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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #3556
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #3557
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I don't believe that is true at all. If she knew how to get back to the way that she was playing circa August, 2010-April, 2011 she would do so. She's not happy losing early and making more errors than she used to. I think that the problem is that it is not easy to get to the level she had when she was at her best. She didn't win a slam but she really did have a phenomenal run. It is unrealistic for us to expect that she can get back to being that good and winning that often but she certainly is capable of playing much better than she has been over the last year.
We disagree. I saw this when she was losing to Vinci & Mchale a full year ago. It looked like she was tanking to me. So many unforced errors at the end of each set.

Go back & watch her hit her forehand at IW 2011. Then watch anything in the past year. It looks clear to me she is going for more.
I still think about her running around her backhand to stand near the adcourt doubles alley so she could hit a forehand, which she put in the net, in the Dubai tiebreak with Goerges.
When did you ever see her so far into her backhand corner so she could hit a forehand?
These are things she's consciously doing to be aggressive with her forehand.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #3558
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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We disagree. I saw this when she was losing to Vinci & Mchale a full year ago. It looked like she was tanking to me. So many unforced errors at the end of each set.

Go back & watch her hit her forehand at IW 2011. Then watch anything in the past year. It looks clear to me she is going for more.
I still think about her running around her backhand to stand near the adcourt doubles alley so she could hit a forehand, which she put in the net, in the Dubai tiebreak with Goerges.
When did you ever see her so far into her backhand corner so she could hit a forehand?
These are things she's consciously doing to be aggressive with her forehand.
For me the question is did she start losing because she changed her style of play or did she change her style of play because she started losing? I can't believe that she just spontaneously decided to try to become a more aggressive player while at the same time her game was working and she was having great success. I guess it is impossible to know for certain, and she is certainly not candid enough to discuss it publicly, but I would really like to know when she decided that things weren't working with the game she had and how/why she decided to change her game.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #3559
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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For me the question is did she start losing because she changed her style of play or did she change her style of play because she started losing?
I believe she changed it because she started losing. Back at the USO last year that was still pretty much the old Caro even though she already had those R1 losses in the lead up.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #3560
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Thomas Johansson@TompaSthlmOpen
Tomorrow I will be going over to New York and then to New Haven. Going to be a lot of fun!
That is a bit of good news to me.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 12:06 PM   #3561
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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I believe she changed it because she started losing. Back at the USO last year that was still pretty much the old Caro even though she already had those R1 losses in the lead up.
You do have to wonder how much the 2011 losses at Roland Garros and Wimbledon affected her. I think that most of us believed that those losses weren't too surprising considering that hardcourts are her best surface but when she had those two bad losses in Toronto and Cincinnati things started looking much shakier. Then she won New Haven and made the semis at the U.S. Open and, despite the fact that she still wasn't playing as well as she was a year earlier, things started looking good again but since then her results haven't been great.

Sorry, I went a bit off track there. I guess what I am trying to say is that if she could have just gotten through the 2011 clay/grass season with her "old" game intact things may have improved greatly in August but I think the early losses at those two slams may have shaken her and made her reassess her game.

I was very hopeful that during last years off season that she would "fix" whatever was wrong and that the start of 2012 would be the beginning of her getting back to her winning ways. Well, that didn't quite happen but maybe next year will be different?

One last thing, how much of her recent struggles are due to her anticipation not being what it once was? Much more often than not it seemed like the "old" Caroline just knew where her opponents shots were going to land and she got there in plenty of time to not only get the ball back in play but to hit a very deep and difficult to return shot. We don't really see much of that from her anymore.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #3562
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Her results arent terrible. Thats why she's still in the YEC race.
AO QF, Dubai SF, Miami SF, Copenhagen F
All those results say she has a chance in New Haven.

The clay/grass results are worse, but microanalyzing, Madrid, Wimbledon & Olympics were okay, not terrible. 2 losses to Serena after some decent wins, & match points against Paszek, who was hot then.
Rome she retired.

If she is really mentally engaged to winning this title again, which groups her with 3 of the greatest in history, then she has a real chance
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #3563
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
For me the question is did she start losing because she changed her style of play or did she change her style of play because she started losing? I can't believe that she just spontaneously decided to try to become a more aggressive player while at the same time her game was working and she was having great success. I guess it is impossible to know for certain, and she is certainly not candid enough to discuss it publicly, but I would really like to know when she decided that things weren't working with the game she had and how/why she decided to change her game.
All the talk and "perceived wisdom" last year was that she couldn't win slams with her style back then. That was the reason. So either none of the above in bold, or she started losing because she tried to change her style.

