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Old Nov 20th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #1621
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
But that contract (even if it was written that way--which we know it's not) has nothing to do with him picking Petra's coaches, fitness people, etc., which he appears to do. That's why he always chooses his words carefully, when he discusses it publically (although his arrogance won't allow him to have complete discretion). It's not his place to.

Secondly, it means nothing. Like I said: If Petra left the country tomorrow, and moved some where else and claimed citizenship, there's not a damn thing Cernosek could do. If anything, he may look bad complaining about Petra to the Czech media, if she claimed she was mis/micromanaged under Cernosek. His hands would be tied.

Like I say: These things happen all the time in entertainment and sports (talent leaving the people they actually pay or who get a cut of their revenue). And the contracts aren't usually long anyway (unless Petra's that stupid). This is so the player or artist can move freely if/when unhappy or seek a better opportunity.

Outside of him being Czech, I don't see any benefit Cernosek provides Petra, that any other manager couldn't? If anything, he appears to be limiting her opportunities (both promotional, self development and tennis wise).

I mean, does she even get to hit with Berdych, anytime they're in the same town or event? Who cares about taking photos or promoting Czech tourism regions with him. Do like Slozil, and have Petra actually hit with Tomas, instead of hitting with the Prostojev teen boys or Adam (and who knows, maybe he's a Cernosek plant as well). SMH Who's to say he didn't nurture that relationship?
Your post is a perfect example why formal contracts with players are signed to protect one's investment.

The club invests lots of $$$ into hopefully talented, yet completely unknown young players - like a 11-year-old Tomas Berdych in 1996 or a 16-year-old Petra Kvitova in 2006, while hoping they will develop a new tennis star and get their money back.

But they know that when their player breaks through or even wins a Wimbledon (they have obviously learned their lesson - see the Hingis example above) that other agents/managers/clubs will want to entice the new-born star away and they may lose a lot of money.

Thus, e.g. Tomas Berdych's contract includes a clause that he must not play for a different club (at least for a certain period). Petra's contract should also contain some restrictions or even sanctions if she suddenly leaves and relocates.
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Old Nov 20th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #1622
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Your post is a perfect example why formal contracts with players are signed to protect one's investment.

The club invests lots of $$$ into hopefully talented, yet completely unknown young players - like a 11-year-old Tomas Berdych in 1996 or a 16-year-old Petra Kvitova in 2006, while hoping they will develop a new tennis star and get their money back.

But they know that when their player breaks through or even wins a Wimbledon (they have obviously learned their lesson - see the Hingis example above) that other agents/managers/clubs will want to entice the new-born star away and they may lose a lot of money.

Thus, e.g. Tomas Berdych's contract includes a clause that he must not play for a different club (at least for a certain period). Petra's contract should also contain some restrictions or even sanctions if she suddenly leaves and relocates.
Two major things going on here Petronius.

Getting someone when their young and new, means you're holding all the leverage. Once they become successful, you virtually have none.

The way I see it, Csernosek is not far from a gangster, if he signs people to these type agreements. And Hingis owed him nothing, if she signed young and left young. You may know more about that story though.

The reason why I made the Gangster reference?....Because, they're Academies all over the world that a player can go to--simply if they have the money, the sponsors and/or the talent--to lure either. However, they're not signed to an exclusive agreements with the academy like Cernosek does (that extends into management, playing for the club, playing certain events, etc.). They're separate. And many of them are only interested in teaching tennis. If nothing else, Cernosek is like a Czech Monopoly/Mafia. He wants his hand in everything and every level--it appears.

Nonetheless, after saying all that, what I said is still true. If Petra left the Czech Republic tomorrow, Cernosek would get nothing. Just look at the Hingis example. I'm sure he signed her to the same/similar agreements (or now he has since/if he didn't). He just mad he can't do nothing about it (Hingis).

He's lucky that he has a dutiful, patriotic young lady/Czech--in Petra Kvitova--for now.

However, even in the Czech Republic (you may know more about this than I), he may still get nothing in return or less than what you think if he sued her Petronius. He's intermediary and ancillary and not essential to the process (unless his local political connections kick in).

In lawsuits of this type--in Capitalist countries, courts usually lean towards the either the content provider (the talent) or the distributor/outlet (the corporation). The intermediaries and ancillaries--such as Cernosek--in this discussion as a manager, usually get short shrift compared to the actual Talent or Distributor, cause they're not essential to the process and performance or the public enjoyment. And it's hard to quantify what they deserve, when it's arbitrary to the value and services they actually provide (unless it's someone like a wife that provided for their husbands law school). And even that's hard to quantify many times.

