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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 04:04 PM   #121
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
I think you're essentially agreeing with me (just in a different way, and you didn't realize it).

Yes, Petra had great confidence and fire last year during tournaments. She certainly moved better in 2011 (though she did come close in Montreal and parts of Cincy). Agreed.

However, that affects your overall game.

What I noticed (that you called confidence), was Petra had a clarity and decisiveness in her game, that she just didn't have in 2012. Yes!

That clarity and bounce in her step, made Petra serve, returns, ROS, groundies, movement, volley, and changes of pace--hit with confidence and control.

I think the under-mentioned Sydney fold-a-roo to Na, was an early indicator. And obviously the loss, and gazillion missed BP's against Sharapova (which most people point to first), wrote 2011's early demise--I think--in Petra's mind. She probably felt, 'things just weren't going to be the same, as easy, or a carry over from 2011'.

Now, did this lack of confidence, come from (besides her close losses to Masha) lack of fitness, practice/feel, who knows? Cause, despite that, Petra still had opportunities, to win in 2012, even if she wasn't in her best form. That's the heart of a champion.

Let's be honest , Petra folded up her tent--and went home, when serving that last game against Masha at the Australian Open.
Which is probably why I was so depressed after that match...

I hope 2013 can be more of a jumping-off point. I'm sure after her 2011 – which she didn't go into with the amount of hype as 2012 - she had a lot of pressure to perform and defend her ranking points and maintain her YEC form. Vika will probably have that pressure in 2013, with her great 2012, but I have a feeling she'll deal with it slightly better than Petra did this year. So maybe now that she's not dealing with such a great preceding season, she'll be more confident?

I still really, really hope that this year was due to injuries and lack of fitness and a loss of confidence rather than it was, she had a really unusual 2011 and 2012 is her standard.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 04:12 PM   #122
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by netphobia View Post
Which is probably why I was so depressed after that match...

I hope 2013 can be more of a jumping-off point. I'm sure after her 2011 – which she didn't go into with the amount of hype as 2012 - she had a lot of pressure to perform and defend her ranking points and maintain her YEC form. Vika will probably have that pressure in 2013, with her great 2012, but I have a feeling she'll deal with it slightly better than Petra did this year. So maybe now that she's not dealing with such a great preceding season, she'll be more confident?

I still really, really hope that this year was due to injuries and lack of fitness and a loss of confidence rather than it was, she had a really unusual 2011 and 2012 is her standard.
Yeah.

This is why The Martina Nav (or whoever) chatter comes up. Some one like that, would be a good person for Petra to listen to, when dealing with the injuries, expectations, staying in form, the pressure, competition, etc.

Kotyza or a her sports shrink, may or may not give her good advice and preparation in this this aspect. But who would you believe or listen to more--saying this, Martina Nav or your shrink or "Huggy Bear"-like toe nail polish-shopper/coach?
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 04:34 PM   #123
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
I have to disagree. Today i cleared my mind from any prejudgment and re-watched Wimbeldon and Montreal from 2012 and YEC final from 2011(just finished watching it on ES) plus some highlights from different matchups. Petra looked different to me but it was more about her attitude not the game or lack of fitness. Serve % and W\UE ratio actually looked sometimes better this year than last, yes Petra was missing alot of shots close to the lines that she didn't miss last year and played with little less variety in her game, all of this was because of her slower movement. If we didn't focus only on her 2011 game you can see that this year she played with different strategy, i think new strategy was in place to compensate her lack of fitness. All of this for me just little things that always would be different from tournament to tournament. What stood out is absence of fire in her eyes and amnesia for errors, at times she looked like Sanchez i.e letting silly mistakes to throw her rhythm off. Last year at YEC she looked mentally on from start to finish, like she already won the math before it even started. In Montreal she looked bothered and without fire in her eyes only in the middle of the 3rd set she looked like she really wanted to win this but before that only glimpses of her GOAT attitude. My blind believe in Petra and her game on indoor hard didn't go away but i'm genuinely concerned now about her attitude, i hope she's rock solid in mental department and focused only on winning and not letting silly mistakes get in her head.


btw, what really surprised me is how more better, rock solid and hungry Vika became but at the same time she is more impatient now. If they actually meet i'm not sure Petra can win it
Something else I forgot to add:

With all the things, both you and I discussed (my response to you), Petra was better prepared for her irregular play in 2011 than 2012.

In 2011, Petra's confidence and ultimate form, could over come her patchy play/Siesta's against any opponent. That's the difference, between this year and last year. So we can't always try to extrapolate or compare straight stats from that.

