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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 03:58 PM   #16
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Re: Race and Media

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Originally Posted by Malcolm X View Post
at kelly 'looking better' over the years and having more european features - thats probably got something to do with the plastic surgery she got to look European
I think she always looked more European compared to Beyonce. If she's had any work done then well done to her for keeping it simple and hiding it so well because I don't see much change. I think she looks better because she grew her hair!
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #17
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Re: Race and Media

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Originally Posted by Miss Knowles View Post
Kelly could NEVER give you this:

No, Kelly couldn't, but at least 5 women in my sister's Zumba class could.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #18
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Re: Race and Media

It must be the fact that I am European but I have a certain difficulty grasping the "white supremacy" thing started in the off-court pictures thread. I myself consider Serena to have a better-looking face than Maria, while both their bodies are not something I'd rate in the more positive spectrum of the female body-beauty, if this makes any sense

Anyway, I think beauty was constantly shown to be a thing of symmetry and to this everyone adds a certain expectation of expression, liveliness, charm.

The thing though is that many people just don't understand that we grow into liking features we are more used to see around us, so it is normal a European risks to find a European face more appealing than an Asian or African. A person of African decent will more likely find pleasing a face more typically African and so on. Of course, this is not a rule but some kind of a trend. I notice it with myself too and it's not because media told me so, nor it's a white supremacy feeling inside me or my culture.

With this I am NOT saying that media, past history and probably even personal complexes don't play a role. This too I have experienced. People in my country get fatter while they get richer as a whole. The newer generation tends to like more juicy bodies while my generation was more into slim women. And this is, to me, the consequence of both them being used to see fuller bodies AND the media constantly expressing messages and personal experiences like.. fuller women are sexier/fatter women are normal and slim=anorexia.

Sorry for the long post but it's an interesting subject. I don't know how it is in the States, I even find shocking how often people have to declare their ethnicity/race. I even saw a college form including a place to indicate one's ethnicity . So maybe this subject is indeed much more race-based in the USA. I certainly can see how the media showing mainly white models can influence the perception of beauty but I don't find truthful the white supremacy idea as an explanation.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 10:44 PM   #19
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Re: Race and Media

Quote:
Originally Posted by pla View Post
It must be the fact that I am European but I have a certain difficulty grasping the "white supremacy" thing started in the off-court pictures thread. I myself consider Serena to have a better-looking face than Maria, while both their bodies are not something I'd rate in the more positive spectrum of the female body-beauty, if this makes any sense

Anyway, I think beauty was constantly shown to be a thing of symmetry and to this everyone adds a certain expectation of expression, liveliness, charm.

The thing though is that many people just don't understand that we grow into liking features we are more used to see around us, so it is normal a European risks to find a European face more appealing than an Asian or African. A person of African decent will more likely find pleasing a face more typically African and so on. Of course, this is not a rule but some kind of a trend. I notice it with myself too and it's not because media told me so, nor it's a white supremacy feeling inside me or my culture.

With this I am NOT saying that media, past history and probably even personal complexes don't play a role. This too I have experienced. People in my country get fatter while they get richer as a whole. The newer generation tends to like more juicy bodies while my generation was more into slim women. And this is, to me, the consequence of both them being used to see fuller bodies AND the media constantly expressing messages and personal experiences like.. fuller women are sexier/fatter women are normal and slim=anorexia.

Sorry for the long post but it's an interesting subject. I don't know how it is in the States, I even find shocking how often people have to declare their ethnicity/race. I even saw a college form including a place to indicate one's ethnicity . So maybe this subject is indeed much more race-based in the USA. I certainly can see how the media showing mainly white models can influence the perception of beauty but I don't find truthful the white supremacy idea as an explanation.
That's a nice, balanced post. I agree with most of what you said. I think there have been studies showing that people tend to be attracted to people who look like them - not just in terms of race but actually people with similar features. That sounds a bit narcissistic and maybe even a little weird but apparently, in biological or genetic terms, it shows that you are well-suited to procreate together and that your offspring may even be less likely to suffer defects and could be healthier or more robust. This theory makes me wonder if the rule still applies to homosexuals, who can't procreate without some assistance! Do gay people still have that same kind of instinctual attraction to people that are similar to them?

