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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 06:54 AM   #286
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Oops ! didn't see that no.4 came out all jumbled.

What I was trying to say was that, she didn't have to face all the struggles that other players her age went through, which gave them a longer career viz-a-viz her's. Eg- Vee, Ree, Kim and even Davenport.

In addition to this, Martina Navratilova, who was commenting on her match in 1996 , said she had approached Hingis and had advised her to adopt a stricter physical regime, but Hingis told her that it wasn't her style and that she much rather play matches as a part of her preparation.

Now this might give us an insight, into why she burned up faster than the others.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 09:27 AM   #287
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hingisGOAT View Post
This is the biggest troll thread ever All the Hingis haters lined up like ducks

BTW Graf's rival was stabbed, Serena's best rivals retired in their early 20s (THREE OF THEM!), Henin vultured in the absence of WS, Sharapova's last two Slams are among the most vultured Slams of all time, Clijsters gets tons of shit for her competition etc. Basically it is rare for all top players to be healthy all the time, and a record of 6 straight AO finals, 5 straight RG semis, 5 straight USO semis, 2 YEC titles, years at #1 ranking, and the best Tier I record of this entire generation speaks for itself. That she only has 5 Slams with records like those is absolutely ASTONISHING, and a clear mark of an insanely gifted underachiever.

So I don't at all understand how someone could POSSIBLY say Hingis is "overrated" after looking up her accomplishments unless they are a delusional, obsessed hater. This thread has plenty of those for sure It's also not as if anyone, even Hingis fans, rate her athleticism or work ethic at the same level as her contemporaries. But that really proves my point; despite being shorter, weaker, lazier, less motivated, and less interested than all Slam winners in her generation, Hingis' career is more accomplished (or equally/comparably accomplished) than all of them except Serena. That alone proves her immense tennis talent.

Also, RDV or whatever that sad troll is named: that was the best match Serena has ever played in her entire career, and still Hingis managed to win five games which is more than players like Maria, Justine, Venus, Jennifer, Azarenka etc. can say, as they all have suffered more embarrassing losses to a Serena playing only half that level. I fail to see how one loss to a zoned-out Serena means Hingis was "over-powered" on a consistent basis. After RG 99, where Hingis served for match:

W99 -- tank
USO 99 -- Hingis choked 2 set points w/easy errors, would have had vast momentum in 3rd set against tired, inexperienced Rena
AO 2000 -- Hingis WAS overpowered for half the match, then battled to a TB, once again had momentum but UEd the match away
RG 2000 -- Hingis implodes in UEs against player she owns
W 2000 -- in words of Davenport, "I've never seen Martina play so passive", despite this she takes Venus to 4-6 in third set on grass
USO 2000 -- Hingis HUGE choke on smash to give 2 MPs, then hits tons of UEs to lose match
AO 2001 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets
RG 2001 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets
W 2001 -- injured
USO 2001 -- Serena plays best match of career, making 100% of first serves after first couple games
AO 2002 -- Hingis hit more winners and errors than opponent, once again implodes in errors to lose (bad fitness)
RG & W 2002 -- DNP
USO 2002 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets

So the only matches where it is arguable that Hingis was overpowered was AO 2000 and USO 2001, although nobody was beating her in-the-zone opponents on those days, so to me that is not being "overpowered", it's just running into someone playing great tennis.
You were doing so well..

Up until you called me a "sad troll" for legitimately rebutting this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hingisGOAT View Post
So now Hingis was "waxed shamelessly" from 1999-2002? Seriously? She made a ton of GS semis and finals in that time, and almost every single match she lost was competitive, in fact many of them were chokes. This shows a decline and a mental weakness on Hingis' part (along with stamina issues IMO) -- most of those losses were the result of her own decline in form.

