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Old Aug 21st, 2011, 07:00 PM   #151
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

Under 'Julia Görges' Maybe must whote For fans of Juliology.
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Old Aug 21st, 2011, 07:29 PM   #152
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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Originally Posted by Skoo View Post
I saw the match and I knew You people are weird. You didn't see Julia's matches at Wimby either

Anyway, Petra was hitting one UE after another. If you saw Federer vs. Berdych, she was spraying about as much as Roger.
Ok, well you're lucky then... but I can only imagine.

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Yes, but we must also consider the fact that Petra doesn't suddenly collapse. Well, not most of the time. She does that on occasions. If the performance from the 2nd set lasted only for about two more service games in the second, the match would have been Julia's.
Well, it doesn't last that long - It does happen that Petra collapses (watch her matches vs. Vika or Pironkova in Wimbledon) but on the difference to Julia from her RG match to Bartoli for example she has that ability to recuperate herself... so finally her mental let downs doesn't have a 'huge impact'.

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And, yes, the take-back surely has to do with it, but she corrects that when she is able to plan the shot much earlier. She has probably grew up with that swing and there's nothing to do about it, but, as she shows in her good days, that doesn't have to be a problem.
Well shortening her FH swing is not the most complicated thing, she could have that done in a month or 2 of intense practice. It's not going to change the mechanic self of the FH... but does she want to IDK.

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Furthermore, she could hit as many UEs as she wants, as long as she wins the match (and this is where this discussion started) Of what use is that she hit only 5 UEs in that set if they came exactly in the right moment for her to lose?
Yes but unfortunately that's just one match, you can't win strings of matches that manner, it's impossible on the very long run - Julia doesn't want to win only one match, she wants to win 4, 5 or 6 eventually 7 respectively for the QF/SF, F, or W.

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So you're saying that Petra's UEs are caused because she hits too hard (juice), but rarely from mistiming, and because of that she can find confidence more easily than Julia, right? That sounds pretty coherent
Not all, most... mistiming sometimes happens any to all pro players but technically she's sound... most of Julia's UEs are caused by bad footwork, wrong body positioning, lack of balance, lack of engagement etc... which inevitably results into slight lack of control of the ball and UEs more so than ever for the type of aggressive game style she plays.

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But why would she then find more confidence against big names? I think we should alsp consider the possibility that she's not very fit yet. Of course, there is a lot of progress there, but maybe it will take a while. Maybe she simply doesn't have the strenght to have the same intensity for a longer time. When she's against big names, she gives all that she has, because that would be a chance to prove she's worthy, and she also gives it all after losing the first set because... well, she's losing
That's kind of normal... girls give their best to the best of their respective game, it's a source of motivation - a moment to prove yourself to the elites of the game but it's also a reveler to show how far/close you are in terms of level to them.

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What is a target? She was trying to hit Serena?
The target is a spot on the court... targeting is getting to a specific spot on the court.

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She probably looks better on clay, but look at this game (or indeed about any other one). This is the kind of situation where she would start missing vs Cibulkova or Zheng.
Well the zone is different and safer... it's much more easier to get CC than to go DTL and Julia isn't the specialist in changing directions, just pay attention to all the DTL FHs she misses, I think we've talked about that already.

On the BH, it should be easier for her to go DTL because she's able to find much more stability on that side contrary to her FH... IMO on the FH she'll miss 8 of 10 DTL (including the easy ones) and 3 or 4 of 10 on the BH side.
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Old Aug 21st, 2011, 08:10 PM   #153
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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Originally Posted by Vikapower View Post
Well, it doesn't last that long - It does happen that Petra collapses (watch her matches vs. Vika or Pironkova in Wimbledon) but on the difference to Julia from her RG match to Bartoli for example she has that ability to recuperate herself... so finally her mental let downs doesn't have a 'huge impact'.
But also watch Petra's matches against Bartoli in the final at Eastbourne and the loss at RG. And Julia came back at RG from 1-5 to 4-5. It was just a little bit too late. And I don't think I saw Petra's matches at IW and Miami, but the scoreline seems pretty similar to those of Julia when she collapses. I would say it can have the same impact, but it happens a lot more to Julia.


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Originally Posted by Vikapower View Post
Not all, most... mistiming sometimes happens any to all pro players but technically she's sound... most of Julia's UEs are caused by bad footwork, wrong body positioning, lack of balance, lack of engagement etc... which inevitably results into slight lack of control of the ball and UEs more so than ever for the type of aggressive game style she plays.
Hmm, I think you can rarely see the problems with the footwork, body positioning and lack of balance anymore. Now she kinda misses more when she's in the perfect position and gets more balls in from difficult positions (we agreed before that it would be better to get more easy balls in).


