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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 02:27 PM   #1
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2015 Kick-Off Weekend

The draft starts on the hour: http://www.itatennis.com/Events/Kick...en_s_Draft.htm


http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.co.u...terfinals.html
Quote:
The women's draft is tomorrow, and as has been the case for several years now, participation is less enthusiastic, and there are three Top 20 teams, and nine Top 75 teams who have declined their place in the Kickoff Weekend. No. 8 Stanford, No. 14 Baylor and No. 19 Notre Dame are not playing, nor are South Carolina(26), Ole Miss(28), Arizona(33), Tennessee(34), Ohio State(35), Long Beach State(40), Indiana(51), Washington State(52) and Elon(72). I've heard that the increased number of conference matches due to conference realignment, especially with women's programs, which are more numerous than men's, is partially responsible for these opt-outs, as is the .500 winning percentage rule, which the NCAA has established as a requirement to participate in the NCAA team tournament. If you take three losses at the Team Indoor and play in a conference like the SEC, where conference wins are tough to come by, you may have to scramble to schedule some doubleheaders against less competitive D-I programs just to get back to .500. I doubt the NCAA anticipated this would be the consequences of adopting that rule, but it seems to be hurting college tennis, rather than helping it.
Complete draft.
1. UCLA
2. Kansas State
3. UC Irvine
4. Marshall

1. Duke
2. Memphis
3. Furman
4. Louisville

1. North Carolina
2. LSU
3. Boston College
4. Minnesota

1. Georgia
2. Auburn
3. Wake Forest
4. Samford

1. Florida
2. Georgia State
3. Maryland
4. Elon

1. Alabama
2. Princeton
3. Virginia Tech
4. Syracuse

1. Texas A&M
2. Houston
3. TCU
4. North Texas

1. California
2. Saint Mary's
3. Fresno State
4. Michigan State

1. Vanderbilt
2. Texas
3. DePaul
4. Harvard

1. Miami (FL)
2. Florida State
3. South Florida
4. North Florida

1. Clemson
2. Purdue
3. Washington
4. Winthrop

1. Northwestern
2. Rice
3. Kentucky
4. Arizona State

1. USC
2. Pepperdine
3. Wichita State
4. Denver

1. Michigan
2. Tulsa
3. Utah
4. Yale

1. Georgia Tech
2. Oklahoma State
3. Texas Tech
4. Columbia

Last edited by Embittered : Jun 5th, 2014 at 07:09 PM.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 03:01 PM   #2
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

Aside from Stanford, not heartbroken about any of those other teams not participating, and I think Indoors are a great early-season test of a team's strength, as well as a chance to tinker with the line-up. For me, the pros of participating still definitely outweigh the cons.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 03:04 PM   #3
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

Oklahoma State kicks off (no pun intended) by electing to go to Georgia Tech.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 03:46 PM   #4
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

The vultures are circling Northwestern this year...
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 04:31 PM   #5
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

Princeton selects the Alabama pod, possible NCAA rematch of a close one....
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 06:03 PM   #6
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

It should have finished by now, and UCLA are still waiting for someone brave enough to go there. Actually, it's not going to finish today, there are more open spaces than teams to fill them--they'll have to take it offline and bring in the 76-125 rankers.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 06:15 PM   #7
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

Aside from the first 10 or so schools to choose, this draft is so pointless. No one remotely competitive is ever going to choose to play UCLA or Florida outdoors. As I say every year, these schools should really get a bye to indoors once the top 30 or 40 schools have bypassed them. The lower ranked teams have no chance and it just becomes a huge waste of travel expenses and match dates.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #8
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSEMT View Post
Aside from the first 10 or so schools to choose, this draft is so pointless. No one remotely competitive is ever going to choose to play UCLA or Florida outdoors. As I say every year, these schools should really get a bye to indoors once the top 30 or 40 schools have bypassed them. The lower ranked teams have no chance and it just becomes a huge waste of travel expenses and match dates.
AMEN

The mid majors don't have budgets for this. What sense does it make for UCI to play UCLA twice a year potentially, like the did this year.

