[ma re]

Fred and I were discussing bonus points and how we need to change something for 2013. Tournaments of the lowest category (Internationals) are too valuable in terms of bonus points at 120, and we also think that there should be 5 tournament categories, just like in real tennis, as opposed to three we had so far (those five would be grand slams, premier mandatory events, premier 5 events, regular premier events and internationals). We also think that the top 3 categories should award bonus points for top 12 players, while the remaining two should only award top 8.

So after several failed attempts we came up with what seems like a good bonus point system, based largely on the actual WTA point system but with consideration to differences between actual tennis and tipping as a game. So you are welcome to tell us if you would like it implemented starting with 2013.

Grand Slam:

1st: 400
2nd: 275
3rd/4th: 200
5th-8th: 120
9th-12th: 60

Premier Mandatory:

1st: 250
2nd: 175
3rd/4th: 125
5th-8th: 80
9th-12th: 40

Premier 5:

1st: 225
2nd: 150
3rd/4th: 100
5th-8th: 75
9th-12th: 35

Premier:

1st: 150
2nd: 100
3rd/4th: 75
5th-8th: 50

International:

1st: 100
2nd: 75
3rd/4th: 50
5th-8th: 30


GRAPHIC REPRESENTATION OF PROPOSED BONUS POINTS BY TOURNAMENT CATEGORY:

[Håkon]

I still don't think this is the potentially best system, but it's an improvement.

[MarkNL]

This is better than the current system so I voted yes

[ma re]

We forgot to mention how "Special events" would look in the new system - regular tournament points would remain the same, while only the bonus points would change to...

Istanbul
1st: 325
2nd: 225
3/4: 150
5-8: 100

Sofia
1st: 120
2nd: 90
3/4: 60
5-8: 40

Olympics
1st: 150
2nd: 120
3rd: 90
4th: 70
5-8: 50
9-12: 35

[ma re]

Just bumping the thread a little...

[Frederik]

forgot to subscribe after I voted

[ma re]

Ten (10) days until the closing of the poll!

Just sayin'

[coolfish1103]

Kinda late to write this but anyways:

The maximum points on offer from a

128 Draw: 247 points
R64 Draw: 120 points
R32 Draw:  57 points

Rather than award a flat amount of points, why not % bonus based on points earned? This will make performance matter in a tournament.

          GS/PM   P5      PREM     INTL
WIN       x 3     x 2     x 2      x 1.5
RUP       x 2.4   x 1.7   x 1.7    x 1.3
3-4       x 2.0   x 1.5   x 1.5    x 1.15
5-8       x 1.6   x 1.3   x 1.3
9-12      x 1.3   x 1.15

Round them if needed.

So if you earn 220 points from AO,

       %   Flat
WIN  = 660 620
RUP  = 528 495
3-4  = 440 420
5-8  = 352 340
9-12 = 286 280

[ma re]

@ coolfish1103: thanks for your suggestion. Something similar was posted in the discussion threads by SamR03A (Haakon), but his idea centered around limiting the number of players that would get points in each round. The goal, however, was similar to what you have in mind, to reward more generously the number of correct picks, and not as much wins in advanced rounds. We decided, however, to go for something different, although in a similar direction - to make big tournaments more important than they were so far, which will be something interesting to try in the coming season.

If I understand correctly, you suggest here to abolish bonus points completely and just multiply tournament points with 1,5 for IS, 2 for Premiers etc.? If that's the case, the idea is interesting, but I see one possible problem with it. See, with tournament points we often get ties, which are resolved through guessing the number of games etc. If your idea would be implemented, these ties in points would also transfer to the ranking list (cause - example - 40x1,5=60 so if several people would have 40 points at the end of an IS, they'd also all have 60 points from that tournament). This would increase the risk of having ties in the rankings at the end of the season as well, when top 8 have to qualify for the YEC.