Wimbledon, was one of the few tournaments, where Petra literally dominated--from the first match through out. But even there, Petra took middle set siesta's (while still hitting frequent and spectacular winners in between) against both Pironkova and Vika--sandwiched between her first and third set domination of them.

In 2012, Petra's often patchy play against the top 6 players she played against, wasn't good enough. Her lack of fitness, practice and form, didn't give her the play, confidence or stubbornness to over come those patchy Petra siesta's we've come to know so lovingly and frustratingly at times.

So when some of us point out, the Radwanska, Stosur or Vika match at 2011--YEC, or Vika, Pironkova at 2011 Wimby: We forget, that, it was almost like Petra was toying with them/bored, cause when she Pushed Da Pedal To The Mettle, they just couldn't hang with her. Game, Set and Match! It was over!

This year, Petra needed more "mental" and consistency, to overcome the top players, and Petra didn't have either--mind you the Top end play--she had in reserve (many times in spades) last year to overcome those patches against the top players.

That's the difference!!
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 05:46 PM   #124
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
I like that Kotyza didn't put pressure on Petra to defend YEC title, also i have to agree with him that last year was dream and this reality and it wasn't that bad but still disappointing. I'm angry that he didn't recognizes 2011 as benchmark moving forward or he just not saying it. His take on players is disappointment, i thought he was talking about matchups and how Petra would fair against them not some mambo-jumbo, though giving sugar to Li Na is funny.
Agreed.

I understand there may be some Petra Psychology or media double speak/avoidance going on here.....

Nonetheless,I don't understand, why both he and Petra keep declaring--about 2011, "it's/was A Dream".

Like you, I agree Petra and her team should be, trying to build off of 2011 and not use it as some sort of epoch or distant Utopia, despite her relative troubles in 2011.

Sometimes, I wonder if Kotyza is truly over matched at this point? Yeah, he can coach Petra (or she can coach herself) when she's playing well. And I know he can teach her tennis shots. I give him that. But how does he handle the more mental and tactical aspects, approach, and infusion of confidence, when Petra's game, fitness or spirits are patchy?

In a nutshell, how does he handle her overall preparation and confidence? Obviously he did a good to great job in 2011--when little was expected (with maybe the exception at Wimbledon, where she excelled for the 2nd yr in row). But now that the spotlight and pressure is on. How does he (and her Sports Psychologist) handle Petra's total mental, physical, Game, scheduling, improvement, etc., aspects--with people like us, her opponents and the media--constantly watching, waiting, plotting and complaining?

Hopefully, she won't start off the year with any injuries (the infamous Hredecka mild Achilles tear--from a Dec, 2011 Czech league match)--leading to missed tennis training and fitness and its after effects, as she was alleged to have started 2012--into May-July with.

The game is all there (especially with the proper 2011-ish fitness). It just needs to be molded, shaped and cajoled into either very high level consistency, and/or periodic UBER/championship level play, when need be.

The question is: Who's going to Cajole It Out Of Petra, and/or when is it going to come (if ever/again)?

Last edited by Excelscior : Oct 22nd, 2012 at 06:02 PM.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 05:47 PM   #125
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Agreed.

I know there may be some Petra Psychology or media double speak/avoidance going on here...But I don't understand either, why both he and her keep saying "it's/was A Dream". Like you: I agree Petra and her team should be, trying to build off of 2011, and not use it as some sort of epoch or Utopia.

Sometimes, I wonder if Kotyza is truly over matched at this point? Yeah, he can coach Petra (or she can coach herself) when she's playing well. And I know he can teach her tennis shots. But how does he handle the more mental and tactical aspects, approach, and declaration of confidence, when Petra's game, fitness or spirits are patchy?
I think she still didn't hit the wall with Kotyza and his ability to coach but she needs to retool her team with missed pieces like full time fitness coach, nutritionist, hitting partner and stuff. Without these pieces it's hard to be on top of your game for long and be successful. Also i think Petra's lack of junior experience not allowing her to see Kotyza as her elementary coach i.e at some point she have to move on from him to coaches who used to coach top players and theirs expectations, best to do it when she is not in drought but when she is sort of ok but still missing something state. Sort of like Azarenka done or look how Li Na changed when Carlos joined her team, Pova raised her game with new coach too.

Last edited by ShiftyFella : Oct 22nd, 2012 at 06:36 PM.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 06:31 PM   #126
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Cool Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by paulmara View Post
Tomorrow's #WTAChamps OOP starting 5 pm local (10 am EST)

Aga Radwanska vs @Petra_Kvitova
@SerenaWilliams vs @AngeliqueKerber
Maria Sharapova vs Sara Errani

Starting time is at 16:00 in CZ (I doublechecked.).

We have a six hour difference from EST.

