[TNT2009]

Alexus Jones

[BlueTrees]

Originally Posted by *hingis_forever*

Well, seeing as Laura beat Vinci in straight sets on clay this year, I don't consider it very delusional to think she'd beat her on grass at Wimbledon.

We were making the comparisons of Barty/Robson at the same age, i.e. Robson as a 16 year old (around 2010 Wimbledon). At this time Robson was ranked outside Top 200 and lost in straight sets to Cibulkova, Wickmayer and Jankovic in the grass season. I don't think any of that suggests that she would take a set off of Vinci of 2012 on grass, moreso actually beat her. Of course now Robson would have a fair chance of beating her, but it's not like that would be a given.

[Shvedbarilescu]

Originally Posted by BlueTrees

We were making the comparisons of Barty/Robson at the same age, i.e. Robson as a 16 year old (around 2010 Wimbledon). At this time Robson was ranked outside Top 200 and lost in straight sets to Cibulkova, Wickmayer and Jankovic in the grass season. I don't think any of that suggests that she would take a set off of Vinci of 2012 on grass. Of course now Robson would have a fair chance of beating her, but it's not like that would be a given.

Okay, but Robson was playing competitive matches against top 100 players regularly. She had sets against Hantuchova and Benesova. She had a win against Goerges. She was winning 9 games against Jankovic and Wickmayer, both top 20 players. Problem with Barty is that not only has she not won 1 set out of 10 against top 100 players, only 2 of those ten sets were even competitive and one of those was against Tatishvili. That's 8 sets out of 10 sets with 2 or less games won. Before I believe a player is ready to compete against top 100 opposition I need some sort of sign. I have not yet gotten it from Barty.

[Mary Chain]

Oh, I forgot to mention Anna-Lena Friedsam. But really, watch Sasnovich, she's very talented and crafty. I think she can be big.

[Shvedbarilescu]

Re: Alison van Uytvanck there are other things that also make me very optimistic about her future that have nothing to do with her results. When I first saw her in a junior 1st round match at Wimbledon I saw a rough diamond right then and there. Even though she lost that match, I left that day remembering this talented redhead who had more skills that all the other juniors I saw combined. Sure not everything was coming off and a lot of the time she was careless but I saw the talent even then and when she started winning loads of matches on the ITF tour the at the start of 2011 I knew I was on to something.

Seriously, she does have an uncommon level of talent. Her serve is unusually big for an 18 year old and can only improve. She is strong and can use her forehand to hit powerful winners and she has great volleying skills for someone so young as well as tremendous touch which is always something that catches my eye. As with all players success will come down to how hard she works and how motivated she is. But if we are talking about raw talent, AVU has more of it than any 18 year old on the tour as far as I'm concerned. Next year we will start seeing what she does with it.

[Shvedbarilescu]

Originally Posted by Faithnareva

Oh, I forgot to mention Anna-Lena Friedsam. But really, watch Sasnovich, she's very talented and crafty. I think she can be big.

Yeah, she is one I didn't mention either but definately a girl with big potential.

[BlueTrees]

Originally Posted by Shvedbarilescu

Okay, but Robson was playing competitive matches against top 100 players regularly. She had sets against Hantuchova and Benesova. She had a win against Goerges. She was winning 9 games against Jankovic and Wickmayer, both top 20 players. Problem with Barty is that not only has she not won 1 set out of 10 against top 100 players, only 2 of those ten sets were even competitive and one of those was against Tatishvili.

I'm sorry, but just because you took "a set" off of some top players (and Goerges wasn't even a top player then, and was Benesova ever a "top player"? ) is not indicative that she would be able to always repeat that level, at that stage of her career. 90%+ chance is that Vinci would've won in straight sets. Especially seeing as Robson was straight setted by Wickmayer and Cibulkova the weeks leading up.

As for your other post, once again I don't even think it's right to compare girls who are two and a half years apart, picking how many Top 100 wins they had at "Age X". If we played that game then I guess all of these girls would look at Sharapova's career at the age they are now and find another job

I know you're going to reply to this post because you always want to have the last say, so have at it. Once again Robson should never have been brought into the discussion.

[Shvedbarilescu]

Originally Posted by BlueTrees

I'm sorry, but just because you took "a set" off of some top players (and Goerges wasn't even a top player then, and was Benesova ever a "top player"? ) is not indicative that she would be able to always repeat that level, at that stage of her career. 90%+ chance is that Vinci would've won in straight sets. Especially seeing as Robson was straight setted by Wickmayer and Cibulkova the weeks leading up.

As for your other post, once again I don't even think it's right to compare girls who are two and a half years apart, picking how many Top 100 wins they had at "Age X". If we played that game then I guess all of these girls would look at Sharapova's career at the age they are now and find another job

I know you're going to reply to this post because you always want to have the last say, so have at it. Once again Robson should never have been brought into the discussion.

No. I have no need for a last word. But I would consider it rude not to reply.

I think I've said everything that I want to say.

I actually think we are mostly in agreement then that comparisons between how two successful two players are at 16 is fairly useless and doesn't have a great bearing on how they will do as their careers progress. And yeah, I agree I don't think there is a lot of point in comparing Barty to Robson, but then I wasn't the one that initiated that comparison.

[binky-GOAT]

Shvedbarilescu your argument is flawed because you are only looking at one side of the story.


1. How is a player supposed to be ready for WTA if they are losing easily in $25k and $10k level? Even if they are having a bad day they should still pull out the win.


