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Old May 9th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #31
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

Sorry for the ramblings, but I do have a strong opinion and lot to say on the subject. I want to add my opinion of what would happen if we imagine that starting now, the NCAA forced each school to use 50% of their scholarships on American kids. I'm not sure if this could even happen, legally, but let's just for the sake of argument assume that it could.

As it stands, the schools that currently get the best American girls are also the ones that typically end up in the Final 4 and win national championships. Since 1982, only eight schools have won the national championship:

Stanford, USC, Florida, Texas, Georgia, Georgia Tech, UCLA, and Duke

Not coincidentally, those schools typically get the best American kids. This year Florida and Stanford are once again much better (IMHO) than the rest of the field. Take a look at the top 20 and you'll see that there are only a few "mercenary" teams like Baylor and Clemson. Most of them are primarily American. Look at the rest of the top 75 and it's the opposite - mostly international-type teams.

So the foreign pros really aren't influencing the cream of the crop that much, but they are keeping things competitive and interesting in the rest of the field. Take away (or reduce) the foreign girls and you'll have the "haves" and the "have nots" and not much in between. You'll have no more Fresno States or SMUs or South Carolinas or Baylors or Clemsons or Nebraskas. All you'll have is the big powers and a bunch of scrubs. International players have done for college tennis what lowering the scholarship numbers has done for college football - created parity. Now that USC and Texas football can't hoard 105 scholarship players, there is talent to go around so that Boise State and TCU can maybe not win the national championship, but at least be competitive. It makes the sport more fun for coaches, players, and especially fans knowing that your hometown team is just a good coach away from being competitive, even if your team is Rutgers or Nevada!

Another thing is that I don't think that on the average the coaching in women's college tennis is very good. I base this on the players seeming to mostly get worse from freshman to senior year. I base it on the lack of girls who go on to pro careers. I base it on athletic administrations mission to give jobs to underqualified candidates just to meet invisible quotas. Part of it is probably also that many great coaches of tennis are probably more fulfilled by developing younger players or working with higher-level players rather than trying to beg a college girl to devote a couple of hours per day to tennis while competing with school, boys, extracurriculars, etc. The salaries, on average, are also not very good.

Nonetheless, because a highly-motivated coach can take a team like Wichita State or Miami-Ohio or Florida International and by recruiting great international players is able to move up to a school like Oklahoma State or Maryland or Michigan where they can THEN recruit great American girls, some very good coaches will take a chance at a mid-major school knowing that it's not necessarily a dead-end job. Trust me if you have to have 4 American girls on scholarship at Mississippi State, you might as well cut tennis. It is hard enough for a school like that to be competitive with Russians. Make them take 3 and 4-stars from Tupelo and Jackson and they'll go 4-21 every year if they schedule some SWAC teams for the 4 wins.

I don't know if you have seen the level of a 3-star American girl, but it is bad. In my country we would call that level recreational, and not even high recreational - just a girl who played tennis on the weekends in the summer. And yet a 3-star American girl can VERY EASILY get a scholarship to play college tennis, probably even at the Division 1 level! So it's not like American girls are going without scholarships. Sure, a 3-star kid isn't going to get a full ride to Vanderbilt, but they can probably get a full ride to Belmont. And the American girls getting scholarships to Division 2 schools and junior colleges play at an almost comedically bad level.

All that you do if you take away the internationals is move these girls up a level. What decent American player is going to go to Mississippi State? You're going to have some kid that just learned how to keep score in a tiebreaker facing off against whatever ace Florida has at 5 and getting run off the court in 14 minutes. That's not fun for either side and it's definitely not good for college tennis.

You might think that this would all benefit Irvine, but I don't think that's true. I think that with this type of rule all of the sudden a 4-star California kid becomes a real prize and so now you have South Carolina and Boston College and Penn State and a bunch of other rich, good academic schools coming to CA and stealing UCI's kids and now all of the sudden UCI is playing with 2-stars. You think all of those talented California kids are still saying "yes" to UCI when 40 big-time schools are beating down their doors? Or when now Pepperdine and USD and Washington and Oregon now need to fill their American quotas? UCI is a good school and a very nice place but a huge reason they get these good players is because the kids want to stay close to home and UCI is the best option they have. Take that advantage away and UCI becomes San Jose State.

