria.

Specially when he's having such a big mouth talking about Vee not being smart, not being good at defense, yada yada..
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 08:49 PM   #111
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
why are you like this, Matty?! Constantly dissing Serena like this...now you saying that almost anybody ( save Maria, I guess?) moves better than her.

And where were you when your fellow Serena fan claimed that Serena has the best movement of anyone (which she obviously hasn't)? I'm sorry but just because your fave has currently the most Slams of the active players doesn't mean that she is the best in everything. And saying that Serena does one thing worse than Maria and one thing worse than Azarenka is not a diss at Serena, it's just stating the obvious. I'm really sorry that you are such an oversensitive stan.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #112
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Lilowannabe View Post
I'd add to this that Maria is well known to research her opponents before matches. She doesn't possess the skill set of a Henin, but she produces the best from what she has and is adaptable in changing her plan of attack.

No, she isn't adaptable since she always plays the same one-dimensional ball bashing game. She can't volley, she can't slice, she can't moonball (but to her credit she has learned how to slide and defend on clay) which is also why she is pretty much a hopeless case when players like Serena, Azarenka or Henin are playing well which the H2H shows.

Now as for the comparison with Venus: Her advantage in this match-up is that Venus has poor technique on her serve and forehand which makes her less consistant than Pova. On grass Venus would bash Pova off the court but on all other surfaces I'd give Pova the edge.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #113
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
And where were you when your fellow Serena fan claimed that Serena has the best movement of anyone (which she obviously hasn't)? I'm sorry but just because your fave has currently the most Slams of the active players doesn't mean that she is the best in everything. And saying that Serena does one thing worse than Maria and one thing worse than Azarenka is not a diss at Serena, it's just stating the obvious. I'm really sorry that you are such an oversensitive stan.
That isn't what you said. You act like ONLY Masha's the worst mover than Serena, so don't go play funny now.

Anyways, we know where you're coming from..so it's good.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #114
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Serena doesnt move as well as her peak and if a Henin or Clijsters or younger Venus were playing today she probably wouldnt be the best mover anymore, but amongst who actually is there, she is the best mover out there today even at 31 I agree. Azarenka is not a better mover, she actually is only a fairly good mover, but her anticipation helps her alot, and her overall defense is very good. If one wants to argue anyone is moving better than Serena today it would be someone like Wozniacki or Radwanska, not Azarenka. In fact peak Wozniacki 2010-2011 is a way better mover and defender than Azarenka, and I am no Wozniacki fan.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #115
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

E.g. Radwanska and Kerber among the Top 10 are better movers and defenders than Serena for sure.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #116
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Radwanska could be, but Radwanska is a much better mover than Azarenka as well anyway. I hate watching Kerber and her slouchy handgog look, constant pouting and whiny demeanor, and so turn the TV off minutes into any of her matches, so I cant say for sure on her. She is a good mover though.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #117
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Everyone talks about Venus not being a tactical player I disagree. she has displayed awesome tactics at times in her career. With her angles and then coming into net. Knowing when to hit the drop volley, a regular volley, or swinging volley. Her serves into the body and then attacking jamming opponents. when she use to hit behind opponents and if you even look at her matches from Luxembourg she was trying out new tactics that she hasn't been playing with.


And everyone always mentions Venus losing record against Maria on hardcourt. Well only 3 of those matches were outdoor hardcourt and one indoor court. 2004 Zurich yea maria beat Venus don't have anything to say about that except alot of people beat Venus in 2004. 2005 miami again maria played well can't say anything about that,

but that 2007 match was Venus' 2nd tournament back after being out for about 6 months and she retired from that tournament and had not played since Wimbledon 2006 before that which was only about 7 tournaments in over a year and she still took Maria to 3 sets in Miami.

If you always want to put an asterisk on Venus '09 win then put one on Maria's win.

Venus also played Maria decently in Rome this year, (Maria's best year on clay and Venus' first year coming back from Sjrogrens) I'm pretty sure even the clay tennis Venus played in 2010 and 2009 would have really made a match with Marai let alone 2000-2003 Venus
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #118
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

And sometimes I think people forget that 18 year Sharapova at 2005 Wimbeldon was considered maybe the best player in the world (ranked 2nd) and was defintely considered the best grass court player in that span. (All the commentators and experts declared it) and Venus took it to maria that day and withstood everything she had!
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #119
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
E.g. Radwanska and Kerber among the Top 10 are better movers and defenders than Serena for sure.
Yeah, so?! Serena does everything else soooo much better than both of them, that whatever edge they might have in defense...doesn't make a difference.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #120
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpkRM4NcygI

Watch the shots at 1:55 and 5:12 to see how good Venus' defence really is.
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