Just imagine if Petra, Serena and Masha (the talent) had a dispute with the WTA (the corporation), preventing any tennis?

No one cares who their lawyers and managers are, especially if they're hindering progress/a settlement towards tennis.

Just think about it? If there was no Futbul or Ice hockey being played in The European League or the Czech Republic: Do you (Petronius), the public or your friends care about who the players managers are(When's the last time you heard a fan scream or curse a lawyer or manager over a Sports/entertainment labor dispute)?....No! Of course not!

The overwhelming majority don't know/wanna know, or could care less who they are. They just want the principles to come together.

And no matter how you slice: On the world (where Petra belongs to now--sorry), WTA, ITF/Grand Slam tennis Level, Cernosek is NOT A Principle (even with his his Prague 100K). He's easily avoidable, ignored or replaceable. He just is.
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 03:03 AM   #1623
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

just curious when did Mr Cernosek start to find the talent in Petra? did he provide any guidance or help before her transition into WTA, like when she was 17, 18ish?
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 04:34 AM   #1624
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Your post is a perfect example why formal contracts with players are signed to protect one's investment.

The club invests lots of $$$ into hopefully talented, yet completely unknown young players - like a 11-year-old Tomas Berdych in 1996 or a 16-year-old Petra Kvitova in 2006, while hoping they will develop a new tennis star and get their money back.

But they know that when their player breaks through or even wins a Wimbledon (they have obviously learned their lesson - see the Hingis example above) that other agents/managers/clubs will want to entice the new-born star away and they may lose a lot of money.

Thus, e.g. Tomas Berdych's contract includes a clause that he must not play for a different club (at least for a certain period). Petra's contract should also contain some restrictions or even sanctions if she suddenly leaves and relocates.
There's at least some legitimacy to what you've said about contracts: I know with near certainty about a particular player--NOT Petra,thank goodness--who signs all of her team members to ironclad confidentiality agreements.Some of those now-fired assistants offer concocted,phony-sounding praise about what a sweet gal their ex-boss supposedly is(even though hidden camera footage has long since revealed what an unbearable shrew she can often be)...you can just tell that these former aides were paid well to keep quiet....OR face serious civil penalties for not doing so.There's also some truth to what 'Ex' posted,so I suppose that it all largely depends on the nature and terms of the contract
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 12:40 PM   #1625
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Djokovic's additions to his team worked very well, except the serve experiment. He changed his diet, increased his conditioning, cured his health ailments, and got tougher, while adding more skill to his tennis arsenal. I think it worked.

The issue with Petra is, everyone seems to come from her Managers stable, as opposed to the tennis world in general (outside of his network). And they have made a series of critical mistakes through out 2012--hampering Petra, which have been discussed ad nauseum here. Sure questionable parents or management has happened to other players before. The question is, when will Petra wake up, notice, make her own decisions or care, if she's not being helped?

Petra can train outdoors in Monaco, Italy or Spain. It doesn't have to be in America (though many players live/train there, cause there's an abundance of tennis talent and facilities).

Remember, the Australian's an outdoor event. And though people couldn't really put there finger on it at the time, we knew one of the reasons why Petra didn't play as well on outdoor hard court in NA (though they were several reasons), was her affinity of practicing indoors in Europe at Prostojev. It was psychological.

Petra's team may very well prove to be excellent in 2013. So I don't doubt your speculation or advice of patience. However, they haven't given us too many reasons to feel the same in 2012. There were many self inflicted screw ups too numerous to re-hash.

Maybe it's just growing pains for her team in tandem with Petra's "transitional/adjustment" year following her 2011 success and expectations. But an argument can be made she's outgrown them, or at least Petra needs additional/new people or advisors and perspective.

And here in lies much of our concern. We don't know if Petra or any of her people, are comfortable or even allowed to seek anyone in the tennis world to advise, assist, coach or work with her in any capacity. Her manager, has already indicated publically--virtually boasting, that he chooses her coaches that she and Kotyza can choose from. He also boasted that he talked her into Extraliga 2012, and almost promised he could talk her into Fed Cup 2013 as well (both events he has a financial, status and political interest in--I may add), that Petra could benefit skipping, or delaying her commitment.

They're too many apparent conflicts of interest and pressure placed on Petra as well, under the current arrangement. That cannot help. It must get better or change.