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Originally Posted by Vikapower View Post
The target is a spot on the court... targeting is getting to a specific spot on the court.
So the missed BH DTL against Jie didn't have a target while the BH passing shot against Serena did?


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Originally Posted by Vikapower View Post
Well the zone is different and safer... it's much more easier to get CC than to go DTL and Julia isn't the specialist in changing directions, just pay attention to all the DTL FHs she misses, I think we've talked about that already.

On the BH, it should be easier for her to go DTL because she's able to find much more stability on that side contrary to her FH... IMO on the FH she'll miss 8 of 10 DTL (including the easy ones) and 3 or 4 of 10 on the BH side.
Yes, we did, but I was digressing a bit from talking about only that specific shot compared to BHs DTL. I was talking about the whole game. In that kind of situation against Makiri she would hit wide, as she actually did. And she would make some DFs, hit some easy FHs into the net, etc. She was pretty much as convincing as she was on clay. I agree about the FH DTL.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2011, 08:08 PM   #154
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

I can't understand way you people do this.
I think everything is hide in constant game. Like a every aggressive player in WTA Julia can't to be on a top form every match. I cant understand this, too. Maybe because hers style 'everything or nothing' or maybe because in WTA haven't absolutely technically completed tennis players since WS play a tennis. Maybe only Venus, Serena and Kim are absolutely technically completed tennis player, now... Everyone are try to hit the boll with maximum power because this is more easily than smart game. But this style not always lead to success. This is another big problem in WTA....
Just if WTA player didn't have this problem and Julia wouldn't have this problem. If Julia was a constant player she would have a good balance, movement, FH DTL, very good BH and many good other thing like a in Stuttgart. She have a play for mazing tennis winner, but like a many other player she haven't constant in her game. And again another mental problem...

Can yo understand me? My English.....
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Old Aug 22nd, 2011, 10:34 PM   #155
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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Originally Posted by Skoo View Post
Hmm, I think you can rarely see the problems with the footwork, body positioning and lack of balance anymore. Now she kinda misses more when she's in the perfect position and gets more balls in from difficult positions (we agreed before that it would be better to get more easy balls in).
Well just in the simple videos against Jie you can see just all what you enumerated. Without extending it too much, in that particular FH the reason she misses principally is her lack of engagement forward and I have the impression she rushes the shot a bit, in this same video you can see she places herself way to early and is far from the ball, very approximative footwork - in the shot before this on here, I know Jie's shot is long but she could have taken a supplementary step to come in closed stance, she doesn't do so, that's the reason she can't take a good cut at the ball - finds herself constrained to embark backwards with her BH which results into a puffy high ball.

Technically in open stance, she should have blocked back to re-engage into ball if she was more reactive - lack of reactivity or foot speed I don't specifically know - but these are genuine shots like these where she should be able to get her body behind the ball effectively for a full swing since they're not even that quick.

You can see the difference between a well executed FH by Julia approximatively of the same sort and this- she's clearly not behaving the same way - here's another one of these FH she misses compare with the first video.

As for her footwork I can only invite to watch the match vs. Safina in Madrid to see how greatly effective she was...

---

The shots she misses when she's in perfect position can be due to a lot of things including mental, perhaps relaxing before she hits the shot - it can also be due to lack of caution, too close to the lines or maybe just too much power, it could be technical like decelerating before impact to be cautious on the shot ; sometimes it can simply be due to the opponent who anticipates the right place, Julia sees it in the corner of her eye and misses etc...

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So the missed BH DTL against Jie didn't have a target while the BH passing shot against Serena did?
For certain players, when a player comes at the net, it's much more easier to focus mentally to get the ball where they want it to into the opponent's court than for example in an open court - I don't specifically know how to explain that any better but there are many articles on the web about the subject if you google for example tennis/target, target/passing shots etc...
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Old Aug 22nd, 2011, 11:28 PM   #156
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

Yes, of course the positioning problems are still there sometimes (who's the player that doesn't have them?). Maybe "rarely" was not the appropriate word. Neither was "more" (I thought that the missed BH DTL against Jie is representative, but it's probably not). The idea was that she had more UEs on clay than here. I don't know about the match against Zheng, but at Wimby and Toronto there were less, so the positioning problems must occur less often now, and when she's "on" they have the low frequency of a top player
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Old Sep 7th, 2011, 10:45 PM   #157
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

