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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 08:00 AM   #1
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Changing the coach

It was already debated here but I really want to open this issue and want to know what you guys think.Everyone here loves Sabine so much, so the point of this topic not the hurt her just to help her tennis. I'm sure if Sabine reads this thread she will get angry but my point is not to judge her team just to talk this topic.

Maybe some of you know that I worked in WTA Championships 2011 Istanbul. I was responsible with the needs of players. Therefore I was spending my all day time with the player and their team. I was a bit sad because Sabine couldn't participate in that tournament. When I had chances to talk with the coaches, tennis authorities, WTA Staff and the players I was asking questions about Sabine( Do you like her game? What do you think about her? etc. )
The common thing they said she is a great player, she has amazing skills which other players doesn't have but she needs to work with a professional coach if she wants to improve her game and climb in the rankings.

A tennis reporter from Germany who watched her in Wimbledon 2011, told me that she was doing amazing jobs but whenever she needed help on her game, her dad was not enough. The success behind the Wimbledon is Sam Stosur's coach David Taylor. He gave her tactics and told her what to do before some of the matches. The problem of Sabine is she has great skills but she is too sensitive on the court. When she dominates the game and serves well, nothing can stop Sabine but if she fails to serve, begin to make errors she is getting demoralize so quickly. Her dad did his best until this time and take her to top15 but now its time for a professional coach. She is young and she will realize this need one day he said...


He was not the only one who said these things.

When I was working in the tournament I watched also Caroline Wozniacki who is coached by her dad Piotr. When I saw their relation, I realized that the father coaches are not always the best choice. In her training Caroline doesn't seem to be relaxed and always arguing with her dad.
I still remember what he said to her "You are a baby still crying, you don't know anything".
I won't compare Mr. Wozniacki with Mr. Lisicki because I never had chance to meet with him but from TV he seems much more friendly and a nice person.

On the other hand, I also watched Kvitova's, Stosur's, Azarenka's, Sharapova's trainning. It's different. The things what they are doing are almost same but the things what their coach saying and telling them was different. As you can see their performance and success on the court is also different.

Now, we all know Sabine has "facepalmesque errors" problem. This is the biggest obstacle on her game. I think the only way to fix this to
changing her coach and have a coach like David Kotyza, Sam Sumyk, Thomas Hogstedt and a hitting partner like Vladimir Voltchkov (Sharapova's hitting partner).

This will not only help her "facepamesque errors" and also improve her game and health (cramps, injuries, retirements).

What do you think guys?
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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #2
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Re: Changing the coach

Wow. After reading the part about Dave Taylor I feel like this thread needs a "BOMBSHELL" at the start of the title.

I do agree with you on most parts. Only very rarely do we see parent-child coaching relationships work in sport. Also, I'm a firm believer in keeping your personal life (family etc) separate from your work/profession (in Sabine's case-- tennis) for obvious reasons. I think a talented player like Sabine with plenty of potential needs a full team around her to cater to her needs. A coach, a fitness trainer, maybe a hitting partner & dare I say it-- a sports psychologist. Her parent's could still travel with her for the moral support & company, but relying solely on one person like her father will most likely not be enough to see her lift the Venus Rosewater Dish one day.

I do feel bad writing this because I have met Dr Lisicki, and he is a really great guy, very friendly and has done a wonderful job helping Sabine break the top 20 & win 3 titles.

Btw, which players did you ask about Sabine if I may ask? I'm gonna guess Sam was one of them.
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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 03:11 PM   #3
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Re: Changing the coach

When I ask players who is coached by her dad/mom they say they prefer this because of their emotional needs. They say a professional coach can't understand what we are feeling on the court and off the court, we may have problems in our private life and when we were traveling we need someone who knows us well. Therefore we choose our dad to coach us.

Maybe they are right but on Sabine situation she really needs a professional team. I don't say her parents should leave her, they should keep travelling with her but they should not touch her tennis. I'm sure Mr. Richard Lisicki has a great tennis knowledge and I'm also sure her mom helps and takes care of Sabine but I believe this is not enough for a player who is a Wimbledon Semi-finalist, Charleston/Birmingham/Texas champion.

I talked with all the players but about Sabine I talked with some of them and their team members. I think giving their name is not fair..

