Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5 - Page 152 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Closed Thread

Old May 21st, 2012, 06:02 PM   #2266
country flag Chrissie-fan
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Chrissie-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,074
Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
Li Na just returned back at the old level of performance,I think. She never was that consistent before RG anyway.
No, she was always very up and down. Following her FO win though she was down only for the rest of the year.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki
You'll Never Walk Alone When You Have a Friend Like Serena Williams
Maria Sharapova, Simona Halep, Aga Radwanska

Thank you LI NA
Chrissie-fan is offline View My Blog!  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old May 21st, 2012, 06:11 PM   #2267
country flag goldenlox
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 86,895
goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
This strategy is risky simply because of the fact that this way she has only four tournaments that make or break her season. Add in the fact that two of the slams are played on surfaces that aren't her strong suit it makes it even riskier.

Imo (but what do I know?), her whole game is suited to playing lots of tournaments and dominating the tour like she did 15 months ago. It's no coincidence that this approach got here where she is (was), the way she plays she'll always in danger of being outhit at slams, especially at Wimbledon. She needs that consistency to make up for that and by surrendering this they give up one of her major advantages I feel.
I dont think their strategy is to keep losing every nonmajor for a future payoff. Its just how she plays now.
But I thought she did play some decent tennis in Melbourne before the Kim match.
I would never have guessed coming out of the AO she would be 9 seed in Paris.
So maybe the major will get her more focused. If she doesnt play better at these 2 majors, then it just reinforces that these errors are part of her game for 2012 and this is how she plays tennis now
__________________
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 21st, 2012, 09:05 PM   #2268
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,816
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
This strategy is risky simply because of the fact that this way she has only four tournaments that make or break her season. Add in the fact that two of the slams are played on surfaces that aren't her strong suit it makes it even riskier.

Imo (but what do I know?), her whole game is suited to playing lots of tournaments and dominating the tour like she did 15 months ago. It's no coincidence that this approach got here where she is (was), the way she plays she'll always in danger of being outhit at slams, especially at Wimbledon. She needs that consistency to make up for that and by surrendering this they give up one of her major advantages I feel.
I think so. I've had arguments about this just doing really well and winning tournament and going deep in slams all the time does gives you a great chance to be the one to take advantage of any breaks going and "make your own luck" and win a slam. And I don't like this "it doesn't matter - we are focusing on the slams idea" after a loss at all. It just seems all too much like an excuse - and if/when you don't then win a slam (or at least do better which at USO would be hard for her to do better because she's been pretty good there) - what have you left?

Obviously prepare as best you can to peak at the majors. But I want to see Caro winning before I have any confidence she has a hope in hell at the slams. I don't see her with a win at any big tourmant at the moment let alone a slam just popping out of nowhere when she hasn't been playing well this year. I'm sure it has to be her overall play that she needs to concentrate on and play as well as she used to.

Now a totally different player is Petra who is having a bad year so far. Yet it wouldn't surprise me in the least if out of nowhere she won Wimbledon again.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters

Last edited by terjw : May 21st, 2012 at 09:18 PM.
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:31 AM   #2269
country flag Chrissie-fan
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Chrissie-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,074
Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

About the choking - EVERY player chokes in my opinion. Even someone like Sharapova who's mentally supposed to be a giant. The only player who rarely if ever chokes is Serena Williams who just knows that she has that monster serve to rely on. Even so, it's hard to deny that Caroline losing leads in sets and failing to serve them out happens much more frequently now than when she was on top. It has nothing to do with giving up on matches, not being focussed enough or that it means less to her than it used to. If anything, it might mean TOO much to her as a result of which she tightens up. Even so - I wouldn't call Caroline mentally weak. There's a difference between choking and quitting. That's what Sharapova's so-called mental strenght comes down to really. She might choke a point or a game away, but as soon as the ball is back in play she's competitive again - she keeps fighting. Caroline is much the same way, although she's less demonstrative about it (no shrieking and a less dominating on-court personality).
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki
You'll Never Walk Alone When You Have a Friend Like Serena Williams
Maria Sharapova, Simona Halep, Aga Radwanska

Thank you LI NA

Last edited by Chrissie-fan : May 22nd, 2012 at 01:40 AM.
Chrissie-fan is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:54 AM   #2270
country flag Jimmie48
In The Lap Of The Gods
 
Jimmie48's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 19,747
Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Jimmie,I say this w/o a trace of animosity,but the post above looks quasi-scholarly on the surface,yet the reasoning is PISS-poor on MANY levels.

