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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #61
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by @danieln1 View Post
I'm sorry but no way peak Pierce is overrated. When she appeared, no player in history would be able to.win more than 4 games, like the GOATS S.Williams and Graf.
I supposed you are referring to Indian Wells 1999 when it comes to Serena, but if you think that was even a remotedly good Serena then you are insane. If you put Serena of the 2012 Olympics Pierce even at her all time best what do you think happens? Especialy if it is on a faster surface, or heaven forbid a grass court. Pierce would be the one barely winning games.

Regarding Graf even the 94 French match was probably Pierce's best match ever and at best a mediocre match for Graf's standards. Remember Graf's 1994 fell apart after the hot first few months, and she suffered bad losses in all her major events from May onwards. She also lost a set to some bum at that French Open, I think it was some journeywomen named Johnnie Kruger or something like that. Even so it was Pierce's best surface and despite that she is still one of the very best clay courters of all time still probably Graf's worst surface. Try putting them on grass or a fast hard court and peak Pierce could do whatever she liked, even a reasonably good Graf would school her. Graf was killed Pierce many more times than vice versa, 93 U.S Open Pierce wins only 1 game, 95 Paris on fast carpet in Pierce's home court she gets only 4 games, what are you going to say, Pierce played bad in all those while Graf was playing great at Roland Garros 94.

Graf, Serena, and many others have had many more beatdowns of the top players than Pierce has had. Try making a list if you like and see who has the longest. Pierce's are only on slow courts too. On fast courts she very rarely has a big win of any kind, and when she does it is a tight contest. Peak Pierce is insanely overrated. I would favor virtually any player with 3 or more slams at their peak vs her at hers. Pierce holds the all time record of round of 16 defeats in slams which shows most times even in good form she just wasnt good enough vs the top women.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #62
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by mistymore View Post
A quote like that proves just how she is overrated. Her fans definitely overrate her, they make her sound like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Truth is 4 of her 5 slams came in 1997 (and January 1998 which is basically still 1997 as the change hadnt happened yet) when the womens field was extremely weak, on par or perhaps worse than the really weak 2010-2011 and 1982-1984 WTA fields which are easily the worst in the post World War 11 years. That isnt her fault, she capatlized on it, and she had to be playing great tennis to even have the success she did in that field. However she was also an early bloomer who didnt have the physical or mental reserves to last long at the top level. By 18 or 19 she was already on visible decline in addition to struggling with the emergence of the power game, and by 21 she was pretty much finished at the top level and had to retire.

Whether she is overrated, it depends on by whom. Anyone who suggests she is as good or Venus or Henin are definitely overrating her. They have more majors than her for good reason, they are just better players. Those who act like she is so far ahead of Sharapova, Clijsters, or Davenport also overrate her. Davenport actually owned her when both were in their primes from 1998-2000, and given her difficulty with power players she would have had major problems with the other two as well. She is a special player with a uniqute skill set but she isnt the goddess some people potray her as.
Truth is she served for 2 more Slams, truth is that even 1997 was better than the last 4 years of women's tennis, truth is that Davenport, Seles, Graf, Pierce, etc. were much better players than Serena's main rivals over the past few years (Wozniacki, Jankovic, Azarenka, Safina, Bammer) truth is that Graf said that no one could feel the court like she did, truth is that her drop shots are indisputably the best of tennis history, men or women, truth is she made the doubles Grand Slam in 1998, truth is, she routinely defeated big hitters when fit (6-1 6-1, bye Vinas ), truth is Venus' technically pure crap compared to her, truth is... You want me to continue?
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #63
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

I haven't really seen this "genius" that everyone speaks of (at least to its proclaimed level)... but I don't really think she's overrated. It's just that a few people latch on to deluded praise too easily, without really understanding it (and, ofc, they couldn't as it's deluded). But my point is that, often, not even they seem to know why she's this "magical witch on court". Pfft...

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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:35 PM   #64
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Some said that Sharapova has surpassed her already, yet she's even more insignificant than Hingis in front of the aging Renasaur. Just to be annoying, of course.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #65
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by metamorpha View Post
Some said that Sharapova has surpassed her already, yet she's even more insignificant than Hingis in front of the aging Renasaur. Just to be annoying, of course.
Hingis is 6-7 against Serena, Sharapova is something like 2-48 against her
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #66
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Truth is she served for 2 more Slams
Good for her, she still didnt win them. Someone else did. You want a cookie as compensation.

Quote:
truth is that even 1997 was better than the last 4 years of women's tennis
LOL even that isnt easy to say. Coetzer who is like 5 foot 1 reached #3 in 1997, and a 30 year old Novotna who was only ever any threat to win a major title on grass or indoors was the perennial #2.

Quote:
truth is that Davenport, Seles, Graf, Pierce, etc. were much better players than Serena's main rivals over the past few years
Graf didnt exist during that time. She played a few months barely too injured to walk let alone play, then skipped the next 15 month and had major surgery before returning and at age 30 in a 40 year old body winning 2 of her final 3 matches with Hingis and winning her final slam after Hingis. Seles was 250 pounds, in the worst shape of even her post stabbing career due to her dieing father and her depressions over it, and getting owned by people like Sandrine Testud and Irina Spirlea. Pierce began 1997 ranked outside the top 20. Davenport was also about 250 pounds then, and a nobody until 1998 as her slam results prove (yet reached #2 at one point in 1997, doesnt that say it all). No none of these players in their 1997 form were better than Serena's main rivals (Azarenka, Sharapova, Wozniacki, Clijsters) of the last few years, not even close. They couldnt even beat the likes of Kimberly Po, Denisa Chladkova, Iva Majoli (a slam winner that year, lol), Sandrine Testud, Irina Spirlea, and others in slams that year.