And once again, almost every time Hingis lost a match, EVER, it was to a more powerful opponent. Such are the breaks when you're 5'6 and hit 90mph first serves. That does NOT mean Hingis was over-powered -- there are other ways to lose a tennis match, you know. In fact I can't think of a single match from 96-01 where someone's power was totally uncontrollable for Martina, or made her cough up a bunch of moonballs that barely clipped the net. Never happened, because Hingis' ability to fight off someone's power was the absolute LEAST of her problems. For the millionth time I'll repeat a point nobody has refuted, because it makes total sense: it was Hingis' own play that cost her -- she was generally less imaginative, more error prone, and mentally weaker as the years went on. Her h2h records show it was more effective to try to outlast Hingis and run her around than it was to try and blast the ball by her. Her fitness was a HUGE issue, and if the match was close enough, Hingis would often choke.
So after I stated that Hingis was not overrated, and that her accomplishments and achievements spoke for themselves...
...and even praised her many times...
I'm now reduced to the level of a "sad troll".

But that's okay, because I still appreciate your passion for your fav, and still believe that she made the most of her abilities and earned her place in history.

To some (not all) Hingis fans & supporters....
1) If fans of tennis do not agree with your over-inflated assessments, that does not make them a "sad troll".
2) If tennis fans present evidence that legitimately rebuts your unsubstantiated contentions, that does not make them a "sad troll", or even a troll.
3) And if fans of other players laud the achievements and accomplishments of your fav, that certainly does not make them a "sad troll".

I apologize for hurting your feelings with that vid example, hingisGOAT.
I suppose that I could have been more 'delicate'.
However, and to be precise, hingisGOAT...
I just do not deal well with overly dramatic, overly embellishing, posters.
That's all.
*my last post in this thread*
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Last edited by RVD : Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:34 AM.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #288
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Matías. View Post
I agree with many of these, also Serena is just a terrible match up for Martina
Where did you get this from? Of course, Serena is a difficult opponent for Legend but Legend had her way of coping with Serena.

She rallied Serena to her BH corner with deeper, higher balls which forced Serena to either rally back crosscourt or go for a low percentage shot DTL.

A lot of the impressions Serena made in rallies were early on due to a huge return or a huge serve. Legend could rally with Serena and get her into awkward positions to outplay her.

I'd rather Legend play Serena than play Davenport.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 10:57 AM   #289
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by NashaMasha View Post
Than Woz is greater than Venus, Arantxa, Jennifer and Kim combined
Comparing a player whose weeks and years at No. 1 are backed by 5 slams and additional 7 slam finals with a player whose No. 1 ranking is backed by one US Open final?

Good job.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #290
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitten View Post
Where did you get this from? Of course, Serena is a difficult opponent for Legend but Legend had her way of coping with Serena.

She rallied Serena to her BH corner with deeper, higher balls which forced Serena to either rally back crosscourt or go for a low percentage shot DTL.

A lot of the impressions Serena made in rallies were early on due to a huge return or a huge serve. Legend could rally with Serena and get her into awkward positions to outplay her.

I'd rather Legend play Serena than play Davenport.
Oh im not so sure about this. Rallying to the backhand...hitting higher balls...she could do that against davenport and induce errors. Just watch their IW match from 2000. Serena at her peak didn't really have a weakness, unlike davenport, who's poor movement could be exposed (easier said than done) and the way she would tighten-up at important parts of a match.

Although I kinda agree with you...she could rally with serena...anybody for that matter, as long as she's able to hit a decent serve/return and keep the ball deep. But one short ball and she'll be on the defensive.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #291
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi1987 View Post
Oops ! didn't see that no.4 came out all jumbled.

What I was trying to say was that, she didn't have to face all the struggles that other players her age went through, which gave them a longer career viz-a-viz her's. Eg- Vee, Ree, Kim and even Davenport.

In addition to this, Martina Navratilova, who was commenting on her match in 1996 , said she had approached Hingis and had advised her to adopt a stricter physical regime, but Hingis told her that it wasn't her style and that she much rather play matches as a part of her preparation.

Now this might give us an insight, into why she burned up faster than the others.
Oh, it wasn't a problem. I had gotten the point. I was just looking for where the separation would be, and didn't see it.

Interesting insight from Martina to Martina.

I'm sure Martina has approached Petra Kvitova as well (cause she's done it several times on the air). She would really like to work with Petra. However, Martina says, Petra K. doesn't get back to her either.

Thanks.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #292
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

As for the Serena match-up, I agree with Smitten that Hingis would attack her backhand from beginning to end. Serena could end points immediately with her serve, return, and potentially her forehand -- so attacking Serena's backhand was the only way for Martina to really work the point. Of course it helps that Hingis' backhand was the best in the game; she had a lot of options with that shot, INCLUDING a flat powerful drive.