1.If you're not sure whether or not Caroline has the character and common sense to find the right path back to the top,then you owe it to us to be honest about that instead of posting with an air of phony certainty.If you ARE sure one way or the other,then you should either have faith in her to come back or reject Caro as a fave if you feel that she lacks the necessary internal qualities(or else why do you cheer for her?Her pretty smile and her demeanor?).....The equation changes only slightly if you feel that she lacks the physical skills to succeed.If THAT's the case,then why quibble over her chosen style of play when we've already clearly seen that a passive Caro can get blown off the court,with almost no recourse,by dim-witted one-dimensional BBs.

2.The mental toughness argument is fairly feeble because your supposed evidence is so one-dimensional;i.e.,Caroline is losing many big points,therefore she must be choking.I haven't even heard any halfway-credible Caro-bashers who accused her of checking out in matches.As I posted earlier,one can visibly notice when players such as Ivanovic collapse at crucial moments or quit after losing them.A just-as-plausible argument is that Caroline simply hasn't honed her new style of play well enough to defeat in-form opponents who are focused in.I pose a reasonable challenge to you--IF you're up to it--to show me some video where Caroline panics and shows awful,contrary form at clutch moments...or looks mentally out of it as if she's given up......If you or Goldenlox can't produce such scenes(there should be plenty,according to you),then you should cut all the empty blathering about Caroline allegedly choking

3.The age argument is the most pitiful of the lot;you--OF ALL PEOPLE--should know that Caroline isn't a mindless slave to her daddy.Or do you now believe that Piotr encouraged her to spend more time with Rory and less on tennis?If Caroline loves tennis,then she's not gonna quit at 25 just because her daddy made a suggestion a few years ago.Even if we DO take a HUGE presumptive leap and pretend that you and your Uncle Nietzsche are correct in your Doom Forecast on Caroline,how soon/much does she have to dominate in order to satisfy you??Winning two Slams this year?Or three Slams NEXT year?Or have you even thought it through,truthfully?

Tbh,Jimmie,it now seems that you've taken the Rory relationship and run amok,categorizing Caroline as a dizzy adolescent who thinks with her panties and either doesn't care or can't reason clearly anymore.This is a stupid characterization,in my view because,once again,it raises the extremely valid question: If you have such a low estimation of Caroline's character,then why on earth are you her fan???Personally,I can't cheer for someone whom I don't respect,and it was Caro the individual...and NOT her results...that won me over a couple years ago
is this a serious post? I kind of feel like you are taking the piss...

1) Where do I question her character? All I'm saying is that she doesn't get the results needed to be a Top 5 player right now, I don't even go as far as to hint at any reasons because I don't know them. You put words in my mouth here, please point me to a post where I talk badly about her character.

2) She has lost a bunch of matches in the past six months where she had match points, she often loses games after being 40-15 up etc. Call it what you want, chocking or not... but it's mental weakness, a problem she didn't have 16 months ago. Do you really feel like she's a mentally tough player right now? Really?

3) Why should all of all people know anything? Are you suggesting that I have some sort of inside knowledge about her? I have as much idea about the relationship with her father like anybody here. But if you think that Piotr doesn't influence her you`re naive. I'm not saying that he's making decisions for her but she said herself countless times that he's the one she listens to the most when it comes to her career. So if he advises her to retire at 25 or 26 it will have an influence on her in some way or another because she values his opinion.

