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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #4441
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
That's true. If we forget about the beat down in set 1. Caro started playing better from 1-6, 2-1 and 0-40 .. still it had the air of inevitability about it. At least imho. But it was really good to see Caro making it a match.

If she can keep this play, I think there's a good chance, she can re-enter top 10 next year (not that it matters to seeding if you're 9 or 12).
I dunno. Maybe it's crazy talk but I kind of thought that if Caro could get up a break in the 3rd set that she was gonna win the match.

Yah, it's good that she put up a fight after that 1st set.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #4442
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
So how many winners and unforced errors for both players? Thanks.
I think this is correct:

Caroline 18-31
Angelique 39-34

I think that really shows the difference between the two of them. Angelique had three more unforced errors but twenty-one more winners, it is hard to lose with that kind of ratio. She can defend great but she is also capable of good offense, right now Caroline struggles with both offense and defence, that makes players like Kerber extremely tough opponents.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #4443
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
I dunno. Maybe it's crazy talk but I kind of thought that if Caro could get up a break in the 3rd set that she was gonna win the match.

Yah, it's good that she put up a fight after that 1st set.
Judging from the way Kerber appeared to just give up in 2nd set, a break and a consolidation would say, you're right.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 12:03 PM   #4444
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by Blu€ View Post
Not really, Venus pummels Errani every time and look where she's ranked.

The big difference is pace, Caro plays with more pace than Aga and Errani, and Kerber struggles a lot against players who play without pace. She likes to use the other players pace to counterpunch.
It's not like Caro's hits as big the aggressive big hitting types though.

Speaking of Caro's pace of shot, has she ever gone back to the extra pace she had during the grass season?
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #4445
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I think this is correct:

Caroline 18-31
Angelique 39-34

I think that really shows the difference between the two of them. Angelique had three more unforced errors but twenty-one more winners, it is hard to lose with that kind of ratio. She can defend great but she is also capable of good offense, right now Caroline struggles with both offense and defence, that makes players like Kerber extremely tough opponents.
Yeah, but I wonder what those stats look like without that first set when Caroline just wasn't there.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #4446
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

I didn't see anything inevitable about this loss at all. I knew she would have a tough time of it in the first set because she just couldn't get her serve giong. She's very reliant on it now. When she did get it going, the matched changed. The third set could really have gone either way, and that "fan" who screamed out just as Caro was hitting the volley should have been dragged out of the stadium and pilloried. Maybe she was. The third set was a cliffhanger, and if that backhand down the line stays in, she could have won it. Lots of very positive things to take from the match. Good on Caro. I loved the way she got her forehand going, including some nice sitting forehands. I think the loss boosts her confidence. If she cuts down on a couple of those short crappy rally shots she still hits on her forehand, we'll really see a difference.

And the loss to Kerber in Cph was nothing. She played on a sprained ankle for half the third set. That was phhttt match.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #4447
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Yeah, but I wonder what those stats look like without that first set when Caroline just wasn't there.
By my calculation from the numbers given in this thread, Caro had 15 winners 18 unforced errors in the 2nd & 3rd set combined. Kerber had 27 winners 25 unforced errors in the 2nd & 3rd set combined and 27 winners 21 unforced errors in the 1st & 3rd set combined.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #4448
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

Right, Caro was 3/13 in the first set. As soon as she got her serve going, things picked up.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #4449
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by manixdk View Post
I didn't see anything inevitable about this loss at all. I knew she would have a tough time of it in the first set because she just couldn't get her serve giong. She's very reliant on it now. When she did get it going, the matched changed. The third set could really have gone either way, and that "fan" who screamed out just as Caro was hitting the volley should have been dragged out of the stadium and pilloried. Maybe she was. The third set was a cliffhanger, and if that backhand down the line stays in, she could have won it. Lots of very positive things to take from the match. Good on Caro. I loved the way she got her forehand going, including some nice sitting forehands. I think the loss boosts her confidence. If she cuts down on a couple of those short crappy rally shots she still hits on her forehand, we'll really see a difference.

And the loss to Kerber in Cph was nothing. She played on a sprained ankle for half the third set. That was phhttt match.
Why is Caro serve reliant these days?

Caro had chances to win both sets against Kerber in Copenhagen this year.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 12:59 PM   #4450
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
It's not like Caro's hits as big the aggressive big hitting types though.
Yes but she still hits stronger than those two and she often puts a lot of weight on her backhand shot which helps Kerber. Also Caro hits her serve with more power, I remember watching Angie against Errani at the US and she was netting the easiest returns ever, not once but a lot of times.

The good news from today, is that despite that first set, once Caro stepped up her serve, she was back in it with ease. She just needs to go for it on 2nd serve returns more often and not step back when she's leading the rally.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #4451
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Yeah, but I wonder what those stats look like without that first set when Caroline just wasn't there.
Sure but you could make the same argument for Kerber in the second set.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #4452
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I think this is correct:

Caroline 18-31
Angelique 39-34

I think that really shows the difference between the two of them. Angelique had three more unforced errors but twenty-one more winners, it is hard to lose with that kind of ratio. She can defend great but she is also capable of good offense, right now Caroline struggles with both offense and defence, that makes players like Kerber extremely tough opponents.
I suppose there's progress in that Caro had 82% of the amount of forced points (winners and forced errors combined) in this match compared to 55% in their Copenhagen match earlier in the year.

Caro actually had almost as many winners as Kim in their 2010 YEC match.

Caro struggling against good defenders isn't new though. She didn't beat JJ until 2011 (she was 0-4) although I think she could have done it in 2010 (likely in fall 2010 if they had played then, maybe in Indian Wells earlier in the year if it wasn't a final). She lost to Peer in Dubai in 2010.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #4453
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
By my calculation from the numbers given in this thread, Caro had 15 winners 18 unforced errors in the 2nd & 3rd set combined. Kerber had 27 winners 25 unforced errors in the 2nd & 3rd set combined and 27 winners 21 unforced errors in the 1st & 3rd set combined.
That's interesting that Kerber's stats in 1st and 3rd set are very similar to her stats in the 2nd and 3rd set and yet she had a much better 1st set than 2nd set. Caro's stats are of course very different. A horror show in the 1st set and thereafter much better. It would tend to imply that the difference was all down to Caro upping her level and that Kerber's level didn't change much in the three sets which isn't what I was getting from the LS comments..

Anyway - didn't see the match and I too thought beforehannd she would lose this one. But good to see that Caro made a real fight of this. If only she'd been a bit mentally stronger in the 3rd set and it sounds like she could have won.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #4454
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

Caro played about as well as she could. Glad to see she put up a fight in the end. She should just play Sofia, great chance for that title, and then call it a season. No point in fighting for an alt spot(IMO), you are just hoping someone gets injured/pulls out. To be honest i could care less about Turkish Airlines. lol
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #4455
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Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread v 10

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Caro played about as well as she could. Glad to see she put up a fight in the end. She should just play Sofia, great chance for that title, and then call it a season. No point in fighting for an alt spot(IMO), you are just hoping someone gets injured/pulls out. To be honest i could care less about Turkish Airlines. lol
Well, you don't have a contract with them. She does.
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