I'm not saying the whole idea is bad, just that you maybe haven't really thought everything through. Of course, whenever you have an idea for which you think that it could improve the game, feel free to post it in one of the discussion threads

[Håkon]

Originally Posted by ma re

@ coolfish1103: thanks for your suggestion. Something similar was posted in the discussion threads by SamR03A (Haakon), but his idea centered around limiting the number of players that would get points in each round. The goal, however, was similar to what you have in mind, to reward more generously the number of correct picks, and not as much wins in advanced rounds. We decided, however, to go for something different, although in a similar direction - to make big tournaments more important than they were so far, which will be something interesting to try in the coming season.

If I understand correctly, you suggest here to abolish bonus points completely and just multiply tournament points with 1,5 for IS, 2 for Premiers etc.? If that's the case, the idea is interesting, but I see one possible problem with it. See, with tournament points we often get ties, which are resolved through guessing the number of games etc. If your idea would be implemented, these ties in points would also transfer to the ranking list (cause - example - 40x1,5=60 so if several people would have 40 points at the end of an IS, they'd also all have 60 points from that tournament). This would increase the risk of having ties in the rankings at the end of the season as well, when top 8 have to qualify for the YEC.

I'm not saying the whole idea is bad, just that you maybe haven't really thought everything through. Of course, whenever you have an idea for which you think that it could improve the game, feel free to post it in one of the discussion threads

Well, you could use the TBs to determine the multiplier - so if the table is

1) Frederik 41pts * 1.5
2) coolfish 40pts * 1.3
3) Håkon 40pts * 1.15
4) ma re 40pts * 1.15

the rankings would be

1) Frederik 61.5pts
2) coolfish 52pts
3) Håkon 46pts
4) ma re 46pts

You're correct that it would tie 3rd and 4th, but that already happens under the current system.

Have to say I like coolfish' suggestion more. In fact, possibly more than my own.

[ma re]

Originally Posted by Håkon

You're correct that it would tie 3rd and 4th, but that already happens under the current system.

Right. I figured that once I already posted

So the idea is not bad at all, but it still came quite late for 2013 and the proposed idea is much more thuroughly prepared. Let's wait and see what Fred has to say about this.

[coolfish1103]

Yeah I know it came late so you guys don't have to use it

I forgot the existence of the 3 odd tournaments, so the problems might be over there.

Olympics can just use P5 multiplier since it's 64 draw, so no problem there.

Current system of points awarded for Istanbul and Sofia is different, so

Max 139 points for Istanbul (9*12+10*2+11*1)
Max  94 points for Sofia    (6*12+7*2+8*1)

Sofia can use PREM multiplier

 %     Flat
188 vs 214
160 vs 184
141 vs 154
122 vs 134

Istanbul can use GS/PM multiplier but while trying to figure this out, I found that both systems have problems because Indian Wells/Miami may potentially award more points than Istanbul with R96 draws.

Proposed System
- IW/Miami 215 + 250 = 465 points
- Istanbul 139 + 325 = 464 points

% System
- IW/Miami 215 * 3 = 645 points
- Istanbul 139 * 3 = 417 points

To fix this?

Proposed System
- would have to up the bonus points, or
- up the points per match (Like 15 per RR, 16 per SF, 17 for F), or
- discard IW/Miami R96

% System
- up the points earned per match (Like 15 per RR, 16 per SF, 17 for F), or
- discard IW/Miami R96

If upped the points Istanbul will award MAX 229 points

Istanbul with GS/PM multiplier

 %     Flat
687 vs 554
550 vs 454
458 vs 379
366 vs 329

Istanbul with modified multiplier (2.5/2.05/1.75/1.45)

 %     Flat
572 vs 554
469 vs 454
401 vs 379
332 vs 329

[ma re]

So that's it, the poll is closed, too bad we couldn't get more people to participate but that's always the problem in the off-season. New point system coming up in Brisbane, Dec. 30th 2012