I talked Sharapova's team about the semi final match. I asked what was the key point behind Sharapova's comeback in that match. The guy said "Sabine has has great tennis skills and her tennis suites well on grass. Maria didn't need to do something special, Sabine gifted the match. When she started to fail on serve, she was done. This helped Maria to believe she can win and she started to dominate the match."

Another guy who is coaching a player said "Normally she was able to defeat Vera in Rolland Garros, she played amazing but I still don't know how her team didn't notice she has celiac disease before that time. This is a big fault. She needs a professional team." When he said that I said "If she needs a professional coach why Nick Bollettieri is not helping her and tell her she needs it" he replied "Nick Bollettieri doesn't care his players team, if he believes she has a professional coach, he won't say"

This list will continue like this.

Btw, I also noticed that Marion Bartoli, Andrea Petkovic and Sam loves Sabine so much
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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #4
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Re: Changing the coach

Thank you Geekking , it's nice to heard inside opinion & info.
I'm not sure about changing coach, but I think she definitely needs physio & nutritionist to travel with her. She has too many injuries & food-related problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekking View Post
Btw, I also noticed that Marion Bartoli, Andrea Petkovic and Sam loves Sabine so much
Well, Petkovic because they're both Germen, and Sam, because they play doubles together. But Marion, why?

Anyway, I noticed that after losing to Sabine in Wimby, Marion was waiting for Sabine to left the court together, I thought Marion was just being polite, but now I know it's because she likes Sabine.
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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #5
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Re: Changing the coach

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Originally Posted by tic626 View Post
Well, Petkovic because they're both Germen, and Sam, because they play doubles together. But Marion, why?

Anyway, I noticed that after losing to Sabine in Wimby, Marion was waiting for Sabine to left the court together, I thought Marion was just being polite, but now I know it's because she likes Sabine.
Sabine's dad is general practitioner like Marion's dad. It can help.
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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #6
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Re: Changing the coach

I love Sabine, I'd like to think we all do on here. She gives out so much sunshine & positivity, there must be very few people that could fail to like her. But my chances of bumping into Sabs in the years ahead are 0.00%. So I will give my opinion without fear or favour.

I agree with Geekking - absolutely. Dr Richard Lisicki has done wonders getting his daughter up the rankings & to be the tennis player & person she is today. But those that reach the top are not afraid to make changes if they think it will help them take that extra step - be that winning a slam, or reaching No.1 (in any sport).

You may disagree, but I think Sabs is reaching something of a crossroads at this stage of her career. Her inconsistancy, illness & injuries are threatening to stall her career & derail her progress. There must be SOMETHING that she is doing that is resulting in her recurring problems. OK you can't legislate for food poisoning to an extent, & I still don't know what she ate in China to make her so ill. But how she is training, what she does, etc should be scrutinized by her team. How many niggling injuries must she incur before the penny drops, & someone takes a look at how she trains. Does anyone in her team check into this? You would like to think so, but I'm not sure!

Perhaps complacency has set in - you train with your dad day in day out, do the same things over & over, & no-one notices that what she is doing is causing recurring injuries.

Something needs to change. A fresh pair of objective eyes. I think Sabs should be strong enough to make changes if she wants to avoid languishing in the 10-20 ranking bracket, or worse. Even if those changes are with dad's blessing. Surely he wouldn't stand in her way if he realises it's best for her career.

Yes, I think the time has come, or certainly is arriving, for Sabs to look to the next step. Everyone thinks she has a game to get into the Top 10, even win a slam. At the moment, without changes, I cannot see it.

Is Sabs determined enough to make it? I don't doubt her determination, but whether she is strong enough to change her coach to lift her to the next stage, & dad goes back to being dad, I'm not so sure.
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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 07:38 PM   #7
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Re: Changing the coach

