[Number19]

Since I couldn't bring myself to continuing of the hijacking of the off-court photo thread to respond there:

Originally Posted by JN

Beyonce's looks are a-dime-a-dozen. Kelly Rowland's beauty runs rings around Beyonce's, but guess who they made the star. Yes, MADE.

I think Beyonce's starpower over Kelly's is more about charisma and being a better singer (not that the latter seems to matter much in pop music theses days.) Something however can definitely be said that her lighter skin, dying her hair lighter probably helped. Even latin singers Shakira and Jennifer Lopez have benefited from this in America's predominately white culture.

alright, go...

[JN]

Originally Posted by Number19

Since I couldn't bring myself to continuing of the hijacking of the off-court photo thread to respond there:



I think Beyonce's starpower over Kelly's is more about charisma and being a better singer (not that the latter seems to matter much in pop music theses days.) Something however can definitely be said that her lighter skin, dying her hair lighter probably helped. Even latin singers Shakira and Jennifer Lopez have benefited from this in America's predominately white culture.

alright, go...

I won't say much on this subject, because it's not one I'm particularly interested in, but...

Bey was groomed for the lead role and when others threatened to usurp it (LaToya & LaTavia) they were kicked out of the group.

[NashaP]

Im surprised so many think Kelly is more beautiful than Beyonce. Beyonce's looks are definitely above average. Even without makeup, she looks stunning and you definitely won't see girls like her walking down the street. Kelly's looks are average at best.

[moby]

Beyonce sings better and looks better, and has the machine behind her.
This is independent of her skin colour.

[StarDuvallGrant]

Originally Posted by NashaP

Im surprised so many think Kelly is more beautiful than Beyonce. Beyonce's looks are definitely above average. Even without makeup, she looks stunning and you definitely won't see girls like her walking down the street. Kelly's looks are average at best.

The idea that you would be surprised any number of people find Kelly more beautiful is a problem in itself. What also is the average beauty?

With the problematic posts that started this discussion in General Messages, there is beauty in Serena as there is in Maria and likewise with Kelly and Beyonce. Serena may not fit a European standard of beauty but that does not mean she's ugly and as with Kelly, this confusion on how anyone could find them pretty or even more attractive han someone else shows problems particularly with racial perception of beauty when the standaed is European let alone colorism within the black community. Being an Asian female, I've experienced and seen stuff that took me well into my college years to accept my own and others beauty so this is a serious issue. One which ticks me off when bullshit about looks is brought up by simplistic idiots.

[Rolling-Thunder]

Originally Posted by Number19

Since I couldn't bring myself to continuing of the hijacking of the off-court photo thread to respond there:

I think Beyonce's starpower over Kelly's is more about charisma and being a better singer (not that the latter seems to matter much in pop music theses days.) Something however can definitely be said that her lighter skin, dying her hair lighter probably helped. Even latin singers Shakira and Jennifer Lopez have benefited from this in America's predominately white culture.

alright, go...

This is not restricted to the USA. The same can be found in South America, where the fixation on the lighter complexion does benefit people like Shakira. Not that she would not be successful. But when you have a singer who is a light skinned latina, surrounded by all black/moreno/morena backup singers and dancers, then you clearly have an issue (though unspoken) that remains. The below still prevails in Hollywood and the music industry.

Brown paper bag test
The phrase “brown paper bag test” has traditionally been used by African Americans throughout the twentieth and twenty-first century with reference to a ritual once practiced by certain African-American sororities and fraternities who would not let anyone into the group whose skin tone was darker than a paper bag.[12] Also known as a paper bag party, these lighter-skinned social circles reflected an idea of exclusion and exclusiveness. The notion of the “paper bag” has carried a complex and obscure meaning in black communities for many decades.[12] The reason for the usage of the "paper bag" is because the color of the paper bag is considered to be the "center" marker of blackness that distinguishes “light skin” from “dark skin” on a continuum stretching infinitely from black to white.[12] Also, the brown paper bag is believed to act as a benchmark for certain levels of acceptance and inclusion.[12] Spike Lee's film School Daze satirized this practice at historically black colleges and universities.[13] Along with the "paper bag test," guidelines for acceptance among the lighter ranks included the "comb test" and “pencil test,” which tested the coarseness of one's hair, and the "flashlight test," which tested a person's profile to make sure their features measured up or were close enough to those of the Caucasian race.[12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrim..._on_skin_color

[le bon vivant]

A serious discussion of this issue predicated on whether Beyonce is prettier than Kelly? No.