I think Americans tend to see things in terms of ethnicity whereas Europeans tend to see things in terms of nationality. For me, anyone who speaks with an Irish accent is Irish, regardless of their ethnicity or even their legal status. An accent shows that you've grown up here or at least spent a significant amount of time here and become part of Irish society by engaging in it enough to have an accent!

As for stating your ethnicity on a college form, maybe it has to do with positive discrimination? I think some American colleges even have quotas that they try to fill because they want their study body to be X% Asian, Y% African-American, Z% Caucasian etc. Though, obviously, I'm not the best person to ask about this...but my bf has mentioned some things like this.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 04:06 AM   #20
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Re: Race and Media

Quote:
Originally Posted by pla View Post
It must be the fact that I am European but I have a certain difficulty grasping the "white supremacy" thing started in the off-court pictures thread. I myself consider Serena to have a better-looking face than Maria, while both their bodies are not something I'd rate in the more positive spectrum of the female body-beauty, if this makes any sense

Anyway, I think beauty was constantly shown to be a thing of symmetry and to this everyone adds a certain expectation of expression, liveliness, charm.

The thing though is that many people just don't understand that we grow into liking features we are more used to see around us, so it is normal a European risks to find a European face more appealing than an Asian or African. A person of African decent will more likely find pleasing a face more typically African and so on. Of course, this is not a rule but some kind of a trend. I notice it with myself too and it's not because media told me so, nor it's a white supremacy feeling inside me or my culture.

With this I am NOT saying that media, past history and probably even personal complexes don't play a role. This too I have experienced. People in my country get fatter while they get richer as a whole. The newer generation tends to like more juicy bodies while my generation was more into slim women. And this is, to me, the consequence of both them being used to see fuller bodies AND the media constantly expressing messages and personal experiences like.. fuller women are sexier/fatter women are normal and slim=anorexia.

Sorry for the long post but it's an interesting subject. I don't know how it is in the States, I even find shocking how often people have to declare their ethnicity/race. I even saw a college form including a place to indicate one's ethnicity . So maybe this subject is indeed much more race-based in the USA. I certainly can see how the media showing mainly white models can influence the perception of beauty but I don't find truthful the white supremacy idea as an explanation.
yup that's all true. I remember reading in my psychology text book about. Very interesting. I wish I still had it.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 05:05 AM   #21
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Re: Race and Media

Quote:
Originally Posted by pla View Post
It must be the fact that I am European but I have a certain difficulty grasping the "white supremacy" thing started in the off-court pictures thread. I myself consider Serena to have a better-looking face than Maria, while both their bodies are not something I'd rate in the more positive spectrum of the female body-beauty, if this makes any sense

Anyway, I think beauty was constantly shown to be a thing of symmetry and to this everyone adds a certain expectation of expression, liveliness, charm.

The thing though is that many people just don't understand that we grow into liking features we are more used to see around us, so it is normal a European risks to find a European face more appealing than an Asian or African. A person of African decent will more likely find pleasing a face more typically African and so on. Of course, this is not a rule but some kind of a trend. I notice it with myself too and it's not because media told me so, nor it's a white supremacy feeling inside me or my culture.
Well, you must know that white supremacy is not something that was created by White Americans. The whole idea that white people are superior to all others morally, intellectually, aesthetically, etc. came from Europe itself, during the Enlightenment.

In re: the bolded, this is simply not true for all human beings. Yes, for most people, what you find most attractive is based on cultural ideals. You are attracted to what you are enculturated to believe is attractive. But how does this explain West African and Indian people who bleach their skin to look white, and black children in the United States who believe that blacks are uglier and more dangerous than whites at only 3-4 years old?



As a European yes, you may find Europeans more attractive because you see them most often. But you must understand that all things that have a cultural basis operate within sets of power relations. Thus, as a white, European person, your cultural ideals are expressed the loudest and transmitted to people all across the world, because white Europeans have the bulk of the wealth and power in the world. Most white people take this for granted, and assume that their own cultural dispositions are natural for all human beings, but this is not true. White people see themselves and like their own features because their beauty is reinforced everywhere (in the media, etc.), non-white people do not get the same reinforcement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post
That's a nice, balanced post. I agree with most of what you said. I think there have been studies showing that people tend to be attracted to people who look like them - not just in terms of race but actually people with similar features. That sounds a bit narcissistic and maybe even a little weird but apparently, in biological or genetic terms, it shows that you are well-suited to procreate together and that your offspring may even be less likely to suffer defects and could be healthier or more robust. This theory makes me wonder if the rule still applies to homosexuals, who can't procreate without some assistance! Do gay people still have that same kind of instinctual attraction to people that are similar to them?