I applaud the 9 schools that passed. You can book the quality matches and control the schedule by doing so without holding out these dates. There is a 0% chance that Marshall will beat UCLA, Louisville over Duke or Michigan State will beat Cal. But it's super duper expensive. And god forbid it rains in January at some of the sites that don't have indoor courts nearby.

Let's start a poll... how many of the 15 hosts will advance to indoors anyway?
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 07:51 PM   #9
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

make it really indoors, not indoors playing outdoors. Let those guys who will not build courts play on someone else home turf. maybe a couple of other upsets per year and takes some great teams to other campuses. this could only increase the visibility of college tennis around the country.
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Old Jun 5th, 2014, 08:45 PM   #10
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

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Originally Posted by 3gtennis View Post
make it really indoors, not indoors playing outdoors. Let those guys who will not build courts play on someone else home turf. maybe a couple of other upsets per year and takes some great teams to other campuses. this could only increase the visibility of college tennis around the country.
Raise visibility? Not sure that's what the NCAA/ITA have in mind. What with the pending change to 'no AD scoring' next year for all matches. And likely doubles to just 6 pts. I'm not sure tennis actually matters anymore. Appears to me that getting it done quick and easy is the desired format.
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Old Jun 6th, 2014, 01:19 AM   #11
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

I've had a hard time with the push to shorten matches, but I've heard some great arguments for why no-ad and six-game prosets in doubles need to be tried in order to shorten matches that have me coming around.

While tennis will never have the visibility of football or basketball, there is no reason that tennis cannot have the same level of visibility of soccer or volleyball or other Olympic sports being played in these college towns where all things University are revered.

There are lots of junior tennis players and many parents that play tennis and want their kids to learn to play. The collegiate tennis match needs to be a manageable time frame for the parents to bring the kids like they do to soccer. It won't be easy to get on the agenda of the fans that are attending college sporting events, whether it be baseball, soccer, volleyball or whatever sport is being offered, but make the team match shorter, run some promotions, have a free kids clinic for an hour before the match, and then give the fans a product that they can enjoy in 2.5 hours, and you might have something - at least at the places where the town or state are super passionate about the university or college - think any place where you see lots of adults wearing the school colors.

Plus, AND HERE IS THE BEST ARGUMENT FOR TRYING TO DO THIS, the players would LOVE to have the opportunity to play in front of 100, 200, or more fans. You want to make college tennis a truly exceptional experience for the players, most of whom will never play professionally, get them some fans to play for. Let them hear their fellow students cheering, chanting, or supporting them in some way.

While I wish it wasn't true, I think we've proven that the 3+ hour match, while exciting to the tennis enthusiast, doesn't hold the attention of families with kids or other students who are the two groups you most need to get in the seats. Other students are going to see their friends play soccer, but they aren't sitting through a tennis match, and if they do show up, they get their fill with an hour of doubles. Heck, you can't even get the students to sit through more than a half of most football games. They tailgate, go watch the first half, and then either go back to tailgating or head home.

There is no guarantee that this will work, but a shorter format where doubles wets the appetite but is short enough that people don't feel like it is time to leave, and then a singles format that can pull people in a little quicker, is a place to start. It will take doing more fan friendly things, setting up bounce houses, maybe getting the mascot to the match, encouraging players to go say "hello" to any kids at the match and to go thank the adults who come and cheer, running a kids clinic, developing a relationship with the tennis programs around town like the college soccer teams have all done, but with effort, maybe we can make the college tennis experience more exciting for the players by making it more exciting for the fans.
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Old Jun 6th, 2014, 01:33 AM   #12
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSEMT View Post
Aside from the first 10 or so schools to choose, this draft is so pointless. No one remotely competitive is ever going to choose to play UCLA or Florida outdoors. As I say every year, these schools should really get a bye to indoors once the top 30 or 40 schools have bypassed them. The lower ranked teams have no chance and it just becomes a huge waste of travel expenses and match dates.
Respectfully, I have to disagree.

First, by giving up the two match dates to play the Kick-Off Weekend, a team like UCLA or Florida get three, four if they reach the championship match, match dates FOR FREE when they go to the championship site. That's a pretty good trade - two dates for two home matches that are probably against better or similar competition than some of the teams at the bottom of one's conference, and then three, maybe four, matches against the best teams in the country, at one site which is much cheaper to travel to than it would be to go play those matches at all different venues.