Geekking, as you can see if someone has a success, want to see as many as helpers. Even those who only talk about the weather. It happens in all areas in our life.
For scientists, which steal the inovations.
and the other way around
If a player loses a match, a coach must immediately change.
When Sabine after long injury break,
establish some easy matches lost, some say even very fast, it needs a new trainer.
When she forces to comb, matches won and was silent.
Sabine outcomes after poisoning in Beijing and then worse, the resist outdated.
Determined as a team, coach training partner + + + physiotherapists + fitnestrainer
cooking (as with djokovic)
is a dream
I'm interested in who pays it? Get paid for the tennis player, from national associations?
In Britain, Australia, Turkey unw is so.
In Germany, too?
Why Mona Barthel also flies only with mother?
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Old Jan 5th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #8
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Re: Changing the coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega1 View Post
Geekking, as you can see if someone has a success, want to see as many as helpers. Even those who only talk about the weather. It happens in all areas in our life.
For scientists, which steal the inovations.
and the other way around
If a player loses a match, a coach must immediately change.
When Sabine after long injury break,
establish some easy matches lost, some say even very fast, it needs a new trainer.
When she forces to comb, matches won and was silent.
Sabine outcomes after poisoning in Beijing and then worse, the resist outdated.
Determined as a team, coach training partner + + + physiotherapists + fitnestrainer
cooking (as with djokovic)
is a dream
I'm interested in who pays it? Get paid for the tennis player, from national associations?
In Britain, Australia, Turkey unw is so.
In Germany, too?
Why Mona Barthel also flies only with mother?

Sabine has sponsors and I'm sure if she wants it she can find a way to pay them. She is a top 15 player it won't be a big problem for her . In Turkey, Turkish Tennis Federation pays to players' team if they need but don't know how it works in Germany.(I'm sure the conditions they serve to players are much more better)

I was thinking to debate this before the season start, I talked with my close friends who also supports Sabine and told them what they said.

Sabine's mental problems are not new, if you look my posts you will see that I was thinking changing her coach is not the solution but after talking with lots of tennis authority and seeing the results I changed my mind.

Every player has different needs. Barthel and Sabine are not in the same boat. Their rivals are different and they are not playing the same tournaments! Barthel was an ITF player, she will start to play WTA this year. Having trouble against Barthel doesn't means Sabine and Barthel same level players. Sabine's tennis is 3x better than Barthel. We will see how Barthel will do with her mom this year.

Last edited by Geekking : Jan 5th, 2012 at 08:16 PM.
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #9
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Re: Changing the coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekking View Post
When he said that I said "If she needs a professional coach why Nick Bollettieri is not helping her and tell her she needs it" he replied "Nick Bollettieri doesn't care his players team, if he believes she has a professional coach, he won't say"
This isn't the first time I've heard people talk about Nick Bollettieri like this. He may be part of the problem here.
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 03:21 PM   #10
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Re: Changing the coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by everythingtaboo View Post
This isn't the first time I've heard people talk about Nick Bollettieri like this. He may be part of the problem here.
Nick is an old man now and I doubt he still has a great influence in those things.
I guess the problem is Sab's missing independence and self-confidence. She only trusts in her dads decisions, I wish her to be able to break out one early day

But probably she won't make it true - that means taking a risk...
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #11
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Re: Changing the coach

Bei allem Verständnis und Frust über diese schmerzliche Niederlage von Sabine müssen wir aber erstmal die Kirche im Dorf lassen. Es war ihr 1. Turnier 2012, dass sicherlich nicht ganz so gelaufen ist wie wir uns das alle gewünscht haben. Ich bin eigentlich vor allem sehr erschrocken gewesen, wie schwach wieder einmal ihr Aufschlag war, auch schon im Spiel gegen Barthel, so dass man eigentlich beim Aufschlag kaum von einer Stärke bei ihr reden kann zur Zeit. Hatte mir erhofft, dass in der Vorbereitung vor allem dort angesetzt wird und sie endlich mal auf vernünftige Werte kommt und vielleicht sogar einen guten 2. raus hauen kann.

Aber hier geht es mir schon einen Schritt zu weit von euch. Ist ja nicht so, als wäre es jetzt schon Juli und wir sehen keine Verbesserungen. Erstmal abwarten wie die nächsten Turniere laufen, erst dann kann man mehr sagen. Finde ich irgendwie kurios, wenn schon jetzt ein Trainerwechsel verlangt wird. Wer sagt denn, dass dann auch alle Schwächen abgestellt werden?

Ich kann euch schon verstehen, weil ihr euch Sorgen macht um Sabine, aber ich würde noch nicht so weit gehen, einen Trainerwechsel als umumgänglich darzustellen. Vielmehr muss sie jetzt wieder Matchpraxis sammeln und Vetrauen in ihr Spiel finden und vor allem das Wichtigste: Bitte keine Verletzungen oder Krankheiten mehr!