2. You don't trust Donna's WTA run, but isn't that completely against your point? (ie some few big results are all that matter, ignore the more conclusive ITF results)


3. A point I keep mentioning but you ignoring, a young player has limited opportunities at WTAs. Not fair to compare a player who has a win over a top 100 player that played like shit on the day to a player that played against an opponent playing well. It is more like a lottery on which player gets the better hand. A young players WTA record should only come into question once they have started to play regularly on tour like Robson.


4. Even some of the best players in the past struggled to win games early. Transitioning can take a year. But usually once they get their first win, many more quickly come.

[fouc]

Originally Posted by Asadinator

Alison van Uytvanck and Anna Karolina Schmiedlova

oh gurl, you are in for a rude awakening

[Shvedbarilescu]

Originally Posted by Asadinator

Shvedbarilescu your argument is flawed because you are only looking at one side of the story.


1. How is a player supposed to be ready for WTA if they are losing easily in $25k and $10k level? Even if they are having a bad day they should still pull out the win.


2. You don't trust Donna's WTA run, but isn't that completely against your point? (ie some few big results are all that matter, ignore the more conclusive ITF results)


3. A point I keep mentioning but you ignoring, a young player has limited opportunities at WTAs. Not fair to compare a player who has a win over a top 100 player that played like shit on the day to a player that played against an opponent playing well. It is more like a lottery on which player gets the better hand. A young players WTA record should only come into question once they have started to play regularly on tour like Robson.


4. Even some of the best players in the past struggled to win games early. Transitioning can take a year. But usually once they get their first win, many more quickly come.

1. The last time I checked, AVU had won her last 6 matches and 10 of the last 12. It was obvious throughout this summer that Alison wasn't focused on her 25k matches. It was never a concern to me. She had already proven she was capable of playing at a higher level than that.

2, Donna's run, is one tournament that is out of context with the rest of her year. But please don't twist my words. I state very clearly that I believe Donna has a much potential as anyone on the tour right now and I acknowledge I might be a bit cautious suggesting she isn't quite ready yet. I wish her well and we will see how next year pans out. On balence I still don't think she is quite ready to compete week in, week out at WTA level yet, but we will see.

3. Alison has played 9 top 100 players. She won 5 of those matches. So are you saying that she got lucky 5 times? Contrast Barty has played ten sets against top 100 players, lost them all and won more than 2 games in a set just twice. If you want to ignore these results, be my guest, I don't care.

4. Again, same thing. Can you distinguish between "not ready yet" and "never going to be ready"? If you actually read what I have said about Barty you would know I think on balance she probably has a good future. But her results do scream "I'm not ready yet". And if you think winning a bunch of matches against players ranked outside the top 200 says otherwise again, that's fine. I don't care. We will see next year.

[Viktymise]

Van Uytvanck didn't impress me much. Like Hercog with a bit of a BH.

[binky-GOAT]

Originally Posted by Shvedbarilescu

1. The last time I checked, AVU had won her last 6 matches and 10 of the last 12. It was obvious throughout this summer that Alison wasn't focused on her 25k matches. It was never a concern to me. She had already proven she was capable of playing at a higher level than that.

2, Donna's run, is one tournament that is out of context with the rest of her year. But please don't twist my words. I state very clearly that I believe Donna has a much potential as anyone on the tour right now and I acknowledge I might be a bit cautious suggesting she isn't quite ready yet. I wish her well and we will see how next year pans out. On balence I still don't think she is quite ready to compete week in, week out at WTA level yet, but we will see.

3. Alison has played 9 top 100 players. She won 5 of those matches. So are you saying that she got lucky 5 times? Contrast Barty has played ten sets against top 100 players, lost them all and won more than 2 games in a set just twice. If you want to ignore these results, be my guest, I don't care.

4. Again, same thing. Can you distinguish between "not ready yet" and "never going to be ready"? If you actually read what I have said about Barty you would know I think on balance she probably has a good future. But her results do scream "I'm not ready yet". And if you think winning a bunch of matches against players ranked outside the top 200 says otherwise again, that's fine. I don't care. We will see next year.

1. If you find losing at low levels nothing to be concerned about...

2. I think Donna has already shown enough, don't understand why you can't see it. Maybe like for most youngsters you haven't been watching their matches.

3. I wasn't saying ignore good results, but you should ignore bad results when we are talking about young players with limited opportunities.

4. So what does someone like Barty need to do to convince you she's ready?
- Win even more at ITF (which you seem to disregard, even when she wins a $50k in your country)
- Win at WTA (but then she can never be ready, unless she wins a match when she wasn't ready, see the paradox?)
- Become 18 years of age

[Shvedbarilescu]

Originally Posted by Asadinator

1. If you find losing at low levels nothing to be concerned about...

2. I think Donna has already shown enough, don't understand why you can't see it. Maybe like for most youngsters you haven't been watching their matches.

3. I wasn't saying ignore good results, but you should ignore bad results when we are talking about young players with limited opportunities.

4. So what does someone like Barty need to do to convince you she's ready?
- Win even more at ITF (which you seem to disregard, even when she wins a $50k in your country)
- Win at WTA (but then she can never be ready, unless she wins a match when she wasn't ready, see the paradox?)
- Become 18 years of age

Err...I see...get back to me in a year's time. I'm busy now.

[Melange]

I dont think Barty will be ready for a year. Too bad she prefers to play at home and theres no 50k events there. Maybe she should go to Asia and play some there. I have seen some matches and it does not look like she is dominant enough. She should get stronger and refine her technique.