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View Poll Results: Venus or Maria?

Venus Williams 150 82.42%
Maria Sharapova 32 17.58%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #91
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Are you going to claim Venus is a tactically smart player again? I've been waiting for one of her delusional stans to claim it ever since this thread appeared
No Maria is most defo the smarter player tactically, she's had to be even at her peak. Peak Venus was all instinct, see ball hit ball!! I disagree with you though about Venus being a poor defensive player. She's probably the fastest woman I've ever seen play tennis and her retrieving ability alone put huge pressure on opponents to overhit!! For me the only thing that separated them in that fantastic 05 Wimbledon match was Venus better defence.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #92
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
You are spitting nonsense, stop it already. I almost think you are trolling.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 05:03 PM   #93
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Come on, it's not even opinion based, it's fact that Serena's faster than VIka.
Better mover, well now there's a case as VIka has better footwork and anticipation, but even an aged Serena's raw foot speed>vikas
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 05:03 PM   #94
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Azarenka yes, Sharapova no.
why are you like this, Matty?! Constantly dissing Serena like this...now you saying that almost anybody ( save Maria, I guess?) moves better than her.

The other day also you had some other stupid comment. Are you having such a hard time dealing with Juju's retirement and Caroline Wozniacki's fall from the spotlights?!
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #95
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
why are you like this, Matty?! Constantly dissing Serena like this...now you saying that almost anybody ( save Maria, I guess?) moves better than her.

The other day also you had some other stupid comment. Are you having such a hard time dealing with Juju's retirement and Caroline Wozniacki's fall from the spotlights?!
He's such a troll, always glorifying the lesser gerls over the relevant ones. Bless his heart.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #96
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
....Venus simply never had any clue how to play smart defence -- she'd go for winners even when stretched out wide, which resulted in a spectacular winner approximately 1 in every 10 attempts, but the other 9 times she'd either miss or she'd counter-intuitively be punished by hitting such a fast-paced shot, because it wouldn't give her enough time to get back into the middle of the baseline and her opponent would be able to hit to the other side before Venus could get there.

Maria on clay this year, even though her raw footspeed was a shadow of Peak Venus's footspeed, played just as efficient/effective defence as Venus has at any point in her career, because she actually anticipated her opponent's plays better and played much smarter defensive shots (mid-paced shots to a good length which gave her enough time to get back to the middle of the baseline and didn't give her opponent an easy putaway) than Venus has at any point in her career....and her movement has always been irrelevant because it's never won her her matches at any point in her career.
You're describing good but not great Venus and comparing her to a recent Maria, who is just learning how to do what Venus was regularly doing in 2000-03 and sporadically in '05, '07 and '08.

I think you need to closely re-watch (or watch) matches of Venus in slam-winning form. Full matches, not the highlights. It was her spectacular defense -- those balls repeatedly sent back with just enough spin to dip before the baseline -- that put nail to coffin in her matches against Lindsay, Monica, Mary and yes Maria. That end of the first set and the entire second set of their Wimbledon '05 match was about Venus' defense wearing Maria down.



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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #97
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Lilowannabe View Post
No Maria is most defo the smarter player tactically, she's had to be even at her peak. Peak Venus was all instinct, see ball hit ball!! I disagree with you though about Venus being a poor defensive player. She's probably the fastest woman I've ever seen play tennis and her retrieving ability alone put huge pressure on opponents to overhit!! For me the only thing that separated them in that fantastic 05 Wimbledon match was Venus better defence.
I don't agree with you here It was not Venus' defense that separated them, it was her much better offense and better serving. You should watch the whole match and you will see what I am talking about


PS I am tempted to add that this first set should have been 6:3
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 06:04 PM   #98
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by Atlicznie View Post
The Guardians of the Shrieking Razor should concede defeat. Their fave is losing another poll by a big margin.
This post made my hair tingle for some reason. Probably because it's such TRUTH.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #99
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by V.e.s.W View Post
I don't agree with you here It was not Venus' defense that separated them, it was her much better offense and better serving. You should watch the whole match and you will see what I am talking about


PS I am tempted to add that this first set should have been 6:3
And Venus shouldn't have won Wimbledon that year.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #100
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
And Venus shouldn't have won Wimbledon that year.
But Maria would have still lost
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #101
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

i think venus wins on hard and grass but i just love what sharapova produced at roland garros this year.. so who knows

d., youre cute with your little facts and everyhing but venus defending bad? just no

she may be stubborn abot change tathics in the middle of the match but still when shes playing defense, she can be a pain in the ass for the attacker.. the thing is, thats not her game.. defending wont make her win matches, even she knows that
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #102
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Venus no doubt!!!!!!
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #103
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Mr Bitchell'd better do not come in here because it will get ugly if he does.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #104
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
And Maria's some tactical genius?! If she was, she'd have figure out how to beat Vika more often than not (even on HC) by now.
Maria has no tactics. She just goes out and hits the ball. She may have improved how to play defense some, and think about doing it, but that isnt exactly what I call tactical know how. We see that in her matches with Serena especialy. Granted Serena is the much better player and a bad matchup for her, so there is probably no good solution for that. However Maria doesnt even try anything new. She just tried the same thing every single time, outslugging Serena from the baseline, and gets clobbered each time doing so. If she had any tactics at all she would atleast try something different, even make some subtle adjustments but none. That is also why other people who are bad matchups for her or she has trouble beating like Azarenka, Henin, Mauresmo, she pretty much just keeps losing to unless she has an "in zone" day, or they have an off day, or both.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 07:40 PM   #105
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
Maria has no tactics. She just goes out and hits the ball. She may have improved how to play defense some, and think about doing it, but that isnt exactly what I call tactical know how. We see that in her matches with Serena especialy. Granted Serena is the much better player and a bad matchup for her, so there is probably no good solution for that. However Maria doesnt even try anything new. She just tried the same thing every single time, outslugging Serena from the baseline, and gets clobbered each time doing so. If she had any tactics at all she would atleast try something different, even make some subtle adjustments but none. That is also why other people who are bad matchups for her or she has trouble beating like Azarenka, Henin, Mauresmo, she pretty much just keeps losing to unless she has an "in zone" day, or they have an off day, or both.
Who the hell are you? Don't answer that I already know.
Maria doesn't go out and hit the ball and pray for the win, like you mentioned players like Mauresmo, Henin, Clijsters were players who were really forcing Maria to add a lot more things in her game to beat them. I suggest you to watch her last matches over Henin, Clijsters and even Mauresmo to realize that Maria despite hitting very hard she was very aware of what she was doing. She figured most of them between 2006 and 2008 by adding a lot more things in her game (OZ 2008 is a perfect example, she dismantled Henin in every possible way and not just by hitting hard) their very last match in French Open was also a great match tactically by Maria, I remember Clijsters praising Maria's match against Henin at the French and saying the very same words such as Maria improving her game over the years that there was a time she was just trying to overpower players but that now she really became a lot more complete.
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