Hingis preferred to play Venus instead of Serena because Venus was much more of a ball-basher. Martina basically said this herself. Although her h2h records against them are virtually identical, she had a LOT of matches against Venus where she absolutely crushed her, and honestly most of her losses to Venus were matches she knows she should have won, often times blowing a big lead.

That being said Hingis doesn't get enough credit for handling Serena. Virtually all of their matches were played after Hingis won her last Slam, and she had a record of 6-4 against Serena before she completely stopped being a top player/contender for majors and started strugging with form/injuries/retirement. That's actually a fantastic record against Serena, and probably the best record of anyone who has played her more than a handful of times.

Hingis' strengths against Rena were her fantastic return of serve, ability to out-last Serena in rallies, her variety and net-play to disrupt Serena's rythym, and her superior backhand. Serena was a much better player back then IMO, she is worse now but playing much weaker competition. Her movement is 50% of what it used to be and her groundstrokes are FAR less explosive. Current day Serena would actually be a great match-up for prime Hingis.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #293
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Where did you get this from?
History.
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Old Sep 29th, 2012, 04:11 AM   #294
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

A 20 page thread for a player who has been retired since 2007.

Martina, you've still got it!
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Old Sep 29th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #295
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by mattjallen View Post
A 20 page thread for a player who has been retired since 2007.

Martina, you've still got it!
We may wait a long time until we see another player excelling at such a young age and leaving such a long-lasting impression.

Seriously, are there any parents around the world who can compete with the tennis-obsession displayed by Martina's mom? I doubt that.
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Old Sep 29th, 2012, 02:16 PM   #296
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

happy birthday martina hingis

post your great comments on this official twitter and facebook !!

https://www.facebook.com/#!/MartinaHingisOfficial
https://twitter.com/mhingis

she looks so young for 32 years no ?
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Old Sep 29th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #297
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
We may wait a long time until we see another player excelling at such a young age and leaving such a long-lasting impression.

Seriously, are there any parents around the world who can compete with the tennis-obsession displayed by Martina's mom? I doubt that.
Certainly all due credit does go to Melanie for bringing her "gifted" child to high achievement and Martina always "thanked her mother" in her acceptance speeches all the time but I can remember reading about how in the early days Martina was entered into "older" tournaments and one time when she was 7 years old she broke some fingers in her right hand so she switched to her left hand and finished the game. Surely at 7 years old Melanie would have taken her daughter out of the court..but apparently that didn't happen. What should have happened in her later years was "new coaching" should have been put into place, there came a point when Martina would not listen to Melanie so she really "needed" to hear a different voice so she could focus on improvement in her game. Sadly that didn't happen and we can only guess at the results if it had.

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Old Sep 29th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #298
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by tennisfan5 View Post
43 singles titles, 37 doubles titles, 5 singles slams, 209 weeks at #1 etc etc

man, she sucks.
And she did all of this before she hit 22 years old.
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Old Sep 29th, 2012, 03:00 PM   #299
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by barmaid View Post
I can remember reading about how in the early days Martina was entered into "older" tournaments and one time when she was 7 years old she broke some fingers in her right hand so she switched to her left hand and finished the game. Surely at 7 years old Melanie would have taken her daughter out of the court..but apparently that didn't happen.
This happened during one of her last Czech tournaments before moving to Switzerland (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3407900248.html):

"At the age of seven, she won a tournament for nine-year-olds playing left-handed due to a broken finger on her right hand."

Melanie was very tough to her, sth like "You're gonna be a big star whether you like it or not"

But make no mistake, they have a great relationship now and I think that looking back they're proud on what they achieved together.
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Old Sep 29th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #300
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
This happened during one of her last Czech tournaments before moving to Switzerland (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3407900248.html):

"At the age of seven, she won a tournament for nine-year-olds playing left-handed due to a broken finger on her right hand."

Melanie was very tough to her, sth like "You're gonna be a big star whether you like it or not"

But make no mistake, they have a great relationship now and I think that looking back they're proud on what they achieved together.
Wow did not know this!! Martina is sooo talented it's not even funny. Loved some of her 1 handed backhands that she used to use too back in her heydays
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