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Old Sep 11th, 2011, 09:17 PM   #1
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Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

Just to clarify, is it 24 or 26?
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Old Sep 12th, 2011, 12:29 AM   #2
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

In 1968, the tennis world was going through an upheaval during the move to "open" tennis. Two US Championships were held that year- the amateur, I believe, was held in Boston at Longwood Cricket Club, and the newly crowned US Open at Forest Hills. Margaret Court won the amateur title in Boston, defeating Maria Bueno in the final. Virginia Wade defeated Billie Jean King at Forest Hills for the inaugural US Open title. Most pundits don't count the amateur title in Court's major record, but some do, which gives her 25 majors. Even Margaret says in her biography that she won the US Championships in 1968, but, in her words, "unfortunately, I won the wrong one". I think I got my facts right, but please (anyone) correct me if I'm wrong with anything.
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Old Sep 12th, 2011, 03:53 AM   #3
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

It's 24.

That's right. She won US amateurs in 1968 and 1969 which are not recognised.

It's like the World Hard Court Championships and the French National Championships. They are separate events and you can't count both of them.
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Old Sep 12th, 2011, 08:15 AM   #4
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post
It's 24.

That's right. She won US amateurs in 1968 and 1969 which are not recognised.

It's like the World Hard Court Championships and the French National Championships. They are separate events and you can't count both of them.
I think Ann Jones and Arantxa Sanchez Vicario should get together and compare spoiler notes. Margaret won both the amateur and professional US titles in 1969. In fact, were it not for Jones' fantastic effort in taking Court out in the semis of Wimbledon, we be talking two real Grand Slams in a row for Margaret. Arantxa, as we all know, threw a monkey wrench into Steffi Graf's plans at the 1989 French.
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Old Sep 13th, 2011, 12:17 PM   #5
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

it's 24.. she is the all time singles record holder of grand slam titles,... with graf at 22 and martina and chrissie tied at 18....

did anyone catch at the recently completed u.s. open how the commentators during serena's final match made note of who had the most grand slam singles titles in the open era?...

they listed graf at 22, evert and martina at 18 and serena at 13... no mentioned was made of margaret court AT ALL? then i thought " oh wait, they meant the open era, so i guess they don't count margaret's wins before 1968....

still think the commentators should have included something like "margaret court has the all time record of 24 but some of her grand slam singles titles occured before 1968, the open era.... etcetera"...

of course that is if the commentators knew their tennis history which i highly doubt ( mcenroe? enberg? LOL! carillo?!)... like i've said it many times before the true tennis fans know more about the game than the commentators!....
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 12:49 AM   #6
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

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Originally Posted by laschutz View Post
it's 24.. she is the all time singles record holder of grand slam titles,... with graf at 22 and martina and chrissie tied at 18....

did anyone catch at the recently completed u.s. open how the commentators during serena's final match made note of who had the most grand slam singles titles in the open era?...

they listed graf at 22, evert and martina at 18 and serena at 13... no mentioned was made of margaret court AT ALL? then i thought " oh wait, they meant the open era, so i guess they don't count margaret's wins before 1968....

still think the commentators should have included something like "margaret court has the all time record of 24 but some of her grand slam singles titles occured before 1968, the open era.... etcetera"...

of course that is if the commentators knew their tennis history which i highly doubt ( mcenroe? enberg? LOL! carillo?!)... like i've said it many times before the true tennis fans know more about the game than the commentators!....
They do the same thing when chirping the virtues of Martina Navratilova having the "most titles". Margaret Court is close to, if not holder of more than 200 tourney titles. Billie Jean King's numbers are also subject to this "open era" deceptive banter. You can bring up Dodo Cheney and take the argument even further. I know for a fact that Martina is a terrific student to women's tennis history and statistics, but I can't recall ever hearing her correct anyone regarding the real stats. Billie Jean just plain doesn't live in the past or even think about stats. Social change is more important to her, and much like Chris Evert, you get the feeling she doesn't even like talking about what happened in the past. Chris actually forgets most of it!
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 02:19 AM   #7
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laschutz View Post
did anyone catch at the recently completed u.s. open how the commentators during serena's final match made note of who had the most grand slam singles titles in the open era?...

they listed graf at 22, evert and martina at 18 and serena at 13... no mentioned was made of margaret court AT ALL? then i thought " oh wait, they meant the open era, so i guess they don't count margaret's wins before 1968....

still think the commentators should have included something like "margaret court has the all time record of 24 but some of her grand slam singles titles occured before 1968, the open era.... etcetera"...
Dick Enberg DID note Margaret Court's record.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 05:08 AM   #8
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laschutz View Post
it's 24.. she is the all time singles record holder of grand slam titles,... with graf at 22 and martina and chrissie tied at 18....

did anyone catch at the recently completed u.s. open how the commentators during serena's final match made note of who had the most grand slam singles titles in the open era?...

they listed graf at 22, evert and martina at 18 and serena at 13... no mentioned was made of margaret court AT ALL? then i thought " oh wait, they meant the open era, so i guess they don't count margaret's wins before 1968....

still think the commentators should have included something like "margaret court has the all time record of 24 but some of her grand slam singles titles occured before 1968, the open era.... etcetera"...

of course that is if the commentators knew their tennis history which i highly doubt ( mcenroe? enberg? LOL! carillo?!)... like i've said it many times before the true tennis fans know more about the game than the commentators!....
Commentators like Navratilova, Evert, Shriver, Austin, and Carillo are all part of the Navratilova/King clique which is not fond of Court (and to a lesser extent Graf), and thus try and unfairly sweep her under the rug as if she never existed. Many Americans are probably deluded into believing Court wasnt event the best player of that era, and that King was, LOL!

