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View Poll Results: Bigger gap on clay

Henin over Serena 117 49.37%
Nadal over Federer 120 50.63%
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 04:01 AM   #361
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
You can deal with "what ifs" if you like but the evidence suggests that the gap between Nadal and Federer is greater.
if you say so
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 04:19 AM   #362
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by homogenius View Post
if you say so
I'm not saying, it's the statistics that are saying it.

Losing three consecutive French Open finals to the same player is pretty bad and suggests that the gap between the two are very wide. You are biased or blind if you can't see that.
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 06:44 AM   #363
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
You are coming up with these terms "pound for pound skill" and "accomplishment on clay" and yet I've already provided the statistics that prove that the gap is bigger between Federer and Nadal. These are stats. I'm not making them up.

If Federer was young and Nadal achieved those records before Federer became a full force, you might put an asterisk next to those stats but all those achievements were attained when Nadal was the younger, less experienced one and Federer at the peak of his powers except maybe last year's final.

The statistics prove that Nadal is a far superior player (on clay) to Federer despite being many years younger than him and that is why the gap between them is larger.

Fact is, if Federer were closer to Nadal in terms of clay court ability, he should've won 2006 or 2007 French Open finals. Those were the years when he won the other 3 slams also.

As for Serena and Justine. I have absolute confidence that if at their best Serena has a better chance to beat Justine on clay than Federer against Nadal. That's because Serena proved with the Serena Slam that she is equal to any woman on any surface at her best by holding all four slams at the same time.

Who else has done that? Steffi Graf. Isn't she the one everyone says is an all-surface wonder? Why then, when the same achievement is achieved, the same credit is not given? Agenda?
what stats are you talking about????
federer has been beaten by nadal on clay several times because he was good enough to reach the stage where nadal usually is - THE FINALS!

whereas when was the last time serena has reached the finals of the french open? when has she last won a title on red clay???

no one is saying nadull is not superior player to federer on clay.HELL nadull is superior player to EVERYONE on clay but WHY WHY WHY can't you get into your head that in the list of all time greats the gap between nadal and federer much narrower than the gap between henin and serena


and what statistics can u give to prove that gap between henin and serena is narrower
the fact that serena has not been able to reach final stages on clay for almost 10 years now?
the fact that she only met henin 5x on clay (mostly in part due to serena just not getting very far on clay a lot of times) and beat henin ONCE out of those 5x?
the fact that serena NEVER beat henin at french open (same as federer not being able to beat nadal)
so what are these stats u speak of that are supposedly SOOOOO much in serena's favor

LOL
just keep making stuff up as you go along

federer was at least able to bagel nadal on clay once and took nadal to 5 sets in red clay of rome
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:16 AM   #364
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by nealcaffrey View Post
what stats are you talking about????
federer has been beaten by nadal on clay several times because he was good enough to reach the stage where nadal usually is - THE FINALS!

whereas when was the last time serena has reached the finals of the french open? when has she last won a title on red clay???

no one is saying nadull is not superior player to federer on clay.HELL nadull is superior player to EVERYONE on clay but WHY WHY WHY can't you get into your head that in the list of all time greats the gap between nadal and federer much narrower than the gap between henin and serena


and what statistics can u give to prove that gap between henin and serena is narrower
the fact that serena has not been able to reach final stages on clay for almost 10 years now?
the fact that she only met henin 5x on clay (mostly in part due to serena just not getting very far on clay a lot of times) and beat henin ONCE out of those 5x?
the fact that serena NEVER beat henin at french open (same as federer not being able to beat nadal)
so what are these stats u speak of that are supposedly SOOOOO much in serena's favor

LOL
just keep making stuff up as you go along

federer was at least able to bagel nadal on clay once and took nadal to 5 sets in red clay of rome
The statistics are there. Right there in the first post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by justineheninfan View Post
Breaking it down:

Federer has won 14% of his matches vs Nadal on clay. Serena has won 20% of her matches with Justine Henin on clay.

Federer has 1 French Open to Nadal's 6. Serena has 1 French Open to Henin's 4. The bigger gap there is Federer vs Nadal.
I'm not making anything up. You are the one making stuff up as you go along as you will now come back definitely with a comment about how Federer was able to make the finals. To which I'll already say SO WHAT? This ISN'T about Federer's ability against ATP No. 3-infinity. This is about Federer VS. Nadal. And the facts are there to prove to Nadal outperformed Federer percentage-wise than Justine did over Serena.

Even if you strip down everything else and look purely and only at French Open titles won which is generally how one's ability on clay is judged, Nadal has 6 French Opens to Federer's 1. Justine has 4 to Serena's 1. What's the bigger gap? Nadal-Federer, duh! And you think I'm making up stuff.
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:29 AM   #365
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
The statistics are there. Right there in the first post:



I'm not making anything up. You are the one making stuff up as you go along as you will now come back definitely with a comment about how Federer was able to make the finals. To which I'll already say SO WHAT? This ISN'T about Federer's ability against ATP No. 3-infinity. This is about Federer VS. Nadal. And the facts are there to prove to Nadal outperformed Federer percentage-wise than Justine did over Serena.

Even if you strip down everything else and look purely and only at French Open titles won which is generally how one's ability on clay is judged, Nadal has 6 French Opens to Federer's 1. Justine has 4 to Serena's 1. What's the bigger gap? Nadal-Federer, duh! And you think I'm making up stuff.
so it is federer's fault that serena was only able to meet henin 5x on clay???
you're so stupid it hurts

if you are basing it on h2h purely then YOU ARE REALLY STUPID
so murray is a better hard court player than federer because he has positive h2h on federer in that surface

and since you're going by french open you would know serena also NEVER beat serena in french open just the same as federer is not able to beat nadull
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:32 AM   #366
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by nealcaffrey View Post
so it is federer's fault that serena was only able to meet henin 5x on clay???
you're so stupid it hurts

if you are basing it on h2h purely then YOU ARE REALLY STUPID
so murray is a better hard court player than federer because he has positive h2h on federer in that surface

and since you're going by french open you would know serena also NEVER beat serena in french open just the same as federer is not able to beat nadull
So which gap is greater again? Serena vs Juju on grass or Serena vs Juju on clay?
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:34 AM   #367
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
So which gap is greater again? Serena vs Juju on grass or Serena vs Juju on clay?
for me - henin's gap on serena on clay is bigger than serena's gap on henin on clay..henin reached 2 wimbledon finals, and was able to beat serena on wimbledon

i like serena A LOT MORE than henin but man you serena tards really need so much validation for serena it's kind of pathetic
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #368
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by nealcaffrey View Post
serena also NEVER beat serena in french open
I should hope not. You're arguing on the basis that because Federer is so successful AGAINST everyone else that he is somehow disadvantaged against Nadul.

That makes NO SENSE at all. If Federer is closer in ability against Nadal, he should've won more matches against him on clay. If he even converted one of the 4 finals he lost, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But he didn't. We know Federer is a better player on clay compared to the rest of the tour than Serena is on clay. You keep trying to prove that and I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion since we all agree. But that doesn't mean the gap between Federer-Nadal is still greater than between Serena-Justine. It doesn't matter who is in between. This is not a ranking system.

At his best, Nadal is near unbeatable on clay. Look at his winning streak. But Justine is not and very beatable especially by Serena, the player of this generation who won the Serena Slam. It's not really that hard.
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #369
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by nealcaffrey View Post
for me - henin's gap on serena on clay is bigger than serena's gap on henin on clay..henin reached 2 wimbledon finals, and was able to beat serena on wimbledon

i like serena A LOT MORE than henin but man you serena tards really need so much validation for serena it's kind of pathetic
4-0 is < than 4-1?! Very interesting..
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:42 AM   #370
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

guys here aren't interested in tennis. only compare some numbers and stats and say gap fed-nadal is bigger than henin-williams

we aren't talking about accomplishments. every fool can compare this at wikipedia or other homepages. serena could never back up her fo performance 2002. never reached the semifinal again, nowadays she lose in r1 against razzano, while fed still manages to take a place in the semifinal, and who knows, maybe he will play another rg-final this year. even schiavone is a better claycourter than serena, cause at least she managed to reach the final again after her title 2010. to your logic, gap between ivanovic, myskina or kuznetsowa and henin is also smaller than the gap fed-nadal.
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:42 AM   #371
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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I should hope not. You're arguing on the basis that because Federer is so successful AGAINST everyone else that he is somehow disadvantaged against Nadul.

That makes NO SENSE at all. If Federer is closer in ability against Nadal, he should've won more matches against him on clay. If he even converted one of the 4 finals he lost, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But he didn't. We know Federer is a better player on clay compared to the rest of the tour than Serena is on clay. You keep trying to prove that and I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion since we all agree. But that doesn't mean the gap between Federer-Nadal is still greater than between Serena-Justine. It doesn't matter who is in between. This is not a ranking system.

At his best, Nadal is near unbeatable on clay. Look at his winning streak. But Justine is not and very beatable especially by Serena, the player of this generation who won the Serena Slam. It's not really that hard.
but again what are the statistics that prove that henin's gap is smaller against serena than nadal over federer?
if you're going to harp on H2H again then you have to also state that murray is a better hard courter than federer if H2H on a surface is your end all be all
fact is you have no statistics to actually back your claim

also you choose to ignore that during his peak years federer was able to stake VERY competitive matches against nadal on red clay and took nadal to 5 sets in rome
he also bageled nadal on clay during his peak

federer at his very peak can make a match competitive against nadal on clay
same as you claim serena at her peak can compete well against henin on clay
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #372
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
4-0 is < than 4-1?! Very interesting..
what do you mean 4-0? their h2h on grass is 1-1 which as your fellow serena tard SAM L keeps pushing is the end all be all when it comes to measuring the gap
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #373
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
At his best, Nadal is near unbeatable on clay. Look at his winning streak. But Justine is not and very beatable especially by Serena, the player of this generation who won the Serena Slam. It's not really that hard.
what does "serena slam" has to do with this thread???
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:51 AM   #374
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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what do you mean 4-0? their h2h on grass is 1-1 which as your fellow serena tard SAM L keeps pushing is the end all be all when it comes to measuring the gap
4 wimbledons to 0 for Juju. 4 rg for juju, 1 for Serena.
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Old Jun 6th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #375
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Re: Bigger gap on clay- Serena vs Henin or Federer vs Nadal

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
4 wimbledons to 0 for Juju. 4 rg for juju, 1 for Serena.
for me it is a cumulative effort. i can't just look at one statistic and make my conclusion
henin has 1-1 h2h on serena on grass, was able to beat serena on wimbledon and reached 2 finals, winning 0
serena has 1-4 h2h on henin on clay, was never able to beat henin in french open and reached 1 final, winning 1

so based on these stats for me henin just is a bit closer to serena on grass than serena is to henin on clay
it's not such a big difference but i look at the stats and i make that conclusion
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