What doom forecast? I don't think anybody would have predicted that she does this bad five months ago, I think her slump has exceeded everybody's expectations so far. You like to paint me as somebody who's incredible unreasonable... dominate? Winning slams? A few posts above I`m clearly saying that I would be fine with her winning anything, heck just make a final... is that really too much to ask? Is it unreasonable to expect a former #1 to make a final of a notable tournament once in a while? Most of her peers can do it... Vika can, Aga can.... so again, why is it unreasonable to expect the same from a healthy Caroline? Nobody's asking for miracles here. Piotr went ahead saying she'll win Madrid and I`m a dick for asking for a final? Please..

And the last paragraph is pure nonsense. Why do you even bring the golfer into this? The post you quoted contains 0,0% related to her private life, I go purely by her results. Again you accuse me of talking badly about her character, where do you get that? Which part of the post you quoted contains anything even remotely like that?

Sorry but this is by far the dumbest post I´ve seen here in a long while. You attack me personally for things I have never said and you make plenty of completely baseless accusations. You can be glad I don't bad rep Caro fans out of principle, your post is offensive on so many levels...
__________________

My Tennis Photo Website

Twitter

Last edited by Jimmie48 : May 22nd, 2012 at 02:01 AM.
Jimmie48 is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:04 AM   #2271
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,655
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
About the choking - EVERY player chokes in my opinion. Even someone like Sharapova who's mentally supposed to be a giant. The only player who rarely if ever chokes is Serena Williams who just knows that she has that monster serve to rely on. Even so, it's hard to deny that Caroline losing leads in sets and failing to serve them out happens much more frequently now than when she was on top. It has nothing to do with giving up on matches, not being focussed enough or that it means less to her than it used to. If anything, it might mean TOO much to her as a result of which she tightens up. Even so - I wouldn't call Caroline mentally weak. There's a difference between choking and quitting. That's what Sharapova's so-called mental strenght comes down to really. She might choke a point or a game away, but as soon as the ball is back in play she's competitive again - she keeps fighting. Caroline is much the same way, although she's less demonstrative about it (no shrieking and a less dominating on-court personality).
Pretty strong post there,and I agree with your premise that everyone--including Graf,Evert,Serena.etc.--has choked on occasion,but I'm still waiting to see some sort of solid,visible evidence;e.g.,that Caroline has FREQUENTLY made a nervous mis-hit or failed to put away an easy volley and,so far,no one has posted any such compare-and-contrast video.I could cite you lots of examples from team sports where a certain franchise consistently made the playoffs yet failed to ever advance beyond a certain round...and it had nothing to do with choking and everything to do with the fact that the team was good enough to reach a certain point and not any further.

In the current state of Caroline's game,she's like one of those good-but-not-super teams,IMO;she's still talented enough to beat some top players but she's finding her way thru a somewhat-awkward process,and stars who are already set in their styles of play are gonna have a decided edge on Caro in many of these close matches
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Opening Soon: The Allaster-Stubbs-Amanmuradova Academy of Feminine Grace and Charm
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:50 AM   #2272
country flag Jimmie48
In The Lap Of The Gods
 
Jimmie48's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 19,747
Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Do you always wake up at 4a.m. to check posts at TF?In your defense,maybe you're not in Germany right now

I'll handle the relevant comments: As for your defensiveness on the final point,you lack credibility with your previous tidal wave of posts accusing Rory of ruining Caro's career.Most any educated person would agree that you STRONGLY implied that Caroline lacked the willpower to resist Rory in any way...and that she'd forsake her career at his beck and call.Are you really gonna give a chickenshit denial by pretending that you never posted that?

I'm not sure if you're playing dumb on purpose or just misunderstood,but you obviously don't attack Caroline's character directly;however,your insinuations that she can't think clearly...or that YOU have a better perspective on what's right for her...is a fairly clear way of saying that Caro lacks wisdom or internal fortitude.