Quote:
truth is that Graf said that no one could feel the court like she did, truth is that her drop shots are indisputably the best of tennis history, men or women, truth is she made the doubles Grand Slam in 1998, truth is, she routinely defeated big hitters when fit (6-1 6-1, bye Vinas ), truth is Venus' technically pure crap compared to her, truth is... You want me to continue?
Like others have said you and other Hingis stans help prove this thread title correct.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #67
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Truth is she served for 2 more Slams, truth is that even 1997 was better than the last 4 years of women's tennis, truth is that Davenport, Seles, Graf, Pierce, etc. were much better players than Serena's main rivals over the past few years (Wozniacki, Jankovic, Azarenka, Safina, Bammer) truth is that Graf said that no one could feel the court like she did, truth is that her drop shots are indisputably the best of tennis history, men or women, truth is she made the doubles Grand Slam in 1998, truth is, she routinely defeated big hitters when fit (6-1 6-1, bye Vinas ), truth is Venus' technically pure crap compared to her, truth is... You want me to continue?
Served for 2 more slams?

1997 was better than the last 4 years of women's tennis?

Davenport was beating Hingis on the regular, Seles wasn't the same after the stabbing, Graf was injured in 1997, Pierce was very inconsistent. And let's not pretend that Serena hasn't had to deal with tough competition herself, she's played all these players herself.

When you're hanging onto praise that a player gives your fave as an argument for Hingis's superiority, you know you've lost. And drop shots by themselves doesn't make her 30 times more talented than Serena. Most of her victories against Venus was before Venus had fully matured as a player, when she was still wildly inconsistent.

Hingis's technique certainly didn't help her win more slams than Venus anyway.

Death at you thinking these arguments mean anything.

For your own sake, don't continue.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #68
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Hingis is 6-7 against Serena, Sharapova is something like 2-48 against her
Sharapova is 5-1 vs Davenport, what is Hingis against her? What was Hingis's record against Sharapova, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Henin, and Serena combined when she tried her comeback, something like 1-12. Remember her fans were predicting her to roll to dominance of the womens game in her routine since without Venus and Serena at their peaks anymore it would supposably be easy. Instead she only briefly made it to a bottom end top 10 (before quickly falling back out of that), got owned by Patty Schnyder and her 30 mph shots, lost in slams in only 2 years of appearances to granny near retirement Sugiyama, baby Azarenka, Razanno, Granville, some other nobody, allowed all the top players she had capatilized on in their youth to rectify their final H2Hs with her (Mauresmo, Clijsters, Henin) by continous ownage of her. Most of all she got to struggle to be a top 20 player while seeing a player shorter and skinnier than her dominate the womens game those couple years (Henin), and got to end her career being busted for cocaine use. The accuracy of her fans assessment of her abilities proven once again.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #69
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Well she 'only' has one astounding season no matter how people try to dress it. I don't think she's overrated though, watching highlights from her worst matches and you could see the magic she had on the ball. She just had no real work ethic or had too much ego to put the work in. Talent will only get you so far though which is why she only had one 1997.

So yeah, her fans just overstate her. It;s not that she's overrated.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #70
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Hingis didn't even play Serena when she came back.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #71
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by RenaPova View Post
Served for 2 more slams?

1997 was better than the last 4 years of women's tennis?
What's wrong with this statement? You're not saying that an era where Wozniacki can end 2 years #1 without a slam final to her name is better than 1997-1999 are you? I know that 1997 was weak but to say that late 2010-2011 is better than 1997-1999 just because players lost to Hingis is just absurd :lol;

I know a lot of what Sammo says is delusional but try to work around it.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:48 PM   #72
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Hingis didn't even play Serena when she came back.
You are right, she came back at a time the womens game was virtually missing Serena and Venus, and still got owned by basically the WTA second tier keeping the seat warm for Williams returns of Henin, Sharapova, Mauresmo, and Clijsters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad[le]y. View Post
What's wrong with this statement? You're not saying that an era where Wozniacki can end 2 years #1 without a slam final to her name is better than 1997-1999 are you? I know that 1997 was weak but to say that late 2010-2011 is better than 1997-1999 just because players lost to Hingis is just absurd :lol;

I know a lot of what Sammo says is delusional but try to work around it.
If 1997 was better it was only because of Hingis herself. Obviously Hingis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wozniacki, nobody would deny that. However apart from both, the womens game was probably equally bad both times.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #73
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

On TennisForum, yes. However, she was a great talent.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #74
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Er, no. Martina is not overrated. In her era she had more ability and finesse than anyone - a joy to watch.
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Old Sep 25th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #75
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad[le]y. View Post
What's wrong with this statement? You're not saying that an era where Wozniacki can end 2 years #1 without a slam final to her name is better than 1997-1999 are you? I know that 1997 was weak but to say that late 2010-2011 is better than 1997-1999 just because players lost to Hingis is just absurd :lol;

I know a lot of what Sammo says is delusional but try to work around it.
The average level of players in the top 20-30 in 2010-2011 was MUCH higher than back in 1997.
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