Second, for the teams that get to go play at UCLA or Florida or many of these top 20 program locales, that is a memorable college experience - probably more memorable than half the wins that team will have during the year. I wouldn't suggest being a mid-major below #50 in the country and going to UCLA or Florida if you are already scheduled to play them, but maybe you have to do that because of the other cool match you might get to play against a major conference opponent that your kids have watched with their Dads play basketball or football on television for years. Okay, so it isn't the most productive weekend for UCLA or Florida. It's January, and they are just getting started. Most major teams schedule some early season easier matches anyway. IT IS A GREAT THING TO GIVE THOSE STUDENT-ATHLETES FROM THE OTHER SCHOOL THAT OPPORTUNITY TO GO WALK PAST PAULEY PAVILLION AND PLAY IN THAT STADIUM AT UCLA OR THE OPPORTUNITY TO WALK THROUGH THE TROPHY ROOM AT GEORGIA AND PLAY. There isn't a basketball team in the country that wouldn't want to go play against Duke in front of the Cameron Crazies - granted there is a slim chance of winning in soccer or basketball - but that slim chance isn't the reason you add Duke to your schedule in basketball...it is because it is an amazing experience for your student-athletes from that mid-major to get to play in that venue and to shake hands with Coach K as a basketball player.
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Old Jun 6th, 2014, 02:38 PM   #13
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

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Originally Posted by Tenniswish View Post
Respectfully, I have to disagree.

First, by giving up the two match dates to play the Kick-Off Weekend, a team like UCLA or Florida get three, four if they reach the championship match, match dates FOR FREE when they go to the championship site. That's a pretty good trade - two dates for two home matches that are probably against better or similar competition than some of the teams at the bottom of one's conference, and then three, maybe four, matches against the best teams in the country, at one site which is much cheaper to travel to than it would be to go play those matches at all different venues.

Second, for the teams that get to go play at UCLA or Florida or many of these top 20 program locales, that is a memorable college experience - probably more memorable than half the wins that team will have during the year. I wouldn't suggest being a mid-major below #50 in the country and going to UCLA or Florida if you are already scheduled to play them, but maybe you have to do that because of the other cool match you might get to play against a major conference opponent that your kids have watched with their Dads play basketball or football on television for years. Okay, so it isn't the most productive weekend for UCLA or Florida. It's January, and they are just getting started. Most major teams schedule some early season easier matches anyway. IT IS A GREAT THING TO GIVE THOSE STUDENT-ATHLETES FROM THE OTHER SCHOOL THAT OPPORTUNITY TO GO WALK PAST PAULEY PAVILLION AND PLAY IN THAT STADIUM AT UCLA OR THE OPPORTUNITY TO WALK THROUGH THE TROPHY ROOM AT GEORGIA AND PLAY. There isn't a basketball team in the country that wouldn't want to go play against Duke in front of the Cameron Crazies - granted there is a slim chance of winning in soccer or basketball - but that slim chance isn't the reason you add Duke to your schedule in basketball...it is because it is an amazing experience for your student-athletes from that mid-major to get to play in that venue and to shake hands with Coach K as a basketball player.

Shorten formats are a mistake.
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Old Jun 6th, 2014, 02:40 PM   #14
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenniswish View Post
Respectfully, I have to disagree.

First, by giving up the two match dates to play the Kick-Off Weekend, a team like UCLA or Florida get three, four if they reach the championship match, match dates FOR FREE when they go to the championship site. That's a pretty good trade - two dates for two home matches that are probably against better or similar competition than some of the teams at the bottom of one's conference, and then three, maybe four, matches against the best teams in the country, at one site which is much cheaper to travel to than it would be to go play those matches at all different venues.

