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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 11:32 PM   #1636
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Your post is a perfect example why formal contracts with players are signed to protect one's investment.

The club invests lots of $$$ into hopefully talented, yet completely unknown young players - like a 11-year-old Tomas Berdych in 1996 or a 16-year-old Petra Kvitova in 2006, while hoping they will develop a new tennis star and get their money back.

But they know that when their player breaks through or even wins a Wimbledon (they have obviously learned their lesson - see the Hingis example above) that other agents/managers/clubs will want to entice the new-born star away and they may lose a lot of money.

Thus, e.g. Tomas Berdych's contract includes a clause that he must not play for a different club (at least for a certain period). Petra's contract should also contain some restrictions or even sanctions if she suddenly leaves and relocates.
PS: If Petra wanted to she could get out of this contract easy (even in the Czech Republic). Last time, I told you practically speaking (Petra leaving the country, PR at home, how the courts favor the talent, etc), and how developing artist and athletes is not easily quantifiable. OK. Let's look at it your way ("everything you claim Cernosek has done for Petra").

If Petra said "I don't want to be with him anymore", and they went to court. The courts would ask Cernosek to provide all the developmental tennis cost he spent on Petra at Prostojev. And let's even say he said $200,000, and Petra agreed on all of it. OK, so they would ask Petra to pay the $200,000 and maybe another $100-$200000 for his services and/or future earnings (within a reasonable time frame). Thats it. Petra could buy him out for $250 to $400,000 (probably less, but I'm using your Cernosek friendly example). And she's gone. Keep in mind, Petra can also say XX $ Cernosek made off of her, helped pay back those development cost in the first place. But I was using your straight Cernosenk example.

Now, how else would Cernosek have a future claim on Petra? What could he provide her, if she wanted leave that she couldn't get somewhere else? She doesn't need him to play tennis. And She's not a slave or forever indebted to him. I'm glad you said the word "investment". OK. Petra would pay back his "investment" (if that) and move on. Think about it? That's all it would take (generally speaking). That's how the court works in these cases.

This is not like an Actor and a movie company or broadcaster; a artist and a record company or a NBA player vs his team.

Those institutions actually PAY HIM or HER (the talent) a lot of money for the artist to leave would have to buy them out or forfeit payment on their contract $$ by walking away, and/or getting sued for it. Managers and Agents only RECEIVE smaller percentages/payments, not generate the actual income.

Plus, the Record company, Broadcaster, Movie House, Sports team/NBA provide him/her the distribution or apparatus (THE NBA, TV station, record distribution and radio play, and Movie house distribution and promotion, etc.) which prove their se value to the artist/athlete. This is what I mean when I say Cernosek is not a content provider or distributor, and is only ancillary to the process. So it wouldn't be hard to walk away from him, or for Petra to BUY OUT Cernosek in comparison. That's why movement happen so frequently with athletes, artist and their managers and agents. Cernosek provides a service like anything/anyone else. And if Petra doesn't like it, she can freely move on (unless there's money owed and that's worked out). She's not forever indebted to him. Anyone can say they manage someone successful or famous. How hard is that? They would have to prove they provide a service essential for future payment (such as cutting certain endorsement deals). However, he'd have little claim in Tennis, cause Cernosenk is neither the talent or the distribution, so even if he claimed he helped assist her development, it means nothing (or not much) to her success. And even with the endorsements, the courts would lean more toward the artist/player if they were already successful and famous, when negotiated.

So if Cernosek negotiated any endorsement deals for Petra--outside of Tennis, and could prove it/that he was essential, sure he would get XX $$/% of those deals and they could continue as they are till they expired or Petra could buy him out of those as well (depending on the amount of payment expected and if she wanted to). And the same goes for her appearances (if they're even written into the contract) to play at Extralagia, Prague 100K, Fed Cup or any other Cernosek sponsored event. Not hard to finish/fulfill or to exit from.

So, in my opinion, this wouldn't be as hard as you think Petronius. And the tennis management part would be SO easy. Honestly, Cernosek wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on, if Petra wanted to leave (even in the Cernosek Crony Czech Republic). Case closed. And of course, she could make it even simpler, and just leave the country altogether.