There are a lot of observations and thoughts about Julia and her game from many different posters, since she appeared on this forum in 2006.
Everybody has got his own point of view, and therefore the discussion about the outcome of her matches and the reasons therefore is partially controversy.
But there are some things, whereat most of the posters agree.
She has a good serve, and it can very dangerous on every surface when her game is on.
Without any doubt the forehand is her favored and best stroke.
All posters go along with the fact of the inconsistency in her game. She obviously has some lacks to be in control of her game.
Her long-winded motions in the ground-strokes can be very disadvantageous, and she should upgrade her backhand and ROS.
So, let`s be ridiculous now, and imagine you where her coach.
No matter, you are a complete layman or a pro, on what, and how would you work with her ?
Any meanings or ideas ?
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Old Sep 7th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #158
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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So, let`s be ridiculous now, and imagine you where her coach.
No matter, you are a complete layman or a pro, on what, and how would you work with her ?
Any meanings or ideas ?
I would get her proof of the advantages a good relationship can have on performance and I would offer to provide that Other than that, fitness, best nutrition and a slice serve, since I read it is less demanding on the lower back. But I would really have to hire someone else for technical issues
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Old Sep 7th, 2011, 11:24 PM   #159
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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I would get her proof of the advantages a good relationship can have on performance and I would offer to provide that :lol: Other than that, fitness, best nutrition and a slice serve, since I read it is less demanding on the lower back. But I would really have to hire someone else for technical issues
I knew, it was as safe as the bank of England, if you should respond on my question, what your first point here is. And you didn`t disappoint me in your waggish way of humour.
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Old Sep 8th, 2011, 09:04 AM   #160
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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I knew, it was as safe as the bank of England, if you should respond on my question, what your first point here is. And you didn`t disappoint me in your waggish way of humour.
Are you saying you predicted I was going to say that? Anyway, if you like it, I will allow you to teach her how to drive her Porsche. But I'm keeping an eye on you
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Old Sep 8th, 2011, 12:05 PM   #161
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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Are you saying you predicted I was going to say that? Anyway, if you like it, I will allow you to teach her how to drive her Porsche. But I'm keeping an eye on you
Thanks for the invitation !
I`ll obediently follow your advices, as long as I´m not behind the steering wheel.
Afterwards you might no more be able to keep your eye on the action anyway.
So better stay on the back seat.
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Old Sep 21st, 2011, 09:51 PM   #162
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

Julia - who took the crown for Germanys # 1 Doubles player from former Mixed Doubles Grand Slam Winner Anna Lena Grönefeld on 7/05/10 (after advancing to QF in Wimbledon 2010 w/Agnes Szavay) – will pass it to Sabine Lisicki on 9/26/11.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 12:12 AM   #163
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

Quote:
Originally Posted by joy division View Post
There are a lot of observations and thoughts about Julia and her game from many different posters, since she appeared on this forum in 2006.
Everybody has got his own point of view, and therefore the discussion about the outcome of her matches and the reasons therefore is partially controversy.
But there are some things, whereat most of the posters agree.
She has a good serve, and it can very dangerous on every surface when her game is on.
Without any doubt the forehand is her favored and best stroke.
All posters go along with the fact of the inconsistency in her game. She obviously has some lacks to be in control of her game.
Her long-winded motions in the ground-strokes can be very disadvantageous, and she should upgrade her backhand and ROS.
Late answer to a very good post, well sorry... well you know in technique and tennis, it's impossible I think for everyone to have the same interpretation.

There are general and logical concepts that everyone agrees on to produce strokes, use you legs, your bigger muscle groups etc... to produce power for example, move forward, weight transfer etc... and many others but as for how to interpret them in a swing then I think it's free to everyone's imagination.

The same goes for after watching a match, everyone perceived it in a different though, there's the epistemological data in the greek sense of the term επιστήμη épistémę - knowledge, science to put everyone right but sensations even from these are reinterpreted according to everyone's personal knowledges, feelings, sensations etc...

In all this, I would say, all of us a wrong, all of us a right... I would not be bold to say we have the full truth but we've touched a good bit of it...

Quote:
So, let`s be ridiculous now, and imagine you where her coach.
No matter, you are a complete layman or a pro, on what, and how would you work with her ?
Any meanings or ideas ?
Good question, from a far distance if I was Julia's coach and with my magic stick the things I'd work with her would be her footwork definitively (crossovers, sprint etc...) I would most probably specifically work her foot speed - I think it would definitively make her FH even much more of a consistent and even more brilliant shot...

I would also perfection with that new found footwork, the running FH, I would try to make Julia excellent on the dead run for that I would try to ameliorate as much as I can her balance because this really one the things that un-allows her to be efficient from extreme positions...

I would also encourage her game in half volley, she really so good at the taking ball in half volleys and use the pace to even make the shots go faster than how they initially came especially of the BH side.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 07:55 AM   #164
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

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Originally Posted by joy division View Post
So, let`s be ridiculous now, and imagine you where her coach.
No matter, you are a complete layman or a pro, on what, and how would you work with her ?
Any meanings or ideas ?
oh, i've got a lot of ideas how to "work" with julia if i were her "trainer"
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Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 08:01 AM   #165
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Re: Meet Julia Görges vol2

Julia
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