As for paragraph #2,put up or shut up.....that's just an expression;I'm not challenging your right to post here...and you've suddenly got amnesia and forgotten that I defended you when blue called you a troll and tried to condemn you to GM.Anyhow,unless you can show me some change of form under pressure ON VIDEO,your accusation of mental weakness is just empty blathering...much like the accusation that Caroline wants to steal the identity of her slutty Adidas comrade(though that doesn't come from THIS forum,of course)

Again,give us something concrete instead of the safe evasiveness you chose;exactly how much time is Caroline allowed to fulfill your wishes before we write her off?If I recall correctly,Sampras went thru a huge down period after his first Wimby;so why is Caro's slump any more serious than THAT...or 'proof' that,if she doesn't win a Premier by such-and-such a time,she's supposedly doomed to keep failing until her "imminent retirement" at age 25?
None of what you say makes any sense. Yeah, I'm often up at 4am because I like to work at night because that's when I'm productive... no idea why you need to know that though.

I implied that she lacked the willpower to "resist him"? Like he relationship-raped her?

I'm sorry but that's off the charts hilarious, I'm dying here. Yes, I do believe that their relationship has played a part in her recent struggles and I think absolutely no one is in the position to say it hasn't. You may believe the contrary but it is much of a valid believe as mine...nobody knows for certain but her. If the fact that I hate this guy renders all my postings regarding her tennis irrelevant to you then I have to accept that, I strongly suggest that you stop replying to them then.

I'm not saying that she's not thinking clearly. If she flies out to see him instead of preparing on site for a tournament (as has happened in the past but not recently thankfully) then that's most likely a conscious decision by her that we have to accept, however we`re free to disagree with it. It's not about lacking wisdom, people usually do the dumbest shit when they`re in love so why would Caro be the exception? It seems to me that it has died down a little bit during the past few months though, looks like she's over that initial stat of euphoria you have when you`re in a very fresh relationship and you`re most prone to do stupid stuff you`ll regret later.

Everybody has done that in some ways or another so why wouldn't she? To accuse me of thinking less of her because of that is outrageous.

In this case, you`re the one who brought him up. The post you quoted didn't mention or even hint at it, I was talking about where her recent results put her in terms of the ranking, I didn't even touch on any of the possible reasons. It seems like you`re trying really hard to read certain things into my postings and you make all kind of wild accusations because you think you you what I thought or meant...you don't. I actually try hard to not mention any of this stuff, you`re the one who made this an issue again.

I don't need to provide you with any video evidence of her mental weakness during the past months, everybody has seen it. Go check the scoring thread, you will find plenty of those moments in just a few minutes of browsing. I don't think anybody in here argues that her mental toughness has taking a major hit during the past six months, it's pretty silly to argue about that really. If you can't see a difference between late 2010 Caro and current Caro in terms of mental stability in key moments then I can't help you.

Again, I'm unreasonable for asking for a final while Piotr predicts she`ll win Madrid? Where have I said that I`ll write her off unless she does this or that? All I'm saying is that we can expect for a former #1 with her talent to do better... right now she's underperforming and if you`re disputing that then I don't know what to say.

In general, you should really stop reading anything into my postings that isn't there. Unless you can quote me on something, don't bring it up, otherwise you'll just look foolish.
__________________

My Tennis Photo Website

Twitter
Jimmie48 is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 03:19 AM   #2273
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,655
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Okay,I promised to be more civil,so I'm gonna go back and delete the posts that offended the other poster(if he chooses to retain the original text in his replies,that's up to him).I'll only say that it's hard for me to respect the judgment of any adult who shows adolescent jealousy over Caro's bf...and I'll leave it at that

The only other comment I have to make is that Caro didn't "become" mentally weak...that's just stupid reasoning,IMO.Strong people don't "become" weak unless there's something REALLY cataclysmic in their lives....I recall Seles' stabbing aftermath as a rare exception to that rule.By the same token,weak people very rarely become strong unless they're mentored by a stalwart leader.At worst,Caroline is going thru an adjustment period where she has less confidence because she's exploring new territory...so it's only natural--quite human,actually--that she wouldn't have the same level of rock-solid assurance in going for shots...and I don't equate that with mental weakness or choking...and still challenge anyone to show me video or commentary that demonstrates where Caroline is short-arming her swings or adjusting her stroke in some panicky fashion frequently on crucial points.....Something tells me that nobody's gonna provide me with that video footage(lol)....Goodnight all
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Opening Soon: The Allaster-Stubbs-Amanmuradova Academy of Feminine Grace and Charm