Sorry!
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:36 AM   #1637
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

Guys,you're definitely on topic while discussing Petra's management,yet all of this lengthy legal talk over the specific stipulations of her contract is getting REALLY,really boring......could we just get back to Petra's activities and flush the legal stuff down the toilet?....please?
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 09:05 AM   #1638
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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could we just get back to Petra's activities
We donīt know much. Her PR is not very good.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 09:36 AM   #1639
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by paulmara View Post
We donīt know much. Her PR is not very good.
Yes,Paul,but I don't have any obsessive need to stay attuned to Petra's current doings;it's the offseason so she's doing personal stuff.If I wanted to get THAT close to Petra's camp,I'd apply for a job as Prosto's obedience trainer

My point was that contract law is a fairly boring-ass topic,and we don't have to belabor any debate over every possible ramification of contract stipulations.Ultimately,this would only be relevant if Petra WANTED to be freed from her contract to seek someone else...and needed encouragement from her fans to do so.There's not much evidence of that as she appears quite content with the Pyle brothers,Dr.Pikola,et al.

P.S.: Am going back to bed...hopefully for at least 5 more hrs....so seeya later,Experto de Olimpicos Polares
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 12:07 PM   #1640
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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We donīt know much. Her PR is not very good.
So maybe jerriy was right, that Canadian PR lady is a waste of pay
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 12:09 PM   #1641
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
PS: If Petra wanted to she could get out of this contract easy (even in the Czech Republic). Last time, I told you practically speaking (Petra leaving the country, PR at home, how the courts favor the talent, etc), and how developing artist and athletes is not easily quantifiable. OK. Let's look at it your way ("everything you claim Cernosek has done for Petra").

If Petra said "I don't want to be with him anymore", and they went to court. The courts would ask Cernosek to provide all the developmental tennis cost he spent on Petra at Prostojev. And let's even say he said $200,000, and Petra agreed on all of it. OK, so they would ask Petra to pay the $200,000 and maybe another $100-$200000 for his services and/or future earnings (within a reasonable time frame). Thats it. Petra could buy him out for $250 to $400,000 (probably less, but I'm using your Cernosek friendly example). And she's gone. Keep in mind, Petra can also say XX $ Cernosek made off of her, helped pay back those development cost in the first place. But I was using your straight Cernosenk example.

Now, how else would Cernosek have a future claim on Petra? What could he provide her, if she wanted leave that she couldn't get somewhere else? She doesn't need him to play tennis. And She's not a slave or forever indebted to him. I'm glad you said the word "investment". OK. Petra would pay back his "investment" (if that) and move on. Think about it? That's all it would take (generally speaking). That's how the court works in these cases.

This is not like an Actor and a movie company or broadcaster; a artist and a record company or a NBA player vs his team.

Those institutions actually PAY HIM or HER (the talent) a lot of money for the artist to leave would have to buy them out or forfeit payment on their contract $$ by walking away, and/or getting sued for it. Managers and Agents only RECEIVE smaller percentages/payments, not generate the actual income.

Plus, the Record company, Broadcaster, Movie House, Sports team/NBA provide him/her the distribution or apparatus (THE NBA, TV station, record distribution and radio play, and Movie house distribution and promotion, etc.) which prove their se value to the artist/athlete. This is what I mean when I say Cernosek is not a content provider or distributor, and is only ancillary to the process. So it wouldn't be hard to walk away from him, or for Petra to BUY OUT Cernosek in comparison. That's why movement happen so frequently with athletes, artist and their managers and agents. Cernosek provides a service like anything/anyone else. And if Petra doesn't like it, she can freely move on (unless there's money owed and that's worked out). She's not forever indebted to him. Anyone can say they manage someone successful or famous. How hard is that? They would have to prove they provide a service essential for future payment (such as cutting certain endorsement deals). However, he'd have little claim in Tennis, cause Cernosenk is neither the talent or the distribution, so even if he claimed he helped assist her development, it means nothing (or not much) to her success. And even with the endorsements, the courts would lean more toward the artist/player if they were already successful and famous, when negotiated.

So if Cernosek negotiated any endorsement deals for Petra--outside of Tennis, and could prove it/that he was essential, sure he would get XX $$/% of those deals and they could continue as they are till they expired or Petra could buy him out of those as well (depending on the amount of payment expected and if she wanted to). And the same goes for her appearances (if they're even written into the contract) to play at Extralagia, Prague 100K, Fed Cup or any other Cernosek sponsored event. Not hard to finish/fulfill or to exit from.

So, in my opinion, this wouldn't be as hard as you think Petronius. And the tennis management part would be SO easy. Honestly, Cernosek wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on, if Petra wanted to leave (even in the Cernosek Crony Czech Republic). Case closed. And of course, she could make it even simpler, and just leave the country altogether.

Sorry!
Interesting post, but pure speculation and theory unless and until Petra REALLY wants to move elsewhere. So far I haven't registered any info that she is unhappy and wants to leave the Prostejov academy.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 01:03 PM   #1642
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Yes,Paul,but I don't have any obsessive need to stay attuned to Petra's current doings;it's the offseason so she's doing personal stuff.
I donīt care about photos from Maldives but their meeting about her new team is very important for 2013 season.