One more deviation to Djokovic - my point was that he achieved everything with virtually the same team he's had for years. The only additional member was the nutritionist who got him on a gluten-free diet. For me, it's best to be coached/advised by just one person, otherwise you might get lost into the different perspectives people have on your game. Navratilova may be helpful with advise on dealing with pressure, but when it comes to purely tennis, the person who spends most time with her (Kotyza) should know her best. We all think Petra is introverted, so she probably would feel stressed if she has to change her coach or accept new people. As you said, she's dealing with enough pressure from media, Kotyza seems like a guy who can make her relax and smile and his calm character seemingly gets through to Petra. So I say give him at least 6 months to prove he's still beneficial to Petra's game.

I totally agree that Cernosek pressuring Petra to play Extraliga and all those off court commitments is too much. But it's understandable given that he's a manager looking to maximize his profit. I don't like talking about a person as a product, but for managers they are. So while Cernosek shouldn't be the one choosing new team members, I certainly think he's not that stupid to choose staff just because he owes favours. He knows that if his "product" is unsuccessful he's losing money, so I'm that that much concerned about this side of his involvement. (What happened to Jozef Ivanko, I haven't seen him around in a while.)
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 12:50 PM   #1626
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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What happened to Jozef Ivanko, I haven't seen him around in a while.
He´s working with juniors (He was relocated = fired)
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 01:51 PM   #1627
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He´s working with juniors (He was relocated = fired)
"Relocated"=cleaning out the incontinent lemur stalls at Cermosek's children's zoo,right??Fortunately,Petra's pet isn't quite so messy except for when he meets someone whom he doesn't like
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 02:19 PM   #1628
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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One more deviation to Djokovic - my point was that he achieved everything with virtually the same team he's had for years. The only additional member was the nutritionist who got him on a gluten-free diet. For me, it's best to be coached/advised by just one person, otherwise you might get lost into the different perspectives people have on your game. Navratilova may be helpful with advise on dealing with pressure, but when it comes to purely tennis, the person who spends most time with her (Kotyza) should know her best. We all think Petra is introverted, so she probably would feel stressed if she has to change her coach or accept new people. As you said, she's dealing with enough pressure from media, Kotyza seems like a guy who can make her relax and smile and his calm character seemingly gets through to Petra. So I say give him at least 6 months to prove he's still beneficial to Petra's game.

I totally agree that Cernosek pressuring Petra to play Extraliga and all those off court commitments is too much. But it's understandable given that he's a manager looking to maximize his profit. I don't like talking about a person as a product, but for managers they are. So while Cernosek shouldn't be the one choosing new team members, I certainly think he's not that stupid to choose staff just because he owes favours. He knows that if his "product" is unsuccessful he's losing money, so I'm that that much concerned about this side of his involvement. (What happened to Jozef Ivanko, I haven't seen him around in a while.)
Thanks again Iva_ds87. Good to hear from you once more.

You're saying Djokovic maintained the same doctor as well? And he never brought in specialist to work on different elements of his game?

I'm sure Radwanska, Petrova, Li Na and Sharapova WOULD NOT agree with you, that it's always best to keep the same coaches.

I do agree with you however, that Petra's (at this point) doesn't have to get rid of Kotyza. She just may need other people to help her deal with strategy, goals/expectations and overall pressure. She also needs a hitting partner, and to work on her ROS, and bring back more consistency to her Serve in general.

I don't think Petra's introverted. She's just spoiled (or talks when she wanna talks). If you ever see Petra at those black tie Gala's she always appears radiant. Even in more lighter moments on television, she's always bubbly. I just think she likes her privacy and what she wants, when she wants it. So if she doesn't want another coach--that can help her--that's being spoiled indeed.

Why not get a manager that doesn't force you to play Extraliga and do these other events then? I understand HIS goals, but they don't have to be Petra's goals. Plus, she can always say no. And if that creates too many problems: Change Managers or leave the Czech Republic (as many of these big stars do from smaller countries to get away from the pressure and multiple engagements their asked to attend at home). Now if that's part of Petra's contract and she wants honor it--oh well. The irony is, Petra will make Cernosek much more money winning more Grand Slams and the associated endorsements that come with it, than playing in Extraliga and Fed Cup with out those Grand Slam, Olympic and YEC titles. Pressure or no Pressure, Cernosek should see that to. No?

The problem with Csernosek choosing Petra team members are, will he choose someone outside of his network--if he CAN'T find someone appropriate within it? For example, Slozil said that Petra should contact Djokovic's coach--whose clearly outside of Cernosek's network. You think he wants/would allow that?

More importantly, shouldn't the coach, the player and their advisors know/choose team members? Why would you let the manager do it? He's not a tennis person. The reason why he would do it, is so he could choose his own people. Otherwise; it makes no sense.

Thanks again for your comments and perspective, during the off season.
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 02:25 PM   #1629
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

There are degrees of spoiledness and,if Petra is,indeed,spoiled,she's still not nearly as bad as several other players
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 03:18 PM   #1630
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

Dudes I thought you supposed to post news or articles in here!
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 03:20 PM   #1631
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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just curious when did Mr Cernosek start to find the talent in Petra? did he provide any guidance or help before her transition into WTA, like when she was 17, 18ish?
This has been discussed many times before. She joined the Prostejov academy as a 16-year-old after she broke through at the Czech Republic's most important junior tournament. Until that she competed for and practiced at the tennis club in her home town of Fulnek.

I have no doubt Černošek & Co. had been following her closely before the triumph at the junior tournament.

In 1998, Černošek even founded M Sport Servis, a company that supports talented young players in many ways (obtaining wild cards, providing coaches who travel with the player, brokering potentially lucrative contracts between players and equipment/clothing manufacturers, etc.)

This is obviously just one piece of the puzzle.

Overall, Černošek's contribution to Czech tennis and the first-ever Hopman/Fed/Davis hattrick is simply huge.

It is very likely that the impressive system and facilities built by Černošek & Co. will produce more great players in the future.

And it's obvious that if you have the best tennis facilities in CZ or Central Europe, the talent will naturally gravitate to you.
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 05:56 PM   #1632
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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This has been discussed many times before. She joined the Prostejov academy as a 16-year-old after she broke through at the Czech Republic's most important junior tournament. Until that she competed for and practiced at the tennis club in her home town of Fulnek.

I have no doubt Černošek & Co. had been following her closely before the triumph at the junior tournament.

It is very likely that the impressive system and facilities built by Černošek & Co. will produce more great players in the future.
thank you, i knew i had missed a lot info here :/

the reason i asked is i was thinking about another genius Lewis Hamilton, similar example, who was signed by Ron Dennis's young driver support program which would cover all his racing fees as long as he wins every level of championships, young Lewis didn't disappoint his manager, and more, he won the formula one championships as well in 2008

no one would imagine the break up of this duo several years ago, but now Lewis' departure from McLaren is confirmed, the reason as Lewis describes, he wants to win and he wants to be happy

and the relationship within a team, no matter how strong it might seem at one time, often being irreversible once the equilibrium is broken, from my point of view, what happened this year is more than enough to cause such instability, has Petra already thought about changing, instead of being changed? has Cernosek realized his strategy might have already hurt Petra's career? both of them, have they realized the relationship within the team would not lead to where they had imagined a year ago?

are they afraid of losing each other? or Cernosek implied "don't you dare!", which i highly doubt, as you mentioned, more great players would come from that amazing facility, then Petra might simply be "dumpable".....

who speaks for Petra at that time......?
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 06:22 PM   #1633
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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He´s working with juniors (He was relocated = fired)
What did he do to become uncomfortable to Cernosek?


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I'm sure Radwanska, Petrova, Li Na and Sharapova WOULD NOT agree with you, that it's always best to keep the same coaches.

You're saying Djokovic maintained the same doctor as well? And he never brought in specialist to work on different elements of his game?

I don't think Petra's introverted. She's just spoiled (or talks when she wanna talks). If you ever see Petra at those black tie Gala's she always appears radiant. Even in more lighter moments on television, she's always bubbly. I just think she likes her privacy and what she wants, when she wants it. So if she doesn't want another coach--that can help her--that's being spoiled indeed.

Thanks for your nice words

I meant have just one tennis coach at a time, not don't ever change him/her. Of course if you see things aren't working, you should get a new coach. Wozniacki and Sanchez didn't work out, because her father was still involved.

Djokovic has had the same coach and physio since 2007 and just changed the fitness coach and worked with a nutritionist (Cetojevic) for a year, who discovered his gluten-intolerance, which improved even more his fitness. I'm hot sure whether Slozil means him.

I wouldn't call Petra spoiled, for me she's still getting used to having to say the same thing over and over again. Agree she likes privacy and is uncomfortable with too much media attention. She looks radiant at off court events, because she's beautiful and has professional make-up done

I think Cernosek still thinks he can provide Petra everything she needs and she'll win more Slam titles AND still satisfy his wishes. If his appointments don't work out anymore, he will search for outside help, he might be self-serving, but not insane. I guess Petra might feel somehow indebted to him (and have an unbreakable contract) for helping her into Prostejov initially and is reluctant to look for a new manager. Also I'm not sure any manager in the world would promise you that you won't have to attend any off court activities. It doesn't matter whether it's in the Czech republic or abroad, there's time you have to dedicate to your sponsors. Look at Wozniacki - at some point she was everywhere and she recently remarked it got too much.

