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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 01:57 AM   #31
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

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Originally Posted by mauresmofan View Post
So Amelie was lucky because she made Justine play badly and completely outplayed her everywhere on the court using brilliant strategy and the rebound ace surface that she knew would aid her game to damage Justines whereas Gabi was unlucky because Graf beat her and she couldn't keep her nerve when it mattered. In fact if you do any research Amelie never ever lost to Justine in a Slam and for someone who's renouned as such a mentally frail player vs someone who's renouned as such a tough match player mentally that should tell you all you need to know about where that Aussi Open title was destined to go regardless. Yes she got 3 retirements in that Slam but was it her fault that she was in absolute tip top shape and after coming off the biggest title she'd ever won so also mentally in tip top shape. She was also leading in EVERY match that Michaella, Kim and Justine retired against her.

I think it's an absolute nonsense that people here claim that if so and so was out of the game or if so and so wasn't playing at their absolute best then it somehow diminishes their achievements. The game moves on regardless. It's not like Amelie didn't have her fair share of injuries at Grand Slams which took her out of the equation too.

As for Gabi she was a great player and tough match up for Graf but nearly always when push came to shove she couldn't hack it. She had beaten Graf several times in 91 and yet on the biggest stage she once again let it slip through her fingers.
No doubt Amelie played a great match that day, but I do think a healthy Justine would have won more games, even if she lost the match. I totally agree with you concerning Graf VS Sabatini. Gabi just did not have the mental toughness to beat Graf in a slam final, except in that USO final. As I said before, it is very close between Sabatini and Mauresmo, but I do think that Gabi was up against tougher competition than Amelie was whe she won her 2 slams in 06. Any player who wins a slam, or any other tournament, deserves the win. I am glad Amelie won a couple of slams, I just wish she had not defeated Justine in the finals-LOL!
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 02:12 AM   #32
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

Mauresmo. But really not for the statistical reasons.

She was good enough to make a slam final at 21 or 22. Suffered an injury severe enough to make her completely re-tool her game, and THEN came back and win two slams.

Outside of Serena, what player has suffered a major injury, one that put her out of the game for a while, and came back not only totally different, but BETTER? (Capriati wasn't out because of injury.)

As a note, the whole, 'she played in a tougher era' is pretty bogus. What's tougher, playing Graf and Seles and ASV, or Davenport, Capriati, Venus, Serena, Hingis, Henin, Clijsters, Sharapova ....

Now, that's not an easy question to answer. Mauresmo's 4th round and QF matches were generally WAY tougher than Sabatini's. But when the last player in your way is Graf, and you're Sabatini .... It's Venus vs Seles writ large, if you need a more recent example.

Simply put, Mauresmo navigated her era, and her adversity, better than Sabatini handled her's. Given the fact that the stats are kinda close, I give it to Mauresmo.

Then again, I saw both player's entire careers. Mauresmo was a better player-of-the-game-of-tennis. If I'm playing for my life, and I have to choose one of them to coach me, I'm choosing Mauresmo. Now, if I have to choose one of them to PLAY for my life, I'm choosing Serena.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 07:28 AM   #33
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

who achieved more? mauresmo
who was better? sabatini
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 09:26 AM   #34
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

Amélie. In achievement and game.

played a slam finale at 19 stepping up on Davenport who was world n°1 that time. She deserved her slams and all the titles she won. She was playing with the best players, serena was at her peak, caring about the tour not like today. All the girls were at the same age of amélie and all were great champions. The game rised since the 90's, it became more physical, quicker. Dont think Graff would win as many slams today as she did before simply because the level is different. I think Amelie could have won perhaps one or two more Wimbledon but didnt find the way to do so. she had severe back injury and she managed to have such career, just look at where is safina now. It took a lot for her to rebuild her game and bring more to it, more variety. Sabatini was a great player but Amélie is just better.

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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #35
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

Mauresmo.she was like an improved version of Gaby
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 10:55 AM   #36
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

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Originally Posted by améliemomo View Post
Amélie. In achievement and game.

played a slam finale at 19 stepping up on Davenport who was world n°1 that time.
Yeah, and lost that final miserably. Gaby played and won her first GS final at 20 defeating world #1 Steffi Graf in the final in straight sets. And no offense, but Graf credentials as #1 are slightly different as Davenport's.

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She was playing with the best players, serena was at her peak, caring about the tour not like today.


Are you seriously stating that as an achievement?
Then you should ellaborate a little and explain also that Amelie won just 2 out of her 13 matches with Serena. One on Rome's clay (still a good victory for the French but clay is Serena worst surface by far) and another one in 2006 when Serena just played 4 tournament that year losing before the finals in all four. And Serena still managed to bagel Amelie in that match
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #37
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

True I think the 00's slam draws were much tougher to negotiate. In the 90's there was a bigger gap between the top 5 and everyone else. Funny that she couldn't take advantage of the weak mid 90's era and her game actually dropped off as the competition did. At least Mauresmo took her chances when some of her bigger foes were out or injured.

I think Sabatini had the better ground game, I don't think any top player made her look out of her depth. As for Amelie there were times when her groundies just couldn't hold up (against serena, lindsay, even peak hingis lol). But Amelie was the better athlete with the better serve and tactics, and she won wimbledon which should count for like 3 grand slam titles hehehe :P
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #38
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

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Originally Posted by momo_rama View Post
True I think the 00's slam draws were much tougher to negotiate. In the 90's there was a bigger gap between the top 5 and everyone else. Funny that she couldn't take advantage of the weak mid 90's era and her game actually dropped off as the competition did. At least Mauresmo took her chances when some of her bigger foes were out or injured.

I think Sabatini had the better ground game, I don't think any top player made her look out of her depth. As for Amelie there were times when her groundies just couldn't hold up (against serena, lindsay, even peak hingis lol). But Amelie was the better athlete with the better serve and tactics, and she won wimbledon which should count for like 3 grand slam titles hehehe :P
Agree 100% with your post. The worst thing from Gaby was that she peaked from 1990 to 1992 when Graf and Seles were simply too much for her (and anybody else, for the record). Amelie was "lucky" to peak from 2004 to 2006 and she took her chances. Good for her. But had she peaked in 2000-2002 for instance her overall results would had been much weaker certainly.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 11:44 AM   #39
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

always had a soft spot for sabatini. i keep remembering her in a perfume commercial when i was a kid..

anyone?
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #40
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

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Agree 100% with your post. The worst thing from Gaby was that she peaked from 1990 to 1992 when Graf and Seles were simply too much for her (and anybody else, for the record). Amelie was "lucky" to peak from 2004 to 2006 and she took her chances. Good for her. But had she peaked in 2000-2002 for instance her overall results would had been much weaker certainly.
Come on that's just grasping at straws. Amelie was in the mix for many many years and was becomming more and more consistant. She was in the semis of Wimbledon 4 consecutive times and had really terrific semi finals against Davenport, Serena and Maria (when Maria was way more of a threat for the Wimbledon title than she is now). Serena and Venus had fallen off but then again you had Henin and Clijsters filling the void so to say she was lucky, I don't buy it for a second. There were plenty of players out there with the strength in depth there was in 06 to win Grand Slams. All you have to do is look at the season Henin had in 07 to know how difficult it was for anyone to beat her.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #41
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

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Amelie was in the mix for many many years and was becomming more and more consistant. She was in the semis of Wimbledon 4 consecutive times and had really terrific semi finals against Davenport, Serena and Maria
Same with Gaby, although it seems that she retired early she actually played one more Grand Slam than Amelie. Yeah, she was in the semis of Wimbledon 4 consecutive times. Certainly something really good and I am not saying she is a mediocre player at all but the question here is Mauresmo or Sabatini. You say Amelie got to 4 straight Wimbledon semifinals. I say Gaby got to 18 GS semifinals (for Mauresmo total of 8). These are facts, not a random opinion.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #42
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

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Same with Gaby, although it seems that she retired early she actually played one more Grand Slam than Amelie. Yeah, she was in the semis of Wimbledon 4 consecutive times. Certainly something really good and I am not saying she is a mediocre player at all but the question here is Mauresmo or Sabatini. You say Amelie got to 4 straight Wimbledon semifinals. I say Gaby got to 18 GS semifinals (for Mauresmo total of 8). These are facts, not a random opinion.
I know Gabi was highly highly consistant and that's a brilliant stat, but, and this is a valid point, there were maybe 6 really good players when Gabi played with her being one of them so if she played well she was always going to get to the last 8 and then it only required one more win. There was Steffi, Monica, Gabi, Martina, Arantxa - then gap - Martinez - then big gap to every one else. Chris was there for a short time in terms of Gabi's career as was Capriati, Novotna and Mary Joe (as a threat that is). Gabi was practically guaranteed a Rd4 spot and then the tournament really started for herself and the other big players. With that stat though you have to think she was in 18GS semis and she ended up winning only 1 title and was she in only 1 other final? Mauresmo was in 8 semis made 3 finals and won 2. Mauresmo seemed to get stopped in a lot of Quarters - again some close battles with a lot of great players such as Venus and Capriati (Version 2)
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #43
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

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Originally Posted by mauresmofan View Post
I know Gabi was highly highly consistant and that's a brilliant stat, but, and this is a valid point, there were maybe 6 really good players when Gabi played with her being one of them so if she played well she was always going to get to the last 8 and then it only required one more win. There was Steffi, Monica, Gabi, Martina, Arantxa - then gap - Martinez - then big gap to every one else. Chris was there for a short time in terms of Gabi's career as was Capriati, Novotna and Mary Joe (as a threat that is). Gabi was practically guaranteed a Rd4 spot and then the tournament really started for herself and the other big players. With that stat though you have to think she was in 18GS semis and she ended up winning only 1 title and was she in only 1 other final? Mauresmo was in 8 semis made 3 finals and won 2. Mauresmo seemed to get stopped in a lot of Quarters - again some close battles with a lot of great players such as Venus and Capriati (Version 2)
Too many inaccuracies here.

First, Gaby did play 3 Grand Slam finals, not 2 as you claim. Won one beating Graf in straight sets, lost the other two against Graf as well both in 3 sets.

Second, as you say, "Mauresmo seemed to get stopped in a lot of Quarters". Well, you are right. It seems. There weren't that many, actually. Apart from that 18/8 huge difference in Grand Slam semifinals, you know what? Sabatini lost in the quarterfinals 10 times, for Mauresmo 9.

Third, regarding low-profile opposition Gaby had to face until 4R tell me about Amelie. Having reached only GS 8 semifinals, in 6 of her QF she faced players out of the top 8 seeds. These were her rivals in a Grand Slam quarterfinal. Good players, but honestly, not a bad or particularly difficult draw at all...

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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #44
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

i think sabatini was a better player, with a marginally better career record

what's disappointing is her record in slams, she hardly had a big win other than over Graf in the 90 US final.

she reached 21 slam semis but only won through to the final when the top seed in her half of the draw lost early, all 3 times that was navratilova

sabatini herself always lost against the higher ranked player in slams apart from her one slam victory

at the aus open she never beat anyone ranked higher than her (3-5 versus top 10)

at the french open she never beat anyone ranked higher than her, other than her debut in 85 when she was seeded 14 (3-8 versus top 10)

at wimbledon she never beat anyone ranked higher than her (2-8 versus top 10)

at the us open she had one win over a player ranked above her (graf 90) (3-10 versus top 10)


she was my favourite player in the early 90's, and given how often she won tournaments, and had big wins on tour, it's significant that at slams she never did, bar one match
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #45
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Re: Who is better: Mauresmo or Sabatini?

my mistake, 18 slam semis in total

so lost 15 and won 3
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