It sounds nice and patriotic, kind of like buying American cars, but all that buying American cars thoughtlessly, PURELY for the sake of "buying American" does is allow American car makers to build crappy products and get away with it. Buy a Honda and GM actually has to produce a competitive product.

Forcing bad American kids on college coaches is not the answer. Improving American junior tennis development is a good start.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 11:24 PM   #32
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

10sE - Well thought-out and articulated. One of the better summaries I've read on this emotional topic!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 03:53 AM   #33
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

10sE with a 'blue chip' post and analysis

SPOT ON about how a hypothetical 'cap' on internationals would not help the mid major or lessor BCS programs but hurt them. UCI's best two or three US kids would instead be filling the new vacancies at Cal, UW, ASU and Arizona. 3 & 2 stars would absolutely be filling those spots.

Here is reality: There are NO three star or less kids getting scholarships to any decent women's tennis program that has EVER been in the top 150. EVER.

So in any given year the US is only producing approx. 35 high quality; and only maybe 150 female players of any real ability to fill a minimum of 500 open scholarships nationally per year. 150 for 500. And that 150 is being really, really, really generous.


Two thoughts on this possibility: What if the NCAA were to reduce women's tennis from 8 to 4.5 scholarships like the men?

1) It also acts like a salary cap. How many snotty American kids will be left out of scholarships and now Mommy/Daddy have to pay major chunks of the college cost. The really good Top 35 would still get full rides but after that these kids would either have to PAY THEIR OWN WAY or, god forbid, go to a 'State school' or lower level program where they could still get a full ride.

2) So it conceivably, after the often mentioned big names of Stanford, Duke, UCLA, etc..., would probably impact the # 20-75 programs the most as their mid level full rides would peel off to lesser schools to get full scholarships.

Why would anyone want to water down a sport they follow/watch/value? So it has to be some other agenda/excuse/jealousy. But, no doubt, some will continue to seek excuses by blaming better players from other countries for their short comings. (I know one who does for sure because he can't regularly beat the 'state' school even though he feels he has a superior university and actually has had a larger budget most seasons according to Dept of Ed figures the last five seasons).


PS... there are a lot of foreign kids in ice hockey too. It began about 15 years ago and the level of NCAA hockey is now so good that many Canadian's will not choose college hockey over major junior hockey and go on to play in the NHL also. That is a great thing and d1 schools have actually been ADDING the sport.

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Old May 10th, 2011, 02:46 PM   #34
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10sE View Post
Sorry for the ramblings, but I do have a strong opinion and lot to say on the subject. I want to add my opinion of what would happen if we imagine that starting now, the NCAA forced each school to use 50% of their scholarships on American kids. I'm not sure if this could even happen, legally, but let's just for the sake of argument assume that it could.

As it stands, the schools that currently get the best American girls are also the ones that typically end up in the Final 4 and win national championships. Since 1982, only eight schools have won the national championship:

Stanford, USC, Florida, Texas, Georgia, Georgia Tech, UCLA, and Duke

Not coincidentally, those schools typically get the best American kids. This year Florida and Stanford are once again much better (IMHO) than the rest of the field. Take a look at the top 20 and you'll see that there are only a few "mercenary" teams like Baylor and Clemson. Most of them are primarily American. Look at the rest of the top 75 and it's the opposite - mostly international-type teams.

So the foreign pros really aren't influencing the cream of the crop that much, but they are keeping things competitive and interesting in the rest of the field. Take away (or reduce) the foreign girls and you'll have the "haves" and the "have nots" and not much in between. You'll have no more Fresno States or SMUs or South Carolinas or Baylors or Clemsons or Nebraskas. All you'll have is the big powers and a bunch of scrubs. International players have done for college tennis what lowering the scholarship numbers has done for college football - created parity. Now that USC and Texas football can't hoard 105 scholarship players, there is talent to go around so that Boise State and TCU can maybe not win the national championship, but at least be competitive. It makes the sport more fun for coaches, players, and especially fans knowing that your hometown team is just a good coach away from being competitive, even if your team is Rutgers or Nevada!

Another thing is that I don't think that on the average the coaching in women's college tennis is very good. I base this on the players seeming to mostly get worse from freshman to senior year. I base it on the lack of girls who go on to pro careers. I base it on athletic administrations mission to give jobs to underqualified candidates just to meet invisible quotas. Part of it is probably also that many great coaches of tennis are probably more fulfilled by developing younger players or working with higher-level players rather than trying to beg a college girl to devote a couple of hours per day to tennis while competing with school, boys, extracurriculars, etc. The salaries, on average, are also not very good.