We all know what we're going to see from Aga. but consistent.

God knows what to expect from Petra. Anybody's guess.

QPF: Praying for good Petra to show up. Good luck Petra!!!
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 07:06 PM   #127
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Thumbs down Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
I like that Kotyza didn't put pressure on Petra to defend YEC title, also i have to agree with him that last year was dream and this reality and it wasn't that bad but still disappointing. I'm angry that he didn't recognizes 2011 as benchmark moving forward or he just not saying it. His take on players is disappointment, i thought he was talking about matchups and how Petra would fair against them not some mambo-jumbo, though giving sugar to Li Na is funny.
I'm not happy about it. He also didn't put any pressure on her to win at the Olympics and we all saw how that went.

Coach Huggy Bear needs to quit being her security blanket and teach her how to toughen up her attitude and tighten up her game. Her regression from last year is alarming and the way he babies her is holding her back from becoming a dominant player. At some point I hope Cernosek steps in and dumps the lump so Petra can move forward with her game and mental approach.

I appreciate what he did for her in the past but it's pretty clear to see he has maxed out with Petra. If he remains, I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year looks a lot like this year. Her problems this year were a lot more than bad fitness and health. A lot of her problems were between the ears and what good was he for that.

It's also stunning for me to see her team letting her go the final third of the year with no trainer. Even an interim trainer would be better than no trainer. Has her team even noticed that in 2012, fitness matters? All of this year's GS winners were ladies that show up in great condition. It's their starting point. God only knows what shape she will show up in at the AO. So much wasted time when progress could have been being made on getting her into shape for next year. Is it from being cheap, stupid or lazy? What a bunch of assclowns her team is.

QPF: Holding my thumbs and crossing my fingers for a YEC miracle. Go Petra Go!!!
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 07:20 PM   #128
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by Queen Petra Fan View Post
I'm not happy about it. He also didn't put any pressure on her to win at the Olympics and we all saw how that went.

Coach Huggy Bear needs to quit being her security blanket and teach her how to toughen up her attitude and tighten up her game. Her regression from last year is alarming and the way he babies her is holding her back from becoming a dominant player. At some point I hope Cernosek steps in and dumps the lump so Petra can move forward with her game and mental approach.

I appreciate what he did for her in the past but it's pretty clear to see he has maxed out with Petra. If he remains, I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year looks a lot like this year. Her problems this year were a lot more than bad fitness and health. A lot of her problems were between the ears and what good was he for that.

It's also stunning for me to see her team letting her go the final third of the year with no trainer. Even an interim trainer would be better than no trainer. Has her team even noticed that in 2012, fitness matters? All of this year's GS winners were ladies that show up in great condition. It's their starting point. God only knows what shape she will show up in at the AO. So much wasted time when progress could have been being made on getting her into shape for next year. Is it from being cheap, stupid or lazy? What a bunch of assclowns her team is.

QPF: Holding my thumbs and crossing my fingers for a YEC miracle. Go Petra Go!!!
I ask myself this--all the time. And you forgot to throw in a regular or per diem male hitting partner, instead of Desperately Seeking Susan/Na Hook Ups--before important tournaments, or her teenage boyfriend last year.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 07:20 PM   #129
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Thumbs up Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
I ask myself this--all the time (and you forgot to throw in a regular or per diem male hitting partner, instead of desperately trying to "hook up" with Na before important tournaments, or her teenage boyfriend last year).
If the other top players have one, than a player of her ranking should also.
She could easily pay back the investment from the improved results.

The thinking of her team is just mystifying....


QPF: Staying on the Petra rollercoaster even if I develop ulcers.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 07:37 PM   #130
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by Queen Petra Fan View Post
If the other top players have one, than a player of her ranking should also.
She could easily pay back the investment from the improved results.

The thinking of her team is just mystifying....


QPF: Staying on the Petra rollercoaster even if I develop ulcers.
True, but we'd heard Koytyza intimate in the past, that 'Petra doesn't like regimentation or standard drills too much'. So maybe Petra doesn't have a regular--In House or per diem hitting partners, cause Kotyza feels she would get bored (which goes back to your discipline/expectations, Petra management argument)?

And Csersonek, may be part of the problem (unless Petra starts sinking more quickly--affecting his $$) as well. I say that, because I've heard him mention the type of coaching/coaches Petra needed in the past, and it was more the "Huggy Bear" version--like Kotyza. Maybe things have changed?

Obviously, how they see/feel Petra's current and future standards and expectations, may have a lot to do with it. So I agree, they're not acting like they're high (unless they've totally wrote off 2012 and are going to ramp up for 2013). Some how I doubt it (2012 vs 2013 ramp up). But I just had to throw them a bone; even a tattered one.