I think Americans tend to see things in terms of ethnicity whereas Europeans tend to see things in terms of nationality. For me, anyone who speaks with an Irish accent is Irish, regardless of their ethnicity or even their legal status. An accent shows that you've grown up here or at least spent a significant amount of time here and become part of Irish society by engaging in it enough to have an accent!

As for stating your ethnicity on a college form, maybe it has to do with positive discrimination? I think some American colleges even have quotas that they try to fill because they want their study body to be X% Asian, Y% African-American, Z% Caucasian etc. Though, obviously, I'm not the best person to ask about this...but my bf has mentioned some things like this.
Again, I must point out that you are committing the "common sense" fallacy, based on your own life and experiences. The natural human biological and sexual instinct is to look for sexual partners that will diversify their gene pool, not look for people who look just like them. This is why all human cultures have the incest taboo and most cultures have historically practiced partner sharing across different groups, because it increases the diversity of the gene pool and offspring will have shared characteristics of multiple genetic clusters, which increases offspring's ability to adapt to different environmental stresses. Throughout history, people who look extremely different have migrated, had sex with eachother and produced offspring, despite their different backgrounds. It was not until European scientific racism (white supremacy) that humans began to see themselves in rigidly, racial terms, and assign characteristics to those races which affects how attracted you are to individuals of different backgrounds.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 12:23 PM   #22
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Re: Race and Media

Thought I'd just quickly share what I just saw on this Australia FoxSports SportsCentre type show, they talked about Stosur, and then Serena saying she was the favourite...

Then Sam Kekovich said that "Serena better watch out doing her gang dance or crib thing" and it was pretty

No doubt in my mind it was a racist comment.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #23
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Re: Race and Media

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Originally Posted by HipsterPova View Post
Thought I'd just quickly share what I just saw on this Australia FoxSports SportsCentre type show, they talked about Stosur, and then Serena saying she was the favourite...

Then Sam Kekovich said that "Serena better watch out doing her gang dance or crib thing" and it was pretty

No doubt in my mind it was a racist comment.
Almost as bad as your comment about Serena eating watermelon and KFC.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #24
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Re: Race and Media

Honestly though, and off-topic, who doesn't like watermelon and fried chicken? They are delicious.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 06:12 PM   #25
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Re: Race and Media

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipsterPova View Post
Thought I'd just quickly share what I just saw on this Australia FoxSports SportsCentre type show, they talked about Stosur, and then Serena saying she was the favourite...

Then Sam Kekovich said that "Serena better watch out doing her gang dance or crib thing" and it was pretty

No doubt in my mind it was a racist comment.
I don't understand how people just say these things on national TV.

Completely unesecary.
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Honestly though, and off-topic, who doesn't like watermelon and fried chicken? They are delicious.
I just had friend chicken for the first time a couple months ago and it was amazing! Buffalo wings are the best though.

I also love watermelon but I can't stand the sound of people eating it. Makes me want to shoot myself.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 06:38 PM   #26
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Re: Race and Media

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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Honestly though, and off-topic, who doesn't like watermelon and fried chicken? They are delicious.
IKR. And mayonnaise on ribs.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 07:28 PM   #27
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Re: Race and Media

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IKR. And mayonnaise on ribs.
I've never really like mayonnaise.

In Russia they sell mayonnaise in a bag. So weird, but it's cool.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #28
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Re: Race and Media

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I've never really like mayonnaise.

In Russia they sell mayonnaise in a bag. So weird, but it's cool.
Mayonnaise has its uses, but on grilled and bbq'd meats isn't one of 'em.
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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 09:28 PM   #29
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Re: Race and Media

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Almost as bad as your comment about Serena eating watermelon and KFC.
Well hey there Mr White Tears.

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Old Aug 29th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #30
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Re: Race and Media

Oh and I, like most people, do love watermelon and KFC.
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