Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5 - Page 336 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Closed Thread

Old May 14th, 2011, 05:05 PM   #5026
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,674
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

This was about the best I've seen Masha play since her return. I wish Caro could have found a way to win with Masha playing this well. Masha might then have really wondered what she has to do if she'd loast playing as well as this. But unfortunately Masha was just too good and the more I watched - the more it looked like itb was going to take a miracle for Caro to pull this one out the bag.

You could see in this match why Caro looks vulnerable on clay:
  1. The clay causes many of her shots to end up sitting up for her opponents when they wouldn't on hard court.
    .
  2. She loses a lot of the advantage she has with her movement which is an important part of her game. She can't turn on clay like she can on hard courts.
Before the match started even - Sam rated Masha as the better player on clay.

To be honest - I think making just the SF at RG would be a good result right now. I don't see her as a favourite tio win it despite her seeding and the betting odds.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old May 14th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #5027
country flag Dominika23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,574
Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold Dominika23 is a splendid one to behold
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

I know she could have won against maria today but I would say maria was on fire. But I not worry about Caro she have a history of playing bad on clay but picking her game up when it matter meaning the FO last year she lost to Zvonareva @ CHARLESTON, Safarova @ STUTTGART, Martinez Sanchez @ ROME and Zheng @ WARSAW. so her record on clay not so good hopefully she could win brussels open. I dont see no one there that could beat or take the title beside her or Zvonareva. so I not that worry, just pick up next event caro
Dominika23 is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 14th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #5028
country flag Burisleif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,165
Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I have to slightly disagree with you. The serve should be a weapon/advantage. Caroline may not have Serena's serve but she can still use it as a weapon if she employs better placement. We witnessed a similar performance in the third set vs. Na Li in Australia so of course there is going to be disappointment. Caroline must know that it can be a vulnerability and it needs to be addressed. It's not all bad news as Caroline can, and I suspect that she will, improve her serve but until that happens her opponents will look to take advantage of it whenever an opportunity presents itself.
Caro and her opponents will of course look to take advantage of vulnerabilities. and players look to reduce their vulnerabilities. Earlier you said Caroline
Quote:
must have received the message that she needs to do more if she is going to beat players like Maria when they are "on."


She already did, and can. In the heat of battle when your wits are failing your instincts take over. We saw that today. Since the Racquet switch we have seen Caro's instinctive back hand regress to become less reliable, and seen her instinctive 'safe' plays shorten again... that's more of a worry to me than her serve, and when she starts to play too many instinctive shots, it's also an indication that she isn't taking the mental lead in games, and isn't in peak match form.

Caro's biggest weapon has always been her brain... she is a natural match player, and I'm looking forward to her getting back to the point that even when she is under pressure her shots are still there for her, giving her the time to stay in the match mentally. She shouldn't be loosing to players like Maria, Julia, Li, co. It may take time, but I'm relishing the time when she is totally comfortable with her stick again, and would love it if she was forced to refresh and train rather than go through the motions in Brussels.
Burisleif is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 14th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #5029
country flag The Reff
Senior Member
 
The Reff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,459
The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burisleif View Post
Her thing today was too many soft short balls and letting Maria stand her ground rather than run around. Maria her self has won on clay with a sub par serve.

Caro wins by constructing play, not by puff balling to the opponents advantage. The serve is imho secondary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burisleif View Post
Actually no. Not if the breaks were due to letting your guard down in your service games, and the points being lost due to soft play and UE's rather than the opponent deconstructing your serve. The serve is just one stroke in the rally, if you're not going to capitalise on the advantage of opening play it does not directly correlate that the loss of serve was due to an ineffectual service stroke... Had you watched the match you would be in a position to make that call, and when/if you do get around to watching it then I'd be interested in your opinion on the matter.

Don't 'whatever' me please.
BUT her 1st service rate dropped dratically in the 2nd didn't it? (? because i haven't seen the stats yet)
and her 2nd got punished a lot. You can't call it "just one ball in the rally" if it doesn't go in?

Liked a different perspective though

Not being a tennis-player myself - I sometimes find it hard to judge whether one players bad play is due to better play from the opponent - or simply bad play. That being said: i felt that Caro did "stuff" today rather jan just fall back ind the safe place.
Maybe this is due to my lacking in practical tennis skills, dunno?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeisukeHonda View Post
Progress?

It was not as bad as Madrid... that's pretty much the only progress I saw.
... but that is progress? - no? - slow progress on clay i better than none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeisukeHonda View Post
I don't know if "better than against Jankovic" is really something to be happy about.
With this i agree wholeheartedly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
Which is a better surface for Caro: grass or red clay?
... and we're all thinking that! I just worry most about this becoming a head thing that spills into HC
The Reff is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 14th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #5030
country flag The Reff
Senior Member
 
The Reff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,459
The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all The Reff is a name known to all
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
I'd call getting broken in 63% (7/11) of your service horrible serving but maybe that's just me. Whatever.
Caroline, at least, agrees with you in todays article in EB (Headline):

Caroline: My serve failed me.
Caroline felt she could have won the match, had she held usual standard in her own service games.