Second, for the teams that get to go play at UCLA or Florida or many of these top 20 program locales, that is a memorable college experience - probably more memorable than half the wins that team will have during the year. I wouldn't suggest being a mid-major below #50 in the country and going to UCLA or Florida if you are already scheduled to play them, but maybe you have to do that because of the other cool match you might get to play against a major conference opponent that your kids have watched with their Dads play basketball or football on television for years. Okay, so it isn't the most productive weekend for UCLA or Florida. It's January, and they are just getting started. Most major teams schedule some early season easier matches anyway. IT IS A GREAT THING TO GIVE THOSE STUDENT-ATHLETES FROM THE OTHER SCHOOL THAT OPPORTUNITY TO GO WALK PAST PAULEY PAVILLION AND PLAY IN THAT STADIUM AT UCLA OR THE OPPORTUNITY TO WALK THROUGH THE TROPHY ROOM AT GEORGIA AND PLAY. There isn't a basketball team in the country that wouldn't want to go play against Duke in front of the Cameron Crazies - granted there is a slim chance of winning in soccer or basketball - but that slim chance isn't the reason you add Duke to your schedule in basketball...it is because it is an amazing experience for your student-athletes from that mid-major to get to play in that venue and to shake hands with Coach K as a basketball player.
The UCLA stadium gives me vertigo.
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Old Jun 6th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #15
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Re: 2015 Kick-Off Weekend

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Originally Posted by Tenniswish View Post
I've had a hard time with the push to shorten matches, but I've heard some great arguments for why no-ad and six-game prosets in doubles need to be tried in order to shorten matches that have me coming around.

While tennis will never have the visibility of football or basketball, there is no reason that tennis cannot have the same level of visibility of soccer or volleyball or other Olympic sports being played in these college towns where all things University are revered.

There are lots of junior tennis players and many parents that play tennis and want their kids to learn to play. The collegiate tennis match needs to be a manageable time frame for the parents to bring the kids like they do to soccer. It won't be easy to get on the agenda of the fans that are attending college sporting events, whether it be baseball, soccer, volleyball or whatever sport is being offered, but make the team match shorter, run some promotions, have a free kids clinic for an hour before the match, and then give the fans a product that they can enjoy in 2.5 hours, and you might have something - at least at the places where the town or state are super passionate about the university or college - think any place where you see lots of adults wearing the school colors.

Plus, AND HERE IS THE BEST ARGUMENT FOR TRYING TO DO THIS, the players would LOVE to have the opportunity to play in front of 100, 200, or more fans. You want to make college tennis a truly exceptional experience for the players, most of whom will never play professionally, get them some fans to play for. Let them hear their fellow students cheering, chanting, or supporting them in some way.

While I wish it wasn't true, I think we've proven that the 3+ hour match, while exciting to the tennis enthusiast, doesn't hold the attention of families with kids or other students who are the two groups you most need to get in the seats. Other students are going to see their friends play soccer, but they aren't sitting through a tennis match, and if they do show up, they get their fill with an hour of doubles. Heck, you can't even get the students to sit through more than a half of most football games. They tailgate, go watch the first half, and then either go back to tailgating or head home.

There is no guarantee that this will work, but a shorter format where doubles wets the appetite but is short enough that people don't feel like it is time to leave, and then a singles format that can pull people in a little quicker, is a place to start. It will take doing more fan friendly things, setting up bounce houses, maybe getting the mascot to the match, encouraging players to go say "hello" to any kids at the match and to go thank the adults who come and cheer, running a kids clinic, developing a relationship with the tennis programs around town like the college soccer teams have all done, but with effort, maybe we can make the college tennis experience more exciting for the players by making it more exciting for the fans.
Counter arguments:

- Stop the matches at doubles pt and 4 points... that's when people leave anyway. But those 4-3 epics are great for the sport.
- You want fans, it's not about length of match. It's about marketing (advertising, the administration actually spending time and resources all year long selling the matches and the atmosphere at the match).
- You only take 3 steps backwards when you shorten things by deviating from the norm that people know. Sport loses credibility AND fluke wins begin to occur.

The average match for the team I follow would have been 3 hrs 15 min this year (not including if they'd stopped doubles at the pt) except for a few 4-3 matches. But people weren't leaving at 3-3... the were cheering and fired up.

I do agree, there is no point other than individual records/rankings in 4-0 matches. Example: UCLA won their first round NCAA match in less than 2 hours with the shortened dubs point/4 pts format. It's over. Let's move along.

But to bastardize the sport claiming it will draw fans is completely false. Advertising, entertainment, good tennis draw fans.

They could change matches to one hour and give away money but if nobody knows there is a match will anyone come?
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