[DevilishAttitude]

Originally Posted by bandabou

It didn't help her in '04 either..it is what it is. Serena always has this history: she reaches a big final in her comeback but is unable to win them..she needs a year to get that mental side back.

That happened in '04, that happened in '10. If you're gonna pin '10 u.s. open to lack of mental toughness, then the same can be said about '04. But that of course doesn't fit in your theory.. No, in '04 got outplayed and in '10 Serena crumbled, huh?! Please...

Please show an example where Serena mentally crumbled in 2004? I agree with you that she wasn't at her toughest in that final, but you can't say she crumbled mentally to the same degree she did in 2011. 2004 was more of a case of having a bad day at the office than anything else.

So what? The only thing she could've done to convince you that she was at her mentally toughest was rallying and winning the match. So why didn't you hope for this outcome for '04 Wimbledon?! There was even MORE all over the place...

This comment doesn't make any sense and you are just arguing for the sake of it, I've explained multiple times why I believe what I believe but you just repeat yourself over and over again.

It's just foolish..that you're arguing that a player who went 3-6 in finals this year, didn't even win a single set in those finals she lost..is the toughest player mentally of the whole tour.

As I have said, Sharapova lost the vast majority of those finals, besides against Radwanska where she played poorly, because she was beaten by better players. She lost a lot of those finals because she wasn't good enough to win, not to do with mental toughness.

Originally Posted by Bradbury

Martha can make as much noise as she wants against the lesser ranked players, but when it comes to playing the top players at the biggest stages this year, she has flopped more often than not. If it wasn't for Sara errani and brainless na, she would only have her stuttgart title to show for the season as even Radwanska made her bend over at one of the world's biggest arenas.

Serena on the other hand can struggle and barely scrape by against the lower ranked players but raises her game precisely when she needs to and has the confidence and mental strength to know and execute this against the best players at the biggest stages. That's mental strength.

As I said, if you are going to bring up a sparse few losses that she suffered not even few months into her comeback from a life threatening condition, then what about the horde of losses that Sharapova suffered for two and a half years (and still is, but now at the hands of top players) after her 5 minute surgery.

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You can't just dismiss Maria's shoulder surgery, it was a career threatening injury. I wouldn't dream of saying Serena's foot injury was a "minor problem" or her having blood clots as "a small illness". It's quite tasteless really.

Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan

It will be interesting to see how much longer people can keep going saying the same thing over and over again. I propose that we all just admit that Serena has the best serve, the best return, the best forehand, the best backhand, the best movement, the best defence, the best volleys, the best drop shots, the best overheads, that she's mentally the strongest, that Maria is a mental midget and that Serena had a great season while Maria had a lousy one. Some of that isn't so far from the truth anyway, and as for the rest of it - nobody is going to change anybody else's mind at this point (or even just seriously consider what the other side has to say).

While I think there is the "Serena is best at everything" mentality displayed by a select group of Serena fans, I also think it's more to do with the fact they are completely unwilling to give Maria any credit in any department. No one is saying Sharapova is a better player than Serena, yet some of the comments are quite startling in terms of how anti-Sharapova they are. They would have you thinking that she is a complete non-entity, not the #2 player in the world.

[bandabou]

Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude

Please show an example where Serena mentally crumbled in 2004? I agree with you that she wasn't at her toughest in that final, but you can't say she crumbled mentally to the same degree she did in 2011. 2004 was more of a case of having a bad day at the office than anything else.

She didn't crumble mentally at all..just because she yelled come on too early doesn't mean she wasn't there mentally. She still managed to break Stosur and get ahead..but just like in '04, her opponent was too good.

Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude

This comment doesn't make any sense and you are just arguing for the sake of it, I've explained multiple times why I believe what I believe but you just repeat yourself over and over again.

So why is it that '04 Wimbledon was all outplayed, no chance for Serena...but '11 u.s. open it was Serena just losing it mentally?! Sorry, you're just too funny.

Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude

As I have said, Sharapova lost the vast majority of those finals, besides against Radwanska where she played poorly, because she was beaten by better players. She lost a lot of those finals because she wasn't good enough to win, not to do with mental toughness.

So she either loses because the other players are better, the one time she played 'poorly'...and otherwise ALL her wins are because of mental strength. Who's this guy?!

Never read this much non-sense. What kind of logic is this? Miami final was a prime instance to show that Maria ain't no mental giant. Everytime it became 5-6 and Maria had to serve to stay in the set/match, she crumbled..but then you say, she played poorly?!

Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude

While I think there is the "Serena is best at everything" mentality displayed by a select group of Serena fans, I also think it's more to do with the fact they are completely unwilling to give Maria any credit in any department. No one is saying Sharapova is a better player than Serena, yet some of the comments are quite startling in terms of how anti-Sharapova they are. They would have you thinking that she is a complete non-entity, not the #2 player in the world.

Maria is MANY things, but she ISN'T mentally stronger than Serena. No chance in hell.

[traralgon]

interesting topic