Judging from the article she's not totally crushed by the loss and feels she's improving.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/anden_s...cle1554879.ece
The Reff is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 14th, 2011, 08:04 PM   #5031
country flag Burisleif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,165
Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reff View Post
BUT her 1st service rate dropped dratically in the 2nd didn't it? (? because i haven't seen the stats yet)
and her 2nd got punished a lot. You can't call it "just one ball in the rally" if it doesn't go in?

Liked a different perspective though
Yes it dropped, that's not in dispute, more reason to not let your ground game drop on your serve as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reff View Post
Not being a tennis-player myself - I sometimes find it hard to judge whether one players bad play is due to better play from the opponent - or simply bad play. That being said: i felt that Caro did "stuff" today rather jan just fall back ind the safe place.
Maybe this is due to my lacking in practical tennis skills, dunno?
It swings back and fourth... one or either player controlling the play, and players using neutralising shots to get the play back to square one in the rally. Yes there were some very good positives from Caro today, but apart from executing a drop shot brilliantly, nothing that we have not seen before. When/if you re watch the match, make a note of who is placing the ball to put the other player off their stride, making the other player have to make shots on the run etc. Then notice when a player is hitting short high bouncing balls to the opponents standing position, giving them all the time in the world to push you around. You will soon start to see when a player is being out played, or is playing poor choice shots. Also note when Caro hits shots that bring a rally back to neutral, and if she does anything with the new opportunity.

Caro playing well would be making it as hard as possible for Maria to do her thing (cutting her options and angles and not presenting her the ball at optimum hitting pace and height without Maria even having to move her feet), and constructing the play to move Maria out of reach of Caro's shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reff View Post
Caroline, at least, agrees with you in todays article in EB (Headline):

Caroline: My serve failed me.
Caroline felt she could have won the match, had she held usual standard in her own service games.

Judging from the article she's not totally crushed by the loss and feels she's improving.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/anden_s...cle1554879.ece
If Caroline thinks it was just down to her serve she is being less than honest.

1) When was the last time Caro won a service game with all aces and or unreturned serves?

She must have at least once in her career but I can't remember it.

2) How many points did Maria win on Caros serve with return winners?

Not many.

3) How many of the lost service games had extended rallies?

IIRC most of them.

Her ground game was a lot more passive in her service games in general... She seemed focused when trying to break, and let her level slip in her service games. Same thing happened against JJ. I'd call that a lack of focus after key games. It was an intense match... Not one you could afford to relax in, and not against a capable player that can hurt your mistakes.

Re PT's quote to me 'whatever'... please get the full context, which was suggesting that the serve stroke was entirely to blame for being broken, which is just not the case, and not really a statement you can make if you have not watched the match but instead followed it on the scoreboard (it doesn't even show if a rally occurred or not). The service stroke is just one part of a point.

What do I know... I'm no expert just a 30 plus year fan, so i will yield to the experts to clarify the point.
Burisleif is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 15th, 2011, 03:06 AM   #5032
country flag Burisleif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,165
Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute Burisleif has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeisukeHonda View Post
Not really. I didn't enjoy that match at all. I pretty much knew it was over when she started to suck on her serve at 4-4 in the first set.
Awful match. And she has been playing like crap for about a month now.
Pretty much your most negative (passive positive) reaction in a while... I take your posts with maximum optimism intended...

I'm glad you see the possibilities for RG
Burisleif is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 15th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #5033
country flag DownInAHole
Senior Member
 
DownInAHole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,180
DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burisleif View Post
Yes it dropped, that's not in dispute, more reason to not let your ground game drop on your serve as well?



It swings back and fourth... one or either player controlling the play, and players using neutralising shots to get the play back to square one in the rally. Yes there were some very good positives from Caro today, but apart from executing a drop shot brilliantly, nothing that we have not seen before. When/if you re watch the match, make a note of who is placing the ball to put the other player off their stride, making the other player have to make shots on the run etc. Then notice when a player is hitting short high bouncing balls to the opponents standing position, giving them all the time in the world to push you around. You will soon start to see when a player is being out played, or is playing poor choice shots. Also note when Caro hits shots that bring a rally back to neutral, and if she does anything with the new opportunity.

Caro playing well would be making it as hard as possible for Maria to do her thing (cutting her options and angles and not presenting her the ball at optimum hitting pace and height without Maria even having to move her feet), and constructing the play to move Maria out of reach of Caro's shots.



If Caroline thinks it was just down to her serve she is being less than honest.

1) When was the last time Caro won a service game with all aces and or unreturned serves?

She must have at least once in her career but I can't remember it.

2) How many points did Maria win on Caros serve with return winners?

Not many.