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So maybe jerriy was right, that Canadian PR lady is a waste of pay
She is better than Karel Tejkal
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 02:53 PM   #1643
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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I donīt care about photos from Maldives but their meeting about her new team is very important for 2013 season.
Well,of COURSE Petra's team is important,but that doesn't require any marathon discussion on contract law....Tienes que comprar boletos para Lucha greco-romano de los osos polares;es un evento MUY popular y los asientos desaparecen rapidamente
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 05:59 PM   #1644
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
So maybe jerriy was right, that Canadian PR lady is a waste of pay
I could do better as her PR...
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:14 PM   #1645
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Guys,you're definitely on topic while discussing Petra's management,yet all of this lengthy legal talk over the specific stipulations of her contract is getting REALLY,really boring......could we just get back to Petra's activities and flush the legal stuff down the toilet?....please?
Sorry about the Mumbo Jumbo.

I'll be the first to own up to that. But what else are we gonna talk about now anyway?

Plus, Petronius made it sound/wanted to believe that Petra's basically in chattel slavery and servitude for Cernosek, and I was just showing (not just telling) him why not.

And we really don't know what Petra's thinking, if she's actually communicating with Slozil and considered not playing Extraliga, while not automatically committing to Fed Cup when asked?

We also don't know who reads these blogs and the media, and may give Petra feed back on what they think, if/when they talk to her or are asked?

Chances are Petra's not leaving anytime soon. But we'll see and learn/hear more in the future (and can hope)?
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:30 PM   #1646
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Interesting post, but pure speculation and theory unless and until Petra REALLY wants to move elsewhere. So far I haven't registered any info that she is unhappy and wants to leave the Prostejov academy.
True indeed.

I was just responding to your post, that Petra was basically Cernosek's House Maid/Servant/property (joke) for the foreseeable future in order to "protect his investment"

And she's not; nor wouldn't be (if she wanted more freedom/input or even considered breaking away).
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:37 PM   #1647
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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has Petra already thought about changing, instead of being changed? has Cernosek realized his strategy might have already hurt Petra's career? both of them, have they realized the relationship within the team would not lead to where they had imagined a year ago?

are they afraid of losing each other? or Cernosek implied "don't you dare!", which i highly doubt, as you mentioned, more great players would come from that amazing facility, then Petra might simply be "dumpable".....

who speaks for Petra at that time......?
This Černošek-Petra thing is overblown. He may require her to play Extraliga in December, but it's actually good practice before the season. Hingis played two singles matches and one doubles match in the 1997 Extraliga finals (held indoors of course) and then won her 2nd Aussie Open in a row in January 1998. Not to mention that between the matches she and her mom were busy negotiating endorsement deals with international agents and Martina even cancelled some interviews for Czech magazines. Petra's life is much easier. But as Složil said, she needs to hit the gym and get rid of a few kilos.

And yeah, surely they can break up in the future, who knows, but I doubt it will be any time soon. She has cutting-edge facilities at her disposal and a family just one hour drive away. And if she needs a summer training camp, she drives to the Vienna Airport and after a short flight she's in Turkey on a beach.

BTW, nice example from the Formula 1.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:43 PM   #1648
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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I could do better as her PR...
Go ahead!
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:53 PM   #1649
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Sorry about the Mumbo Jumbo.

I'll be the first to own up to that. But what else are we gonna talk about now anyway?

Plus, Petronius made it sound/wanted to believe that Petra's basically in chattel slavery and servitude for Cernosek, and I was just showing (not just telling) him why not.

And we really don't know what Petra's thinking, if she's actually communicating with Slozil and considered not playing Extraliga, while not automatically committing to Fed Cup when asked?

We also don't know who reads these blogs and the media, and may give Petra feed back on what they think, if/when they talk to her or are asked?

Chances are Petra's not leaving anytime soon. But we'll see and learn/hear more in the future (and can hope)?
Well,I wasn't angry or anything;it's just not a very entertaining read sometimes...the sort of stuff you read only when you HAVE to cuz you're facing a lawsuit.

As I said,it's sort of irrelevant for now,unfortunately,because Petra doesn't show any indication of seeking more objective,fair-minded management
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Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 10:20 PM   #1650
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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I donīt care about photos from Maldives but their meeting about her new team is very important for 2013 season.
I need some bikini shots of her for drooling purposes we need more Petra in GM, some nice offseason photos can do it


btw, bikini photos could be used for some science to assess her "fitness" condition, since tennis uniform is clear misfit and real life cloth can hide her belly
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