Mcenroe doesnt even care about womens tennis much, especialy players any earlier on than Evert or Navratilova.

Enberg is the most knowledgable and balanced of the group.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 08:26 AM   #9
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

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Originally Posted by alfajeffster View Post
I think Ann Jones and Arantxa Sanchez Vicario should get together and compare spoiler notes. Margaret won both the amateur and professional US titles in 1969. In fact, were it not for Jones' fantastic effort in taking Court out in the semis of Wimbledon, we be talking two real Grand Slams in a row for Margaret. Arantxa, as we all know, threw a monkey wrench into Steffi Graf's plans at the 1989 French.
That's true. Not really a big fan of ASV but I'm glad she existed and won that match. Otherwise, we will never stop hearing about the 9 slams in a row.

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Originally Posted by justineheninfan View Post
Commentators like Navratilova, Evert, Shriver, Austin, and Carillo are all part of the Navratilova/King clique which is not fond of Court (and to a lesser extent Graf), and thus try and unfairly sweep her under the rug as if she never existed. Many Americans are probably deluded into believing Court wasnt event the best player of that era, and that King was, LOL!

Mcenroe doesnt even care about womens tennis much, especialy players any earlier on than Evert or Navratilova.

Enberg is the most knowledgable and balanced of the group.
That's true but on the other hand, numbers aren't everything. You can't just say that a player is greater or better because they have more slams. I think they are perhaps considering other factors.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #10
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

To Martina's credit, she has (and I've sat up each time it happens) on several occasions had very good things to say about Margaret Court's serve. The latest was a pretty good observation on Court's second serve, which Martina said was hit nearly as hard as the first, but with a slight twist to it. She also pointed to that as the reason she double faulted so much- because the first and second were pretty much the same pace without much spin.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 09:43 AM   #11
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

P.S.- I tend to agree with Rod Laver and Pete Sampras. Margaret has 24 majors, but only one Slam, and it's all 4 majors in one calendar year. I know, semantics, but it's true. Novak didn't win 3 slams this year- 3 majors. Had he stopped Roger at the French, he most probably would have joined Laver and Budge. It's an elite, short list, and IMO should be revered as the game's ultimate achievement Court won 3 majors in the same year 4 other times outside of her Grand Slam!
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 10:31 AM   #12
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

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Originally Posted by alfajeffster View Post
P.S.- I tend to agree with Rod Laver and Pete Sampras. Margaret has 24 majors, but only one Slam, and it's all 4 majors in one calendar year. I know, semantics, but it's true. Novak didn't win 3 slams this year- 3 majors. Had he stopped Roger at the French, he most probably would have joined Laver and Budge. It's an elite, short list, and IMO should be revered as the game's ultimate achievement Court won 3 majors in the same year 4 other times outside of her Grand Slam!
In a way, yes. But I find Martina's 45 consecutive grand slam matches in 1983/84 more impressive than The Grand Slams won by Connolly, Court and Graf.

And Federer is greater than Laver and Budge imo.

It's special but it isn't the game's ultimate achievement.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 07:26 PM   #13
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

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That's true but on the other hand, numbers aren't everything. You can't just say that a player is greater or better because they have more slams. I think they are perhaps considering other factors.
That is true also. However they take things to an extreme. As I said most American casual fans are probably led to believe even King was better than Court.
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Old Sep 14th, 2011, 09:02 PM   #14
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

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...It's special but it isn't the game's ultimate achievement.
If only everyone could float like Federer, Goolagong and Edberg at their best. There was a time when I could float across the tennis court, but, like most of the decade of the 80s, I just can't seem to remember much of it.
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Old Sep 15th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #15
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Re: Does Margaret Court have 24 or 26 slams?

true, most people the casual public that is probably haven't even heard of margaret court! much less know that she was better than billie jean in terms of ability and winning.... of course this is nothing new in our society and culture today, not just america but the world.... takes too much time... they don't care enough to know and find out.... etcetera could be said about any subject matter... it just sucks for us tennis experts/fans/ amateur historians that we love the game so much and want people to know the reality and truth of tennis history and it's champions and we're shouting to a public that doesn't and won't hear.... i guess that's why i get upset and mad when so called "tennis commentators/experts" don't know themselves or won't clarify and explain and give the right information to the masses when tennis is on television, which isn't that much in the first darn place... they have the eyes and ears of the public a few times of the year.. and because of their own bias, stupidity or like daze11 said in another post.... they HAVE to say what the network and producers want them to say and omit other things to get ratings.... guess that is why CBS showed serena's little temper tantrum what 3 times and lame carillo had to bring it up yet again after the match on court during the post match interview! all about controversy negativity getting ratings... sad that is this what america wants to see and know and hear about?!
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