We'll see?

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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 07:45 PM   #131
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

I was wondering how on earth she got by without having a fitness trainer for pretty much 1/3 of the season...

Petra tweeting that picture with "her team" and it was just her and two other people
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 07:58 PM   #132
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by netphobia View Post
I was wondering how on earth she got by without having a fitness trainer for pretty much 1/3 of the season...

Petra tweeting that picture with "her team" and it was just her and two other people
My guess, is that they followed the regimens (eating, exercise and drills) that Ivanko had established?

The real issue is: If Petra slacked off, who would be there, to make sure/prod her back into proper eating habits, drills and regimens (if Kotyza was a softee)?

Now, I'm going to give Petra the benefit of the doubt, and not assume that she wouldn't want to stay in shape.

As QPC mentioned; I think Petra's issues are not just physical. I think there as much psychological, Strategic-tactical and scheduling/practice, etc., as well.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 08:15 PM   #133
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by Queen Petra Fan View Post
I'm not happy about it. He also didn't put any pressure on her to win at the Olympics and we all saw how that went.

Coach Huggy Bear needs to quit being her security blanket and teach her how to toughen up her attitude and tighten up her game. Her regression from last year is alarming and the way he babies her is holding her back from becoming a dominant player. At some point I hope Cernosek steps in and dumps the lump so Petra can move forward with her game and mental approach.

I appreciate what he did for her in the past but it's pretty clear to see he has maxed out with Petra. If he remains, I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year looks a lot like this year. Her problems this year were a lot more than bad fitness and health. A lot of her problems were between the ears and what good was he for that.

It's also stunning for me to see her team letting her go the final third of the year with no trainer. Even an interim trainer would be better than no trainer. Has her team even noticed that in 2012, fitness matters? All of this year's GS winners were ladies that show up in great condition. It's their starting point. God only knows what shape she will show up in at the AO. So much wasted time when progress could have been being made on getting her into shape for next year. Is it from being cheap, stupid or lazy? What a bunch of assclowns her team is.

QPF: Holding my thumbs and crossing my fingers for a YEC miracle. Go Petra Go!!!
How on earth she lost to Kiri i don't know but all her big loses except to Rena were because of missing confidence in her finishing shots and will to fight(fire in her eyes). I think Kotyza had nothing to do with Olympics but she had this kind of loses outside of Olympics, so he's still somewhat responsible but Petra needs to want it more herself, look at Azarenka, she found her confidence in her fitness and desire to win in knowing that she can achieve great results at the top level and tries harder and harder even if the game didn't going her way, Vika today completely different Vika than she was in 2011 YEC final, this time she's more focused and mentally solid, she wasn't even that secure after her AO and 26-0 run. Until Petra embraces her killer instinct and hunger to win there is nothing Kotyza can do, yes she can be better motivated by him but it must come from Petra more than her coach. Even Li Na herself recognized her mental deficiency and willing to work on it.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 08:26 PM   #134
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Petra tweeting that picture with "her team" and it was just her and two other people


On the other hand, if she wins the YEC, the labour productivity of this 'team' will reach unheard-of levels across WTA.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2012, 09:16 PM   #135
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Re: Petra Kvitova's YEC 2012

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Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
How on earth she lost to Kiri i don't know but all her big loses except to Rena were because of missing confidence in her finishing shots and will to fight(fire in her eyes). I think Kotyza had nothing to do with Olympics but she had this kind of loses outside of Olympics, so he's still somewhat responsible but Petra needs to want it more herself, look at Azarenka, she found her confidence in her fitness and desire to win in knowing that she can achieve great results at the top level and tries harder and harder even if the game didn't going her way, Vika today completely different Vika than she was in 2011 YEC final, this time she's more focused and mentally solid, she wasn't even that secure after her AO and 26-0 run. Until Petra embraces her killer instinct and hunger to win there is nothing Kotyza can do, yes she can be better motivated by him but it must come from Petra more than her coach. Even Li Na herself recognized her mental deficiency and willing to work on it.
All true (not just the bolded part). But what you also have to remember is, a good coach, respected confidante or advisor--can make you believe.

If/when a coach says "your the best"! "And not matter how bad you play; trust me, you'll win"--and it happens. Then the player can believe.

I think a coach definitely did that to/for Andy Murray. Previously, he didn't believe, and played like it.

I think Vika's was a natural maturation (remember she was a head case previously), after several years as a top 10-20 type player. And Petra's publicity going into--year 2012, aided Vika's anonymity as well. Petra's Aussie Open semi-final flub against Sharapova, greatly aided Vika's year and subsequent confidence as well.
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