Nonetheless, because a highly-motivated coach can take a team like Wichita State or Miami-Ohio or Florida International and by recruiting great international players is able to move up to a school like Oklahoma State or Maryland or Michigan where they can THEN recruit great American girls, some very good coaches will take a chance at a mid-major school knowing that it's not necessarily a dead-end job. Trust me if you have to have 4 American girls on scholarship at Mississippi State, you might as well cut tennis. It is hard enough for a school like that to be competitive with Russians. Make them take 3 and 4-stars from Tupelo and Jackson and they'll go 4-21 every year if they schedule some SWAC teams for the 4 wins.

I don't know if you have seen the level of a 3-star American girl, but it is bad. In my country we would call that level recreational, and not even high recreational - just a girl who played tennis on the weekends in the summer. And yet a 3-star American girl can VERY EASILY get a scholarship to play college tennis, probably even at the Division 1 level! So it's not like American girls are going without scholarships. Sure, a 3-star kid isn't going to get a full ride to Vanderbilt, but they can probably get a full ride to Belmont. And the American girls getting scholarships to Division 2 schools and junior colleges play at an almost comedically bad level.

All that you do if you take away the internationals is move these girls up a level. What decent American player is going to go to Mississippi State? You're going to have some kid that just learned how to keep score in a tiebreaker facing off against whatever ace Florida has at 5 and getting run off the court in 14 minutes. That's not fun for either side and it's definitely not good for college tennis.

You might think that this would all benefit Irvine, but I don't think that's true. I think that with this type of rule all of the sudden a 4-star California kid becomes a real prize and so now you have South Carolina and Boston College and Penn State and a bunch of other rich, good academic schools coming to CA and stealing UCI's kids and now all of the sudden UCI is playing with 2-stars. You think all of those talented California kids are still saying "yes" to UCI when 40 big-time schools are beating down their doors? Or when now Pepperdine and USD and Washington and Oregon now need to fill their American quotas? UCI is a good school and a very nice place but a huge reason they get these good players is because the kids want to stay close to home and UCI is the best option they have. Take that advantage away and UCI becomes San Jose State.

It sounds nice and patriotic, kind of like buying American cars, but all that buying American cars thoughtlessly, PURELY for the sake of "buying American" does is allow American car makers to build crappy products and get away with it. Buy a Honda and GM actually has to produce a competitive product.

Forcing bad American kids on college coaches is not the answer. Improving American junior tennis development is a good start.
10sE..You made some very good points. I think I was the person that originally posted that we should have a cap on the number of scholarships given to foreign players but now I see it would definitely not work and would water down the quality of play in women's tennis as well as men's. With over 2500 women playing D-1 college tennis on more then 300 teams, you would have more scholarships then legitimate American tennis players to give a scholarship!
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Old May 11th, 2011, 05:22 PM   #35
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

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Originally Posted by 10sE View Post
. I have always found funny was the false assumption that a European girl had more options. There has never been anything except for social norms stopping an American girl from going to play a year and a half on the tour just like the Czechs. It is not typical for an American girl to do that, and it is probably more acceptable for a Eastern Euro to forego college for two years, but logistically an American kid could just as easily have done it.
I'd respond that social norms are a strong constraint on our behavior. We want to think that we are independent, but we are truly social beings. I think you minimize social constraints as if they were nothing.

But also the logistics are different. Europe has an abundance of $10k and $25k events and the United States does not. The cost and ease of participating is different.

I'm even now wondering out loud if because we have a developed college tennis system that it functions as our (minor league) $10k and $25k events, so there is less pressure for USTA and ITF to have $10k and $25k events here?
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Old May 11th, 2011, 06:40 PM   #36
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

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I'm even now wondering out loud if because we have a developed college tennis system that it functions as our (minor league) $10k and $25k events, so there is less pressure for USTA and ITF to have $10k and $25k events here?
That's a really interesting idea and one that I had not really thought about before. Also it seems like the economy has killed more of these tournaments in the US and Mexico than it has in Europe, where they are still flourishing. Let's say you're right, and so then this (rather than awarding scholarships to foreign players) is the huge flaw in the US development system. Let's face it, if you go play college tennis at age 18, you are not going to be a top-100 pro. History shows us that.

