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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:09 PM   #46
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

What's DKIT? Is that Dundalk or something? Do you know where you want to go? I think UCD has slipped a bit in recent years but I might go back there if they offer a primary school teaching postgrad diploma, which they may be doing!
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #47
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

Yeah Dundalk Institute of Technology. Oh sorry I'm at UCD I was working at the Open Day. My first 4 CAO choices however were Trinity but I'm actually happier I came here I think.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #48
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

I'm hoping to go to UCD. Although I only decided to apply through CAO in the past few days so I didn't get a chance to organise going down today.

Did you hear much mention of the demonstrations at the open day?
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #49
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

A bit not a lot, I was only there for 2 hours though not the whole day. Doing stuff for the International Office btw if you go to UCD totally try and go on Erasmus or Exchange its amazing
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:27 PM   #50
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

I'll look that up now. I'm hoping for Medicine and you can work in Africa in fourth year I think, I'm definitely interested in that.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #51
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

I said before and I will say it again, they call themselves "pro life" but they are as anti life as it gets, what they really want is forced birth. And they forced her to give birth so no harm no foul. Who cares if the mother and the father died.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #52
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by égalité View Post
"Pro-life" is one of the biggest misnomers out there. This whole mindset is anti-woman and that's about it.
This!
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #53
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

I don't even think the pro-life or pro-choice thing applies in this case, well some crazy people might say that she should have been denied an abortion but some pro-lifers just oppose abortion on demand and accept it in medical cases like this.

TBH most sane people should agree with an abortion if the mother's life is in danger.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 11:10 PM   #54
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KournikovaFan91 View Post
I don't even think the pro-life or pro-choice thing applies in this case, well some crazy people might say that she should have been denied an abortion but some pro-lifers just oppose abortion on demand and accept it in medical cases like this.

TBH most sane people should agree with an abortion if the mother's life is in danger.
So this is the problem with laws that ban abortion except when. The hospital likely feared running afoul of the anti abortion ban and to avoid any ambiguity or risk you just let the woman die.

Abortion should be safe and legal.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 11:27 PM   #55
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

I actually feel the hospital has some responsibility in this as well as law makers, yes there was now specific legislation to enforce the X Case however once that ruling was made it meant abortions could be performed if the woman's life was in danger. That should be common knowledge among doctors, no? Particularly in OBGYN.
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Old Nov 17th, 2012, 11:42 PM   #56
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

this is an absolutely heartbreaking story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KournikovaFan91 View Post
I don't even think the pro-life or pro-choice thing applies in this case, well some crazy people might say that she should have been denied an abortion but some pro-lifers just oppose abortion on demand and accept it in medical cases like this.

TBH most sane people should agree with an abortion if the mother's life is in danger.
i (and every other pro-lifer i know) fall under this category.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:53 AM   #57
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KournikovaFan91 View Post
I actually feel the hospital has some responsibility in this as well as law makers, yes there was now specific legislation to enforce the X Case however once that ruling was made it meant abortions could be performed if the woman's life was in danger. That should be common knowledge among doctors, no? Particularly in OBGYN.
But even in this case it's not the clear.

Say she gets the abortion and doesn't die. You know what that is? A chance for a no good forced birther to say that this was an "on demand abortion" and someone has to go to jail, because "pain" is not life threatening.

And in fact in America more than one woman has been arrested for having a misscarriage. And indeed she asked for the abortion, so it was on demand. In fact, 22 year old Christine Taylor of iowa was arrested for falling down the stairs while pregnant. Her crime? Attempted feticide. Only an international outcry saved her from facing 15 years to life. But not every woman is so lucky. All over the world women face jail time (and separation from their children for having a misscarriage or being the victim of domestic violence while pregnant or for daring to have an abortion. That's what the forced birth movement is all about. Life has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

This is exactly what every single forced birther knows. When you say the woman has to be forced to give birth unless she is dying there can only be one outcome: Thousands of women AND their fetuses will die. And that's exactly what the forced birth movement is about, forcing women to give birth no matter how many women die.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 12:06 PM   #58
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

That's awful. The poor woman. To have to go through the physical and emotional pain of (almost?) losing her child and then to be charged with attempted foeticide! (when you say "attempted," do you mean it survived?) She shouldn't have even had to go through the ordeal of an investigation.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 12:19 PM   #59
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigglytuff View Post
But even in this case it's not the clear.

Say she gets the abortion and doesn't die. You know what that is? A chance for a no good forced birther to say that this was an "on demand abortion" and someone has to go to jail, because "pain" is not life threatening.

And in fact in America more than one woman has been arrested for having a misscarriage. And indeed she asked for the abortion, so it was on demand. In fact, 22 year old Christine Taylor of iowa was arrested for falling down the stairs while pregnant. Her crime? Attempted feticide. Only an international outcry saved her from facing 15 years to life. But not every woman is so lucky.
All over the world women face jail time (and separation from their children for having a misscarriage or being the victim of domestic violence while pregnant or for daring to have an abortion. That's what the forced birth movement is all about. Life has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

This is exactly what every single forced birther knows. When you say the woman has to be forced to give birth unless she is dying there can only be one outcome: Thousands of women AND their fetuses will die. And that's exactly what the forced birth movement is about, forcing women to give birth no matter how many women die.
Wait, are you actually serious? AND IT HAPPENED IN THE US ?

Oh my god...

I AM SO FREAKING LUCKY TO LIVE IN FRANCE My sister-in-law had a miscarriage then a still born. Well not a still born but the baby would be dead right at the birth so it was pointless to keep the baby. She was 3 months pregnant And the baby didn't have a cranium so yeah... and she went in a great clinic where she had an abortion with medicaments and such. They took care of her, and she had two weeks off from work to recover from that. The baby was still alive you know? But she still had an abortion. Even if it happened after the legal limit of the abortion, she would have gotten it.

It's a recent law though (the abortion for medical reasons beyond 12 weeks of pregnancy), from 2002.

http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/1/...ement-2007.jpg

I can't find it in english but basically :

black : abortion is illegal except if that allows to save the mother's life
dark grey : same + in case of rapes
grey : allowed if mother physically or mentally threatened by the pregnancy or/and rape
white with black dots : rape, health reasons or social economical reasons
light grey : allowed, but can be restrained by the lack of the care means.
pencil : country where the woman needs her husband's consent to have an abortion

For South America, it's said that even in cases of rape or incest, the abortion can be forbidden.

I am surprised at Australia not even being light grey.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #60
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Re: Woman in Ireland dies of septicaemia after being denied an abortion

If abortion was legal for cases involving rape or health issues I think that would be the best.
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