Can we have a real discussion about this and not that fluff? The thread should be titled "White Supremacy and its effects on standards of Beauty", not Race and Media.

[kwilliams]

I always thought Kelly was by some measure the least attactive memeber of DC. I though Beyonce, Kelly, La Toya, La Tavia and Farrah were all more attractive. However, Kelly looks a lot better than she used to. Kelly might be darker but I'd say her features are a bit more European than Beyonce's.

Anyway, no one was going to be a bigger star than Beyonce. She had the drive, the confidence, the ego, much of the talent and she had the right people behind her. Plus she made sure she did the bulk of the singing. Remember how Michelle only got three lines to sing in "Emotion" but it was one of the songs that was supposed to show that they were a "group." I always loved Michelle. She had such an interesting voice, really quite unique. She was beautiful but in a simple, understated, girl-next-door kinda way. She always seemed very nice too. Although, I've since heard she's a bit ghetto and has been known to start fights in bars/clubs!

I loved Beyonce in the DC days but started to hate her because I couldn't ignore how the group was basically "hers."

[ampers&]

Originally Posted by LBV.

A serious discussion of this issue predicated on whether Beyonce is prettier than Kelly? No.

Can we have a real discussion about this and not that fluff? The thread should be titled "White Supremacy and its effects on standards of Beauty", not Race and Media.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Shall we start with the multinational corporations that profit from a plethora of skin whitening products (including nipple and anus whitening creams) because of the prejudices against darker skinned people in countries across the world (because lighter skin is frequently seen as being the standard of beauty and even impacts job availability in countries like the Philippines, Thailand, and Indonesia)?

[Jalil Sherman]

Originally Posted by kwilliams

I always thought Kelly was by some measure the least attactive memeber of DC. I though Beyonce, Kelly, La Toya, La Tavia and Farrah were all more attractive. However, Kelly looks a lot better than she used to. Kelly might be darker but I'd say her features are a bit more European than Beyonce's.

Anyway, no one was going to be a bigger star than Beyonce. She had the drive, the confidence, the ego, much of the talent and she had the right people behind her. Plus she made sure she did the bulk of the singing. Remember how Michelle only got three lines to sing in "Emotion" but it was one of the songs that was supposed to show that they were a "group." I always loved Michelle. She had such an interesting voice, really quite unique. She was beautiful but in a simple, understated, girl-next-door kinda way. She always seemed very nice too. Although, I've since heard she's a bit ghetto and has been known to start fights in bars/clubs!

I loved Beyonce in the DC days but started to hate her because I couldn't ignore how the group was basically "hers."

at kelly 'looking better' over the years and having more european features - thats probably got something to do with the plastic surgery she got to look European

[Jalil Sherman]

Originally Posted by Miching~Mallecho

Took the words right out of my mouth. Shall we start with the multinational corporations that profit from a plethora of skin whitening products (including nipple and anus whitening creams) because of the prejudices against darker skinned people in countries across the world (because lighter skin is frequently seen as being the standard of beauty and even impacts job availability in countries like the Philippines, Thailand, and Indonesia)?

you say it like its brand new information. Did you just learn this with your newfound worldliness and consequent authority over all things THE PHILLiPINES

[Wigglytuff]

racism is dead, it died when MLK walked on a bridge and freed the slaves. Now we have a socialist Kenya president who is not an American and if anyone mentions race they are a reverse racist (while racism is dead, reverse racism is alive and well.) #whattheyteachyouatfox

Did I miss anything?

[JN]

Originally Posted by Wigglytuff

racism is dead, it died when MLK walked on a bridge and freed the slaves. Now we have a socialist Kenya president who is not an American and if anyone mentions race they are a reverse racist (while racism is dead, reverse racism is alive and well.) #whattheyteachyouatfox

Did I miss anything?

Knock. Knock. Knock. Mrs. Bachmann, are you in there?

[ampers&]

Originally Posted by Malcolm X

you say it like its brand new information. Did you just learn this with your newfound worldliness and consequent authority over all things THE PHILLiPINES

Do you have anything to add or will you continue trying to bait me into arguing with you like you do in every thread?

[Wigglytuff]

Originally Posted by JN

Knock. Knock. Knock. Mrs. Bachmann, are you in there?

Lol!!! It's not just her, some of our friends from the politics thread share this view. Only they are dead serious