The argument is, "should we or should we not be awarding scholarships to international players," and inevitably it's a matter of opinion. My main point is that the "we're hurting US tennis development by not giving American girls a shot" argument is not valid. No girls, American or otherwise, are being developed into top pros in college.

The counter argument is that if American girls had the dangling carrot of college tennis as a backup, then they would somehow be more motivated to pursue tennis seriously at a young age. Most girls in Europe and South America have no idea about college tennis, yet hundreds still pursue tennis (sadly?) way past the point at which it is obvious that pro tennis will not be a viable option. More $10 and $25ks help keep them going, but bouncing around the continent making 250 bucks a tournament isn't covering the costs. These girls and their families are really rolling the dice.

Yes you're right - I have definitely discounted social norms as the huge factor that they are. I would agree that the social pressure for American kids to "be real" about their unrealistic chances at pro tennis career is what keeps them from chasing the dream into their 20s like their international counterparts do. I don't think that's what is keeping the US from developing great pros though - I just think it's what is keeping America from developing great college players (who are the 300-600 WTA burnouts, or those that would have likely burned out at that level if they had kept going). But we can't change that - we can't change social norms. We can't make it socially acceptable for an American girl to waste her parents money traveling around the world playing $10ks (wasting their money at college is a different story!), and we can't make it "weird" for European girls to not go to college to piddle around on the tour. That's why, in the near future at least, there are always going to be more good international players in college tennis than Americans.

Last thing: There is more of an interest abroad for tennis to be successful. The USTA and the ITF are the governing bodies, but it is tennis clubs, businesses, and individuals that put together the money required to host a tournament. I used to know how much money it took to host a $10k or an ITF G3. I can't quote the exact figure, but it is substantial and the return on that investment is very minimal. It takes sponsors, it takes community interest, and it takes deep pockets. There could be a $10k in the US every other weekend if there were enough people/groups interested in sponsoring them. Sadly, there are not, and the USTA can only do so much.

What I would like:

1. For American pro tennis to make a comeback. I don't think changing the rules on internationals in college has much to do with that. I think it's about junior development. If America develops great players, more of them will have success on the tour, and more of them will be offered scholarships at high levels in college.

2. For college tennis to be the highest level it possibly can be played at. I think that the doors should be closed to true pros, but I do think that they should be open to the best players from around the world.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 08:53 PM   #37
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

nteresting response. I did not mean to say that the US has a huge flaw in its development system. I believe the high numbers of internationals in college is a sign that the world is catching up, rather than that we are broken. Today's international level of play is so high, that it is unrealistic to ask that college tennis can develop more than the accidental top professional player. A more realistic goal is that the players improve and develop while in college.
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Old May 14th, 2011, 04:14 AM   #38
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

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nteresting response. I did not mean to say that the US has a huge flaw in its development system. I believe the high numbers of internationals in college is a sign that the world is catching up, rather than that we are broken. Today's international level of play is so high, that it is unrealistic to ask that college tennis can develop more than the accidental top professional player. A more realistic goal is that the players improve and develop while in college.

About 3 of 3000 might women's college players graduating per year may ever go on to even make enough money to pay expenses. Improving in college is too late.

The problem with US tennis development compared to Europe is the structure. In Europe they train and travel largely in a club environment... like US swim clubs.... so the parents share travel, cost and more importantly even though it is an individual sport the kids are travelling with friends. US junior tennis can be very lonely as you get started while getting beat and yet experience the proverbial tennis/little league parent syndrome.

The best thing for USTA would be to somehow create tennis leagues where training/travel/play expanded on the 'team' concept so that parents could share that travel/training cost and kids could have a more social experience. It's the real difference from say the soccer, little league, softball kinds of programs that attract kids. The social effect.

Having said this, it would be one heck of an endeavor to change the US tennis structure and create as many tennis youth club teams as other sports already have so that it could be competitive and effective.

MHO
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Old May 14th, 2011, 05:15 AM   #39
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

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About 3 of 3000 might women's college players graduating per year may ever go on to even make enough money to pay expenses. Improving in college is too late.

The problem with US tennis development compared to Europe is the structure. In Europe they train and travel largely in a club environment... like US swim clubs.... so the parents share travel, cost and more importantly even though it is an individual sport the kids are travelling with friends. US junior tennis can be very lonely as you get started while getting beat and yet experience the proverbial tennis/little league parent syndrome.

The best thing for USTA would be to somehow create tennis leagues where training/travel/play expanded on the 'team' concept so that parents could share that travel/training cost and kids could have a more social experience. It's the real difference from say the soccer, little league, softball kinds of programs that attract kids. The social effect.

Having said this, it would be one heck of an endeavor to change the US tennis structure and create as many tennis youth club teams as other sports already have so that it could be competitive and effective.

MHO
Form, We all like College tennis here.

Do you have the numbers the other way around, e.g. Out of how many women who first try professional tennis without playing US College tennis go on to cover their expenses each year?
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Old May 14th, 2011, 04:00 PM   #40
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

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Form, We all like College tennis here.

Do you have the numbers the other way around, e.g. Out of how many women who first try professional tennis without playing US College tennis go on to cover their expenses each year?
Well, one could just count the number of US girls (pick an age) that are on tour at $50,000 or more level ... then figure out there ages. If there are 25 that are 'trying' to make it at that level with some success... then divide by their various ages... calculated estimate would be maybe 3 per American's HS graduating class that are successful enough on tour to actually cover expenses. (Honestly that is probably too high a number; there don't seem to be many US girls making it very far presently).

Let me add that in men's basketball, just 100 of 4500 per year will get a sniff at pro hoops. And that's a sniff...most will get cut or maybe last just a season or two. So I'm not saying college tennis is any different.

I once heard the LB coach answer a question at a booster gathering about why she went into coaching. She said that she knew she wanted to coach while she was still a player at UCLA. She felt she realistically would struggle to break even playing pro so she went straight into coaching. She said a teammate/good friend did go on to the tour and actually did improve throughout her college career and pro career. That teammate got to top 64 in the world and played several majors.

But coach added that when her teammate retired to return to grad school six or seven years later, she saw her career earnings and realized that having gone straight into coaching she had made more salary than her friend had on the pro tour. It's a great experience on tour but it is so tough to cover your expenses much less 'make it'.
That story has always stuck with me.

In many cases, the kids on scholarship are actually being paid more by that scholarship than they could make on the tour in a career. Which is great! That is why so many kids from around the world want to play college tennis and why the level has become so good.

I was not ragging college tennis, I was just noting that realistically this is the end. That NCAA commercial is so true: 'For 99% of college athletes, they will go pro in something other than sport'

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Old May 14th, 2011, 04:49 PM   #41
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

Yeah, I like that you point out, 'For 99% of college athletes, they will go pro in something other than sport'
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Old Jun 5th, 2011, 07:47 AM   #42
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Re: 100% foreigners club

Clemson is added to the 100% foreigner's club.

All of their scholarships went to international players in 2006-07, 05-06, 04-05, 03-04, 02-03 and 01-02.

Clemson has the record so far with 6 straight years without an American scholarship player.

2006-07
1. Ani Mijacika - Croatia
2. Carol Salge - Brazil
3. Estefania Balda - Ecuador
4. Federica van Adrichem - Netherlands
5. Ina Hadziselimovic - Bosnia
6. Maria Brito - Mexico
7. Alexandra Luc - France
8. Selma Babic - Bosnia

2005-06
1. Daniela Alvarez - Bolivia
2. Carol Salge - Brazil
3. Federica van Adrichem - Netherlands
4. Maria Brito - Mexico
5. Alexandra Luc - France
6. Marie Scriba - France
7. (walk-on)
8. (walk-on)

2004-05
1. Julie Coin - France
2. Romy Farah - Colombia
3. Maria Brito - Mexico
4. Daniela Alvarez - Bolivia
5. Alix Lacelarle - France
6. Carol Salge - Brazil
7. Ioana Paun - Romania
8. Richele LeSaldo - Barbados

2003-04
1. Julie Coin - France
2. Daniela Alvarez - Bolivia
3. Maria Brito - Mexico
4. Karen Rombouts - Netherlands
5. Alix Lacelarie - France
6. Richele LeSaldo - Barbados
7. Ioana Paun - Romania
8. Silvia Gutierrez - Spain

2002-03
1. Julie Coin - France
2. Alix Lacelarie - France
3. Daniela Alvarez - Bolivia
4. Ana Stiglic - South Africa
5. Laurence Jayet - France
6. Ioana Paun - Romania
7. Anna Dolinska - Poland
8. Richele LeSaldo - Barbados

2001-02
1. Alix Lacelarie - France
2. Anna Savitskaya - Russia
3. Ana Stiglic - South Africa
4. Laurence Jayet - France
5. Ioana Paun - Romania
6. Milena Stanoycheva - Bulgaria
7. Anna Dolinska - Poland
8. Richele LeSaldo - Barbados
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Old Jun 5th, 2011, 09:56 PM   #43
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

Ask the Texas A&M coach about how important it is to WIN... regardless of roster composition.

I believe others on this chat effectively were pointing out that fielding the best possible team is important.. not making some American political statement.

Anyway, while you are selectively trying to make your ugly American point, I'll throw you a bone of two current squads.

You can add this year's # 32 South Carolina and unranked Houston to your list of coach's doing the best they can to compete by fielding the best players they can attract without some hang up.
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Old Jun 19th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #44
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Junior colleges impose foreigner roster limits

Junior colleges approve limiting participation of foreign athletes

By Steve Wieberg, USA TODAY

Updated 5/12/2011

Concerned by the growing number and impact of foreign athletes — some with sketchy amateur credentials, many older and more mature than the freshmen and sophomores they compete with and against — the nation's 500-plus junior and community colleges have charted an admittedly tricky path.

Starting next year, they'll impose strict roster limits.

By a 30-21 margin, the National Junior College Athletic Association's board of directors voted in late March to hold the number of non-U.S. players at no more than one-fourth of a team's allotment of scholarship players. In basketball and volleyball, for instance, that would be three. In soccer, four. In track, five.

Barring a revote, the measure will go into effect in August 2012. The NJCAA already limits the percentage of foreign athletes on scholarship, but an increasing number were paying their own way through school and essentially competing as walk-ons.

This will establish a firm overall cap.
...

Tyler (Texas) men's soccer program underscores the issue, in part. Tyler has gone 41-0-1 in winning the past two NJCAA Division I championships. Last fall's 25-man roster featured 18 foreign players, including national player of the year Dom Dwyer and six others from England. Fourteen were on their own dime, not receiving scholarships.

But none were older than 23, coach Steve Clements says.

One of the issues that drove the NJCAA vote two months ago was a growing population of foreign athletes in their mid-to-late 20s, many with extensive club and national team experience. The junior college association has the same concern as the NCAA that at least some of them crossed professional lines, but it doesn't have the same manpower or money to find out how and where.

"We're looking for some way we can control this with simple rules," Tubb says.

The NJCAA has weighed but thus far opted against an age limit. The NCAA's approach: It gives athletes a year from high school graduation to enroll in college and, after that, docks a season of eligibility for each year they've participated on a club team or in other "organized competition."

Non-U.S. athletes tripled their numbers in the NCAA's Division I — from a little less than 3,600 to nearly 11,000 — in the 10 years ending in 2009-10. They went from 3.6% of the total to 6.3%. The NJCAA doesn't have that kind of count, says NJCAA executive director Mary Ellen Leicht.

But she says numbers began spiking in tennis and women's volleyball "and we see it now in wrestling, in soccer, basketball, baseball. It really has kind of crept across the gamut of sports we offer."

Leicht acknowledges the value of international students on college campuses. "But we're different from the NCAA," she says," because in the names of most of our colleges, we're talking 'community.' And for the most part, I would tell you they'd like the opportunity to provide our own student-athletes — in their community — an opportunity. What was happening, when older, more experienced athletes were being brought in, was that many felt we had gone beyond what our purpose was."

She notes the controversy over the new measure, and both she and Joe Tubb NJCAA president hold open the possibility of revisiting it. Tubb says schools could revisit some kind of age limit.
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Old Jun 20th, 2011, 11:12 PM   #45
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Re: Teams with 100% foreign players

Mr. Agenda, how come you haven't posted up your BLAST about Houston yet?

Here's another with an asterisk:

2007-08 Pacific
2008-09 Pacific

they did have a 2 star walk on who played one career dual match (lost 1, 1 to EWU)... but all 8 scholies were international both years.

Or do these other examples dilute from your nearly single school agenda?


Geesh... WHO CARES.... every coach should do their jobs and put out the best team possible. And every person/athlete should 'earn' their money.

It's not yet a complete welfare state.
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