Wer übersetzt ins englische?
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #12
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Re: Changing the coach

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Originally Posted by Lisickifan84 View Post
Wer übersetzt ins englische?
Loddar Matthäus style hätte ich drauf
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #13
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Re: Changing the coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisickifan84 View Post
Ich kann euch schon verstehen, weil ihr euch Sorgen macht um Sabine, aber ich würde noch nicht so weit gehen, einen Trainerwechsel als umumgänglich darzustellen. Vielmehr muss sie jetzt wieder Matchpraxis sammeln und Vetrauen in ihr Spiel finden und vor allem das Wichtigste: Bitte keine Verletzungen oder Krankheiten mehr!

Wer übersetzt ins englische?
Nicht nötig, ich hab es verstanden
Und du hast Recht, die Verletzungen haben ja (höchstwahrscheinlich)nichts mit ihrem Training zu tun, vielleicht einfach Pech
Ich will auch lieber positiv denken und hoffe einfach mal dass sie Entwarnung zum. für die AO gibt
und bin dann mal weg aus der Diskussion.
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #14
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Re: Changing the coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisickifan84 View Post
Wer übersetzt ins englische?
Bin auch `n bisschen Faul für!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerlinPower View Post
Nicht nötig, ich hab es verstanden
Und du hast Recht, die Verletzungen haben ja (höchstwahrscheinlich)nichts mit ihrem Training zu tun, vielleicht einfach Pech
Ich will auch lieber positiv denken und hoffe einfach mal dass sie Entwarnung zum. für die AO gibt
und bin dann mal weg aus der Diskussion.
Naja, dass sie keine Updates gibt ist ja normalerweise eher ein schlechtes Zeichen bei ihr.

Trainerwechsel find ich auch ein bisschen ne harsche Forderung, aber ein Müller-Wohlfahrt-Typ in ihrem Team wär bestimmt keine schlechte Idee
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Old Jan 7th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #15
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Re: Changing the coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisickifan84 View Post
Bei allem Verständnis und Frust über diese schmerzliche Niederlage von Sabine müssen wir aber erstmal die Kirche im Dorf lassen. Es war ihr 1. Turnier 2012, dass sicherlich nicht ganz so gelaufen ist wie wir uns das alle gewünscht haben. Ich bin eigentlich vor allem sehr erschrocken gewesen, wie schwach wieder einmal ihr Aufschlag war, auch schon im Spiel gegen Barthel, so dass man eigentlich beim Aufschlag kaum von einer Stärke bei ihr reden kann zur Zeit. Hatte mir erhofft, dass in der Vorbereitung vor allem dort angesetzt wird und sie endlich mal auf vernünftige Werte kommt und vielleicht sogar einen guten 2. raus hauen kann.

Aber hier geht es mir schon einen Schritt zu weit von euch. Ist ja nicht so, als wäre es jetzt schon Juli und wir sehen keine Verbesserungen. Erstmal abwarten wie die nächsten Turniere laufen, erst dann kann man mehr sagen. Finde ich irgendwie kurios, wenn schon jetzt ein Trainerwechsel verlangt wird. Wer sagt denn, dass dann auch alle Schwächen abgestellt werden?

Ich kann euch schon verstehen, weil ihr euch Sorgen macht um Sabine, aber ich würde noch nicht so weit gehen, einen Trainerwechsel als umumgänglich darzustellen. Vielmehr muss sie jetzt wieder Matchpraxis sammeln und Vetrauen in ihr Spiel finden und vor allem das Wichtigste: Bitte keine Verletzungen oder Krankheiten mehr!

Wer übersetzt ins englische?
How about Google Tranny, y'all?

"With all due respect and frustration over this painful defeat by Sabine but first we have to leave the church in the village. It was their first Tournament in 2012, that certainly did not go quite as as we wanted it to be. I am really mainly been very frightened, as was her weak serve again, even in the game against Barthel, so you really can hardly speak of the impact strength at a time for her. I had hoped that in the preparation and recognized especially where it finally comes to healthy values ​​and perhaps even a good second can cut out.

But this is me one step too far from you. Is not as if it were already July and we see no improvements. First wait for the next tournaments such as running, only then can you say. Somehow I find curious, if already a coaching change is required. Who says that then all weaknesses are turned off?

I can tell you already understand, because you are worried about Sabine, but I still would not go so far as to represent a change of coach as umumgänglich. Rather, they must now re-match practice and gain confidence from their game and see especially the most important thing: Please no more injuries or illnesses?"

Sounds funny, but comprehensible, I think for our English speaking Boom Boom friends.
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