Side note: Just out of curiosity, what is Safarova's arrangement, how come Cernosek didn't sign her?
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 06:57 PM   #1634
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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What did he do to become uncomfortable to Cernosek?
Petra was injured a lot. Černošek had to fire someone.
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Old Nov 21st, 2012, 08:03 PM   #1635
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by iva_ds87 View Post
What did he do to become uncomfortable to Cernosek?





Thanks for your nice words

I meant have just one tennis coach at a time, not don't ever change him/her. Of course if you see things aren't working, you should get a new coach. Wozniacki and Sanchez didn't work out, because her father was still involved.

Djokovic has had the same coach and physio since 2007 and just changed the fitness coach and worked with a nutritionist (Cetojevic) for a year, who discovered his gluten-intolerance, which improved even more his fitness. I'm hot sure whether Slozil means him.

I wouldn't call Petra spoiled, for me she's still getting used to having to say the same thing over and over again. Agree she likes privacy and is uncomfortable with too much media attention. She looks radiant at off court events, because she's beautiful and has professional make-up done

I think Cernosek still thinks he can provide Petra everything she needs and she'll win more Slam titles AND still satisfy his wishes. If his appointments don't work out anymore, he will search for outside help, he might be self-serving, but not insane. I guess Petra might feel somehow indebted to him (and have an unbreakable contract) for helping her into Prostejov initially and is reluctant to look for a new manager. Also I'm not sure any manager in the world would promise you that you won't have to attend any off court activities. It doesn't matter whether it's in the Czech republic or abroad, there's time you have to dedicate to your sponsors. Look at Wozniacki - at some point she was everywhere and she recently remarked it got too much.

Side note: Just out of curiosity, what is Safarova's arrangement, how come Cernosek didn't sign her?
Well at this point, Cernosek is acting like Petra's father.

With Wozniaki, it appears her father has reached the limits of coaching her, but doesn't want to let go. In Cernosek's case, I don't think he wants to let go either. Piotr goes around the world for Caro's people, and gives them no real chance. Cernosek, can't even be bothered to pretend to look/go around the world-- like Caro's father does, and gives no one a chance outside his network.

Well, I would love to see Petra consult with a fitness coach or nutriitonist--outside of his Network, like Djokovic did.

Yes, I think Slozil meant contact Djokovic's coach, so Petra could find out about his nutritional, physio and medical team. Maybe he meant coaching tips to? I don't know.

When I called Petra radiant, I was including her personality, enthusiasm and overall glow. Even during press conferences and interviews, Petra can be very fun, magnetic, self assured and alluring (in her own way).

Some of us have speculated, the reason why Cersoenek hasn't gone outside of his network (though it would make sense): Because he's afraid of losing Petra to someone else. Apparently, he lost Martina Hingis, after working with her. I don't know. He could also be overtly nationalistic and stubborn as well. But his decisions (or lack of them) can certainly hinder Petra in the future, especially when Cernosek's choices appear limited to his own network.

Not every manager is a Tennis facility owner, Tournament Promoter, Involved in Tourism and politics--in general or in your home country. There are many managers that just manage. And unless your with a big time Agency--like CAA or IMG, William Morris, etc., your responsibilities should be limited. Petra has enough responsibility from the WTA and her sponsors. However, other responsibilities shouldn't come because of her managers own self serving interest. Petra's did her part already. Prostojev and Cernosek's Sports Grp, will forever be known for producing Petra Kvitova. One of the problems is, he still wants Petra to play in his events, when she should practice, rest or heal. That's bad!

Wozniaki, was EVERY WHERE, because both she and her father tried to sign up every $$ deal that she could. But at least she got paid for it. I'm not sure Petra gets much $$ (if anything) playing Cernosek's tournaments, outside of paying a debt or responsibility to him.

No contract of their type is unbreakable. This was discussed above. As I said, athletes/entertainers break up with their managers all the time. Timey Winey, gave an example with F1 Driver--Lewis Hamilton as well. It's very hard for an intermediary to win big over a talent (content) provider. And lengthy contracts are usually not signed by the talent or enforced against them--when they do by the courts (cause the intermediaries are not essential for the delivery of the product).

To my knowledge, Safarova and Berdych are part of Cernosek's management and are Prostojev members as well.

No one knows what happened to Ivanko. And some of us think he was re-assigned or let go Cernosek.

Ironically, last year--Ivanko claimed he was such a hot commodity, that Piotr (Caro's father) was hot and heavy for him. Now, I think he's supposed to be working with the Prostojev boys. But I don't know.

And we're always NICE here (at least most of the time).
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