Personally and without making a prediction - although I think it was always going to be difficult to win a slam - I believe she would have had so many chances at SFs of slams with the way she was playing before that she would have had a great chance that one of those times she would go all the way playing how she was on sheer Mathematical probabilities. Now she has no chance at all unless she can cut down the UEs.

What actually happened last year from the clay season till the end of the year was full of contradictions with Piotr and mystery coaches and Piotr saying Caro just wanted to be a ball-basher and all sorts of things that were at odds with what Caro herself was saying. I honestly got a bit annoyed with some of the things Piotr came out with back then and it wasn't handled well. They should just have stone-walled if there were any disagreements Caro and Piotr may have had. They should NEVER have EVER talked about a mystery coach. And really just talked about working on improving the forehand, coming to the net and net play, and her serve whilst ensuring she continued to play to her strengths.

Personally - amidst all that confusion which I think had permeated her team - I think Caro herself actually got confused. And I believe myself that it contributed to Caro losing her way and then unable to find her way back. But then - what do I know?

I don't see her games very much. I'm not interested in watching replays of her losses. But what I have seen - I didn't see her trying to win every point on her 1st forehand and not try to grind out her points. I think that's a red herring. However, I do know that when it develops into a long rally - I used to think Caro would win the point. Now if it's live and it develops into a rally - I think she'll probably lose the point. Not because she tries something. But because a bread and butter shot breaks down or her opponent takes control.

If Caro does see an opportunity but doesn't make her shot - that's fair enough. If she sees an opportunity to come to the net and it doesn't work out - that's fair enough. I don't think that's a problem. But I remember her at IW last year dictating points, moving her opponent around, finishing a point off at the net. It was great. What I don't have any answer or idea about is the unreliability I see in her basic game.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #3564
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

One thing is for sure, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, she won't (in all likelihood) get the chance to win another tournament five times in a row ever again.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 01:25 PM   #3565
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
For me the question is did she start losing because she changed her style of play or did she change her style of play because she started losing?
That is a good and relevant question of course.

I am personally leaning towards 'losing because she changed her style of play' .. The 'Caroline will now start swinging wild at every ball' comment from Piotr came during Roger's Cup 2011 (i.e. video coach and change on the way) and even after that, she went on to win NH and make USO SF.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #3566
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

I think she succumbed under the pressure of her critics. That, and maybe a sincere believe that 'her old game' had taken her as far as it could take her, and if she wanted to win major titles (slams, olympics, YEC) she needed to add to her offensive arsenal. Sometimes it seems to work pretty well, or it looks promising anyway. But most of the time she's making twenty more UE just to be able to make five more winners. Not a formula for success, but I remember that when she was number one we were encouraging her to go for it a bit more to enable her to beat the likes of Serena and Clijsters. Now that she's trying and even losing to non-entities we're changing our tunes. I'm not sure what the solution is. Problem is that she's not only missing when she's going for it but that she's even missing routine shots, which was unheard of in the days of old.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #3567
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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One thing is for sure, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, she won't (in all likelihood) get the chance to win another tournament five times in a row ever again.
This is for sure. And it wont be easy.
But right now, this is for tennis history, and also to get her back in form. Which she needs, some urgency to focus. Especially on her serves & forehands. This is a good reason to take every point seriously
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #3568
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Just checked the Cincy result
Flopping to Pavly at her favourite surface Or was Pavs on fire that day? Anyhow,there's still New Haven so hopefully the friendly atmosphere will have a positive influence on her confidence and game.

Having read the previous comments I'm with those who think that changes to her game have taken their toll. I believe it's not that easy to change back as it took her a long time to build what,over the past two seasons, got messed up by implementing different approach.

In her interviews Caro never expressed a wish to change her game and become more aggressive,I guess she was prompted to do it by people in her team. It was mostly her coaches/father who mentioned the need to change,so this hints that she could have had a different opinion.
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #3569
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Flopping to Pavly at her favourite surface Or was Pavs on fire that day?
It was more Caro being bad than Pavlyuchenkova playing great. Be glad you missed that match, she was like 1/12 on BP and she had almost the same amount of UE as Nastya, around 30.

I do think she had to become more agressive to get better as a player. She was great defending, she just had to add a punch to her shots and go for it more often. But, things have gone wild and know she can't do either. Hopefully she has a good week at NH, she needs it and us fans too!
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Old Aug 19th, 2012, 09:23 PM   #3570
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

I was surprised she didnt start the hardcourt season better than these last 2 tournaments.
But all year has been surprising.
So we shouldnt look past Makarova. Very inconsistent, but reached the AO quarters
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