Last edited by bruce goose : May 22nd, 2012 at 04:59 AM.
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 07:40 AM   #2274
country flag DownInAHole
Senior Member
 
DownInAHole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,182
DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Okay,I promised to be more civil,so I'm gonna go back and delete the posts that offended the other poster(if he chooses to retain the original text in his replies,that's up to him).I'll only say that it's hard for me to respect the judgment of any adult who shows adolescent jealousy over Caro's bf...and I'll leave it at that

The only other comment I have to make is that Caro didn't "become" mentally weak...that's just stupid reasoning,IMO.Strong people don't "become" weak unless there's something REALLY cataclysmic in their lives....I recall Seles' stabbing aftermath as a rare exception to that rule.By the same token,weak people very rarely become strong unless they're mentored by a stalwart leader.At worst,Caroline is going thru an adjustment period where she has less confidence because she's exploring new territory...so it's only natural--quite human,actually--that she wouldn't have the same level of rock-solid assurance in going for shots...and I don't equate that with mental weakness or choking...and still challenge anyone to show me video or commentary that demonstrates where Caroline is short-arming her swings or adjusting her stroke in some panicky fashion frequently on crucial points.....Something tells me that nobody's gonna provide me with that video footage(lol)....Goodnight all
I don't have any video, and it is not exactly what you are asking for, but one odd thing is her recent habit of moving to her forehand side to hit the ball when she was already in position to hit it with her backhand. I guess the most obvious reason for her doing that is to try to improve her forehand but it seems strange that she is sacrificing her best shot so often in matches. If the end result is a much improved forehand shot then it will have been worth it but I don't think it is wise to neglect her backhand which most people agree is her best shot.

Another change from her purple patch is lack of depth and questionable shot selection. Again, I have no video but if you watch one of her recent matches there will be times when she has options but she chooses to hit the ball right to her opponent and hit it very soft/weak giving them a very easy return shot. True, she never hit oodles of winners but she was once much better at forcing her opponents to hit difficult shots that often resulted in an error. Now far too many of her balls are landing very soft in the middle of the court giving her opponent plenty of time to line up their shots and hit winners.
__________________
Don't get on the scale if U ain't got the weight
It's more hard to love than it is to hate


Rock 'n' Roll Is Alive! (And It Lives In Minneapolis)
DownInAHole is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:14 AM   #2275
country flag goldenlox
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 86,895
goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
..but one odd thing is her recent habit of moving to her forehand side to hit the ball when she was already in position to hit it with her backhand. I guess the most obvious reason for her doing that is to try to improve her forehand but it seems strange that she is sacrificing her best shot so often in matches. If the end result is a much improved forehand shot then it will have been worth it but I don't think it is wise to neglect her backhand which most people agree is her best shot.

Another change from her purple patch is lack of depth and questionable shot selection. ...
Its a lot of little things. Its all part of being mentally tough & making good decisions.
If you go back and watch the end of her AO match with Jankovic, Jelena misses some very easy shots. She used to be a really good player. Its a matter of focus, playing smart, dont take any shot for granted.

I think thats what happened to Caroline. The focus needed to execute and make good decisions is not as good as it used to be. Maybe she will never get it back, just like Jankovic.

But she has to play smarter. And to win more matches, her pace/placement decisions have to improve.
Lets see what happens at these 2 majors and the Olympics
__________________
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:22 AM   #2276
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,655
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I don't have any video, and it is not exactly what you are asking for, but one odd thing is her recent habit of moving to her forehand side to hit the ball when she was already in position to hit it with her backhand. I guess the most obvious reason for her doing that is to try to improve her forehand but it seems strange that she is sacrificing her best shot so often in matches. If the end result is a much improved forehand shot then it will have been worth it but I don't think it is wise to neglect her backhand which most people agree is her best shot.