3) How many of the lost service games had extended rallies?

IIRC most of them.

Her ground game was a lot more passive in her service games in general... She seemed focused when trying to break, and let her level slip in her service games. Same thing happened against JJ. I'd call that a lack of focus after key games. It was an intense match... Not one you could afford to relax in, and not against a capable player that can hurt your mistakes.

Re PT's quote to me 'whatever'... please get the full context, which was suggesting that the serve stroke was entirely to blame for being broken, which is just not the case, and not really a statement you can make if you have not watched the match but instead followed it on the scoreboard (it doesn't even show if a rally occurred or not). The service stroke is just one part of a point.

What do I know... I'm no expert just a 30 plus year fan, so i will yield to the experts to clarify the point.
I think that one of the valid criticisms of Caroline's interactions with the press is that she is often less than candid. That's not to say that she is a liar but I do not think she is as honest and open as she could be when assessing what went wrong after a loss. That is a characteristic that is hardly limited to Caroline, many athletes can be a bit vague, but for me I would enjoy it more if she was able to be a bit more honest and detailed when discussing her losses. Very often we get the same basic answer "______ played a great match and she was just too good today."
__________________
Don't get on the scale if U ain't got the weight
It's more hard to love than it is to hate


Rock 'n' Roll Is Alive! (And It Lives In Minneapolis)
DownInAHole is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 16th, 2011, 08:45 PM   #5034
country flag stangtennis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,444
stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Varvara Lepchenko (USA) d. (WC) An-Sophie Mestach (BEL) 63 76(3)


Varunchik1 Varvara Lepchenko
Just beat number one junior in the world today.Was not easy.Next round number one in the world in WTA.Excited to play that one!!!
2 hours ago
stangtennis is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 16th, 2011, 10:01 PM   #5035
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,674
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I think that one of the valid criticisms of Caroline's interactions with the press is that she is often less than candid. That's not to say that she is a liar but I do not think she is as honest and open as she could be when assessing what went wrong after a loss. That is a characteristic that is hardly limited to Caroline, many athletes can be a bit vague, but for me I would enjoy it more if she was able to be a bit more honest and detailed when discussing her losses. Very often we get the same basic answer "______ played a great match and she was just too good today."
I know what you are saying about how open she is - but I don't think it's a valid criticism. I certainly wouldn't use the term that she's not honest. You mention yourself that it's not limitted to Caro. I go further. After a loss - I don't think there's a single player on the tour that elaborates on the reason for a defeat in any detail at all.

When I think of a player like JJ who certainly used to be really funny and good at interviews - one reason I liked her. But she could come out with some crap as to why she lost. I still found her funny. But at the end - you didn't hear specifically what you want to hear as to the in-depth reasons. And I've never heard Serena and Venus come up with the sort of detail and insight I think you are wanting. They are quite good at interviews but - they've come up a few times with things that are just excuses rather than anything perceptive. Best is to wait and see if Piotr has anything to say.

Also - after a loss - a player is usually trying to think positively in interviews rather than dwell too much on what went wrong which they need to talk through with their coach. Caro said the obvious thing - her serve. If she had any more to say what went wrong and what as result they were specifically doing about it - that would be a bonus for me. I just wouldn't expect it from any player.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 17th, 2011, 06:44 PM   #5036
country flag stangtennis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,444
stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute stangtennis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

http://www.wta-brusselsopen.com/schedule-day-5.html

Schedule of the day
Wednesday, May 18

Central

11:00 a.m. [Q] Galina VOSKOBOEVA vs [2] Vera ZVONAREVA

2:00 p.m. [Q] Alison VAN UYTVANCK vs [6] Yanina WICKMAYER

followed by [3] Francesca SCHIAVONE vs [LL] Irina FALCONI

followed by [1] Caroline WOZNIACKI vs Varvara LEPCHENKO
stangtennis is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 17th, 2011, 08:01 PM   #5037
country flag C. W. Fields
Senior Member
 
C. W. Fields's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,453
C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute C. W. Fields has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

This thread has passed 5000 posts. With the start of a new tournament I've started a LST6. http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=19565131

I'll request a mod closes this thread.
__________________
Paul Annacone on Wozniacki: "Her biggest skill is to make you over play."
C. W. Fields is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 17th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #5038
country flag DownInAHole
Senior Member
 
DownInAHole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,180
DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute DownInAHole has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Goodbye, Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5. We'll miss you.
__________________
Don't get on the scale if U ain't got the weight
It's more hard to love than it is to hate


Rock 'n' Roll Is Alive! (And It Lives In Minneapolis)
DownInAHole is offline View My Blog!  
Old May 17th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #5039
country flag Frode
HEADBANGER
 
Frode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Same Same
Posts: 52,106
Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute Frode has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Caroline's Live Scoring Thread 5

Volume 6
__________________
ALWAYS LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE
Frode is offline View My Blog!  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios