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Old May 13th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #2176
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
We should definitely try to get along. No point in complaining about the bitching at GM if we end up doing the same thing here. If posters have a problem with each other maybe it's best to talk it out in private (by PM) rather than to entertain the tourists we get with it.
I can understand why there's friction here.
Caroline was #1 this year. Its still only May. They've only played 1 major in 2012.
It was a quick dropoff, and I think we are all still trying to understand if this is her game now, and where her fututre will go.

Its hard to be objective without another Caroline fan saying you're too negative
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Old May 13th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #2177
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
After Stuttgart, Madrid was much better for her.
But its the inconsistency, that I havent gotten used to.. yet.
But it looks like this is the way its going to be, so I accept it
Yep - that's true and I can't get used to it either and I really hope she can do somethibng to change it. I think the only difference right now on the way we feel between you and me is maybe that just for a few days I've put that to one side and just feeling happy that she did much better than I thought at Madrid. That could all go away of course depending on what happens next. But I'm not thinking that for the moment.

Plus I really thought at one point it was going to be that Caro would be out the game for a while with an injury. So I was at an even lower point then.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 04:07 AM   #2178
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Well,the intra-forum tension seemed to die down,so NOW we can go back to being tense over hoping for Caroline's best possible tennis results in Rome
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Old May 14th, 2012, 07:39 AM   #2179
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Garrigues and Zheng are on today's schedule (11 AM on Pietrangeli), so Caro may be playing already tomorrow. ES will be transmitting from 11 o'clock and on the two bigger courts the first match is ATP, so I'm assuming we'll get a chance to watch Caro's next opponent.

Edit: Yes, Garrigues - Zheng on ES now.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #2180
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

There's been some nice pics of Caro practicing in Rome, but also a mentioning of hey fever. I just noticed on fairBet, she's 40 without .. and apparently traded as high as 47 Is there some bad news out there?
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #2181
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

I would guess the bad news is her draw.

Its a strange position right now. 3 majors, Olympics & YEC are still left this year. That 5 of the 6 biggest tournaments of 2012 havent been played yet.
Caroline can still have a great year.

But, and its a big but, she was the #1 seed for the last 6 majors and she's going to be seeded 8 or 9 for this major, and probably around 7,8 for Wimbledon and Olympics. Deservedly so, she hasnt won any title in a while, but still can have a great year if she can win a BIG title this year
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Old May 14th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #2182
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by postalblowfish View Post
This forum should be able to deal with people at different ends of the spectrum as regards Woz-related optimism. People from within the forum calling others a troll is the sort of fragmentary approach that we could really do without, esp. given the number of intrusions into the forum from those who aren't Wozniacki fans.
It has nothing to do with levels of optimism, It's about objective well thought out opinion as opposed to posting hyperbole for reaction. The latter IS for effect and fits the given definition well. It's entirely divisive and self indulgent irrespective of whether its complementary or not. You, as a keen admirer of and student of high quality troll technique know this all to well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I can understand why there's friction here.
Caroline was #1 this year. Its still only May. They've only played 1 major in 2012.
It was a quick dropoff, and I think we are all still trying to understand if this is her game now, and where her fututre will go.

Its hard to be objective without another Caroline fan saying you're too negative
Objective, (even if pessimistic) well thought out analysis is fine... It's the subjective mob raising posts that are questionable, and "I'm entitled to my opinion" is not an acceptable defence in our society as a whole, and even less so on a small internet forum. There are a couple of posters that have been regularly divisive since joining this section, and they are fully aware of that fact.

N.B. Singling out your post does not indicate a belief that you are in any way one of those posters... While your posts are sometimes bitter and hard to swallow, they are well reasoned and grounded, and almost always worth reading and informative.

Moving on (and yes that means i'm not going to discuss the above further)...

Caroline and her game... Sport evolves, and it's entirely possible that Caro's game has gone the way of the sweeper system as some have suggested, however, as you point out, the season is young, and we have seen signs that the team has recognised some issues, and is actively addressing them (such as the service issues you have pointed out).

Personally I think Caro is in the process of understanding her own earlier success, and like many players of similar traits will grow into a more polished, and smarter performer on court. That she has a huge but not fully developed talent base to grow from isn't up for dispute. She may not be a classic in terms of pure tennis bionics, but she has buckets of the other key ingredients needed to succeed, and technique can be learned.

A few people mentioned the racquet change. I think it has had an effect, but in a more subtle way than mentioned. It's no secret that I think her natural and instinctive weapons suffered with the switch (her BH reliability), and the "play her forehand" myth is equally attributable to a breakdown from restructuring the stroke with Sven, as it is to reliability issues from a switch. I don't think the switch helped her game, however, I don't think its a permanent obstacle either. At the end of the day, if spin isn't doing the damage it used to, and more spin isn't increasing the damage, then perhaps a return to less spin (and for disruptive variety purposes) in favour of a little more pop wouldn't hurt. I assume that Yonex are fully capable of supplying a stick with a balance between speed ingesting spin and a random unguided rocket launcher? Perhaps the Yonex hasn't demanded the the precision and discipline that the old stick required, leaving a slow erosion of consistency a possibility. She has also stated herself that certain aspects of her stroke repertoire were neglected under the old training scheme.

I have no expectations for the clay season. It's not her ideal surface, slower acceleration and cross court speed, no natural sliding feel... however, If she plays smart tennis, can control the play, and bring her anticipation into play, she has as good a chance as any of the favourite players. One achilles heal we have seen so far is her return of service. Madrid looked very advantageous toward good service, with returning off clay being much harder reaction timing wise. Perhaps she needs to take more considered and offensive gambles with service return positioning, forcing the server to go for more difficulty, or maybe a more defensive one using effective junk to counteract and neutralise? Either way luck will play a part here. I won't be surprised if she wins the FO, nor will I be terribly disappointed if she bombs out early considering the nature of the surface.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 01:08 PM   #2183
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I would guess the bad news is her draw.

Its a strange position right now. 3 majors, Olympics & YEC are still left this year. That 5 of the 6 biggest tournaments of 2012 havent been played yet.
Caroline can still have a great year.

But, and its a big but, she was the #1 seed for the last 6 majors and she's going to be seeded 8 or 9 for this major, and probably around 7,8 for Wimbledon and Olympics. Deservedly so, she hasnt won any title in a while, but still can have a great year if she can win a BIG title this year
Steady progress and I'll be happy. I'd almost be happier with a slow consistent rise than a patchy season with a Slam win thrown in... almost...

But you are 100% correct, it's early not only in her season, but also relatively so in her career...
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Old May 14th, 2012, 01:44 PM   #2184
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

I know I sound pessimistic. Its because she's been losing matches that were winnable. Serving at 4-4 is now a scary proposition.

But overall, the bottom line is that great players win majors.
Any player who was #1 seed in 6 majors in a row should want to be at her best at majors. What she was doing for a full year was special. Very few players could do that. But the last 9 months, a lot of players can do what Caroline's done.

So whatever is going on ( And I dont understand it, unless she just cant focus like she used to) these next 3 majors will tell (most of) the story of her year
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Old May 14th, 2012, 02:06 PM   #2185
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I know I sound pessimistic. Its because she's been losing matches that were winnable. Serving at 4-4 is now a scary proposition.

But overall, the bottom line is that great players win majors.
Any player who was #1 seed in 6 majors in a row should want to be at her best at majors. What she was doing for a full year was special. Very few players could do that. But the last 9 months, a lot of players can do what Caroline's done.

So whatever is going on ( And I dont understand it, unless she just cant focus like she used to) these next 3 majors will tell (most of) the story of her year
I keep thinking of Kim...
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Old May 15th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #2186
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I know I sound pessimistic. Its because she's been losing matches that were winnable. Serving at 4-4 is now a scary proposition.

But overall, the bottom line is that great players win majors.
Any player who was #1 seed in 6 majors in a row should want to be at her best at majors. What she was doing for a full year was special. Very few players could do that. But the last 9 months, a lot of players can do what Caroline's done.

So whatever is going on ( And I dont understand it, unless she just cant focus like she used to) these next 3 majors will tell (most of) the story of her year
I disagree, I think that any player who plays on a reasonably high level can win a major. However, majors are also only tournaments and I don't see them as a proof of brilliance. If a player does well over two weeks that is great but a real measure of how good they are is a long-term performance.

There are players who win a slam but then they just fade. On the contrary there are ones who are unlucky in slams but they win many matches and tournaments and thus are better than slam winners in the end. This is also reflected in their ranking, the system does not lie, IMO. It shows that overall performance is what it always comes down to.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #2187
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

When you look at lists of great players, which went thru their careers without winning majors?
They all won majors, all reached #1
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #2188
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #2189
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Lena never got higher than #3. Lena didnt win a title until she was almost 22
If you want to say she's great, then Myskina is. Then Radwanska is great. She just beat Sharapova in Miami and is about to be #2.

I think its MUCH harder to be a long term #1 than win a slam or 2.
Only a few players have been #1 as long as Caroline.

But if we look back at Caroline's career 20 years from now and summer 2010 thru summer 2011 are her glory days, then her career would not be called great, imo
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM   #2190
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Of course it wouldn't.

I don't understand this argument really. The only great active player is Serena (and possibly Venus). How good someone's career has been is generally judged after they've finished rather than like four years into it.
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