Another change from her purple patch is lack of depth and questionable shot selection. Again, I have no video but if you watch one of her recent matches there will be times when she has options but she chooses to hit the ball right to her opponent and hit it very soft/weak giving them a very easy return shot. True, she never hit oodles of winners but she was once much better at forcing her opponents to hit difficult shots that often resulted in an error. Now far too many of her balls are landing very soft in the middle of the court giving her opponent plenty of time to line up their shots and hit winners.
Both of the above observations are relevant to Caro's game,but I don't see where either one even remotely relates to choking or being mentally weak.In the first instance,you admit that she's trying to improve her forehand so there's a very clear motive there.In the second case,it could very simply be that Caroline doesn't have the confidence to go for challenging shots--on certain,specific points--and is merely trying to keep the ball in play,hoping for an error.As Burisleif also pointed out,she may have struggled at times with the new racket.

With both of the examples you cite above,I can appreciate it if you charge Caroline with bad tactics,but I don't see those things as signs of "becoming" weak...or a choker.....Am off to work,Canuck Amigo
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Opening Soon: The Allaster-Stubbs-Amanmuradova Academy of Feminine Grace and Charm
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:12 PM   #2277
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,816
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
About the choking - EVERY player chokes in my opinion. Even someone like Sharapova who's mentally supposed to be a giant. The only player who rarely if ever chokes is Serena Williams who just knows that she has that monster serve to rely on. Even so, it's hard to deny that Caroline losing leads in sets and failing to serve them out happens much more frequently now than when she was on top. It has nothing to do with giving up on matches, not being focussed enough or that it means less to her than it used to. If anything, it might mean TOO much to her as a result of which she tightens up. Even so - I wouldn't call Caroline mentally weak. There's a difference between choking and quitting. That's what Sharapova's so-called mental strenght comes down to really. She might choke a point or a game away, but as soon as the ball is back in play she's competitive again - she keeps fighting. Caroline is much the same way, although she's less demonstrative about it (no shrieking and a less dominating on-court personality).
Yep - just look at the recent final at Rome. Getting tight when in the lead is the norm in the women's game with all players (except Serena who has her serve to bail her out). It's torture to watch if you re a fan of a player. But it is totally normal and to be expected. and it's often coupled with the player who is behind being more relaxed and maybe for a bit just playing a few shots out of their mind.

But I do think Caro seems to be mentally weak nowadays. As you say - that's nothing to do with not trying. But maybe it's just the terminology that I think she's become mentally weak when you say she isn't. I used to think of Caro as the second toughest player mentally. And I also thought she had this pschological edge over other players that she'd come through and win if it got tough. Now ... well if she's leading or if it's tight - I think the worst.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:46 PM   #2278
country flag goldenlox
Senior Member
 
goldenlox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 86,895
goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute goldenlox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
...

But I do think Caro seems to be mentally weak nowadays. As you say - that's nothing to do with not trying. But maybe it's just the terminology that I think she's become mentally weak when you say she isn't. I used to think of Caro as the second toughest player mentally. And I also thought she had this pschological edge over other players that she'd come through and win if it got tough. Now ... well if she's leading or if it's tight - I think the worst.
Yeah, I think the ability to close is the most important part of a player's game. You have to play well when it matters most or you wasted all the good tennis you played to get close to a win.
An example is her 2 sets with Goerges in Dubai & both sets vs Kerber in Copenhagen. When it was time to close she couldnt hold serve or get a break of serve.

Even if she is trying to be more aggressive, it will never be successful unless she's keeping the ball in play at key moments.

She had 18 titles right after she turned 21. 9 months later, still 18, and I dont see a title coming soon the way she loses close sets.

Like Sharapova's old coach, Joyce, said.. when its 5-5, she's out there alone.
It doesnt matter what the prematch strategy was or what the practice sessions were. She has to figure out how to close. And Caroline has lost the script
__________________
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter....
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there
Enjoy This Moment!!
HEALTH and HAPPINESS to EVERYONE

goldenlox is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 03:37 AM   #2279
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,655
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Yep - just look at the recent final at Rome. Getting tight when in the lead is the norm in the women's game with all players (except Serena who has her serve to bail her out). It's torture to watch if you re a fan of a player. But it is totally normal and to be expected. and it's often coupled with the player who is behind being more relaxed and maybe for a bit just playing a few shots out of their mind.

But I do think Caro seems to be mentally weak nowadays. As you say - that's nothing to do with not trying. But maybe it's just the terminology that I think she's become mentally weak when you say she isn't. I used to think of Caro as the second toughest player mentally. And I also thought she had this pschological edge over other players that she'd come through and win if it got tough. Now ... well if she's leading or if it's tight - I think the worst.
Am going to assume that the Union Jack next to your poster name signifies that you actually ARE a Brit and not merely a fan of the flag colors.

Here's a basic historical illustration to prove my earlier point: Many people would agree that Neville Chamberlain was a weak leader,especially at wartime.There's nothing the Brits could've done to give him the resolve to stand bravely against the nascent Axis threat...he just didn't have that strength within him.In contrast,there's precious little that could've ever made Churchill a weak man.Even the sort of setbacks that would demoralize many folks wouldn't have been enough to break his spirit.

Basically,though there are various levels of strength,one is generally either a weak person or a strong one;one doesn't magically transform from one to the other.I'll agree that,in the loosest sense of the word,Caroline isn't as 'strong' as she's been in the past...but that is a logical by-product of her not having the same unshakable confidence in her newer style of play...and yet she didn't just "become" a fragile,weak person...it isn't a sound principle AT ALL.While I'm not a trained psychologist,one practically earns a degree in the study of human behavior by working for so many years in the penal system.Until I seem some learned commentary,accompanied by video evidence that Caroline lacks the courage to go for obvious point-winning opportunities...or somehow changes her swing into some panicky motion on crucial points.....I'm not gonna believe that she's "mentally collapsing" during matches...any more than I'd believe that Caro was trying to steal some shallow,lying slut's identity
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

Opening Soon: The Allaster-Stubbs-Amanmuradova Academy of Feminine Grace and Charm
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 04:09 AM   #2280
country flag ezone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 260
ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all ezone is a name known to all
Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I don't have any video, and it is not exactly what you are asking for, but one odd thing is her recent habit of moving to her forehand side to hit the ball when she was already in position to hit it with her backhand. I guess the most obvious reason for her doing that is to try to improve her forehand but it seems strange that she is sacrificing her best shot so often in matches. If the end result is a much improved forehand shot then it will have been worth it but I don't think it is wise to neglect her backhand which most people agree is her best shot.

Another change from her purple patch is lack of depth and questionable shot selection. Again, I have no video but if you watch one of her recent matches there will be times when she has options but she chooses to hit the ball right to her opponent and hit it very soft/weak giving them a very easy return shot. True, she never hit oodles of winners but she was once much better at forcing her opponents to hit difficult shots that often resulted in an error. Now far too many of her balls are landing very soft in the middle of the court giving her opponent plenty of time to line up their shots and hit winners.
The big reason for moving to her backhand side to hit a forehand is to establish a new pattern--the inside out forehand. She did that in the first set against Li Na a few years ago at the Australian Open and had great success.

What happens is that an opponent will lean the wrong way which will set up Woz to hit her backhand down the line winner. Her patterns are often too predictable. Even though Woz has a much better backhand tennis remains a forehand dominated game. The inside out in her case should be used to keep opponents off balance and set up her backhand.

Hopefully Woz is trying to keep her racket to the right side of her body on her forehand. If the racket gets behind her back she can not be expected to deliver much power. That would be a tough technical change in her stroke. If she is working in that direction it tells me to remains motivated to win a GS.
ezone is offline View My Blog!  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios