Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition - Page 2 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Feb 22nd, 2011, 04:09 AM   #16
country flag peanuts
Senior Member
 
peanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,931
peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

^Thanks!

Time to post some match reviews I've been postponing to write about...

Dubai QF: Flavia def Kleybanova 6-2, 6-0

As the scoreline suggests, this is pretty much a one-sided affair. Alisa is another player who is a good match up for Flavia as the 4-0 H2H suggests. Being a lumbering big girl, most players' strategy against Alisa is to pull her wide on rallies. Amazingly enough, she's adept at handling this. She moves quite well when she's pulled wide and manages to hit sick cross court angles from awkward positions on the baseline time and time again. Flavia is one of the few players that I've seen who refuses to get drag into this needless cross court rallies against her. Despite the pace of shot, she manages to redirect the ball deep in the middle of the court giving Alisa a smaller space to go for the angles. I don't know how to explain it but maybe it's because Flavia's better shot is her down the line backhand so it's much easier for her do this repeatedly against Alisa.

This is a very good win for Flavia against one of her pigeons, much better than her last dragged out FC match against Stosur. It might have helped that Alisa was dreadful in that second set (could barely hit three consecutive shots into the court ) but I still thought Flavia did well to counter the pace early on, made some amazing ROS (mostly on 2nd serves ) and stayed focused throughout. No epic mental collapse this time.
peanuts is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Feb 22nd, 2011, 04:50 AM   #17
country flag peanuts
Senior Member
 
peanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,931
peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Dubai SF: Sveta continues her pwnage of Flavia 6-4, 6-4

Well this one's a little disappointing. Flavia had early breaks in both sets but couldn't hold serve to build a substantial lead. I guess there is a reason why she has never won against Kuzy in 5 matches. For some reason, I noticed that Flavia doesn't seem to like Sveta's topspin shots. She shank some standard shots in the baseline and even her best shot the backhand down line is not as effective on the rallies. While Sveta is obviously the bigger hitter of the two, I also noticed she seemed to love the pace of shot coming from Flavia wherein she repeatedly managed to hit some amazing winners and was often able to wrong-foot Flavia on the baseline.

Flavia did try to impose her new aggressive game plan of finishing points early by going to the net. I just thought she was overdoing it a little and Sveta had started to get a good read on her approach shots giving her more difficult volleys to hit. Still there were some lovely net to baseline exchanges and a wily forehand dropshot from Flavia so those were all pretty awesome to watch.
peanuts is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 22nd, 2011, 10:09 AM   #18
country flag wiwa
Senior Member
 
wiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 643
wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

thanks Karla. I think there was a similarity between both matches - the record And both Alisa and Flavia made the same mistake. Press press press against their superior. Alisa mis-hit all her winners, FLavia was too overt at the net. I feel they should have changed pace for a while.

One more Flavia-thing, she hits her fh harder than ever. Maybe it made her muscles grow, but I feel she's at her limit there. I liked the tactical forehands, as they make the gameplay look smoother and more elegant to me.
wiwa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 22nd, 2011, 11:00 AM   #19
country flag peanuts
Senior Member
 
peanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,931
peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

^Yep it featured two bad match-ups. I think she was trying to play too aggressively so she won't get outhit on the baseline. The problem with this is that her serve wasn't clicking that day. Sveta scored a lot of free points on her ROS and even if they get on a rally, Flavia was usually put on a defensive position. As for trying a change of pace/more variation, it's not so easy to do this when you are facing a barrage of well-hit shots laced with topspin. The time is taken away from you to put that amount of control on the ball. Though maybe she could have hit a few moonballs here and there just to disrupt Sveta's rhythm.

Interesting observation...Fransceso also pointed out that Flavia seemed to be hitting with more topspin. This may well be the case and would also explain why she's able to hit harder. Unfortunately, Sveta loves the pace that was coming to her and was able to defend quite well from the baseline. Against the players that troubles her, this always seemed to be where Flavia gets beaten. The ceiling in her game as one analyst had said before (Tignor?) shows that her shots are not big enough to get past these players and when forced to go toe-to-toe in the rallies she more often than not ends up losing.

BTW, sorry if I sounded a little dire on the weaknesses of Flavia's game. They don't really matter too much to me as I love how fluid her shots look and she does play a pretty looking game. And I do think she can beat this kind of players but only if she maintains a very high level of play and if her opponent is missing more than usual.
peanuts is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 22nd, 2011, 02:12 PM   #20
country flag wiwa
Senior Member
 
wiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 643
wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Yeah, a fully agree to your last statement. Plus she plays very consistent over a season. She will win against most of the lower-ranked players on a regular and solid basis. Unlike Jankovic ...

Karla, don't mind the dire. That's what this thread is for. We can do it here so we don't spoil the cheering thread

how could Flavia possibly slow-down the game of her opponent?:
- moonballs: Flavia has.
- Slice shots: Flavia hasn't !!!
- play sharp and short angles with top-spin like Francesca: Flavia doesn't.
- overpower the opponent: Flavia weighs ten pounds less then most of her opponents.

the ceiling, as Tignor mentioned:
- she doesn't read the matches as well as, say, Beba, Clijsters, Wozniacki
- her only Plan B is 'fight'

I think she won't fix any of these things in her last years. Let's see how far her net game will carry her.
wiwa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23rd, 2011, 09:21 AM   #21
country flag Fantasy Hero
Senior Member
 
Fantasy Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bile yer heid
Posts: 62,757
Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

i don't agree with you all the line because Flavia can overpower her opponent using her smart mixture of different shots. H
er best way to slowdown the game usually is that loopy cross court FH that pushes the contender some meters far from the baseline, it's not a moonball but it works well on all surfaces and gives a lot of trouble to most of the girls (as usually FH is the weak side).
Another big weapon to change the rally is her dropshot which is quite effective on both sides and usually it's well hidden, you are right, she lacks of a good slice -even though she owns a quite good chop FH- and her BH has no top spin, but she fix that with her great anticipation.

about the way to prepare matches i'm again thinking differently from you, Flavia rarely flops a match tactically, or at least she rarelly doesn't know what to do (then you know, the other player can play too good to let her use her skills on court).
Flavia builds her wins on a solid game based on few schemes, pretty easy if you want, but as she lacks of many killing shots (IMO she has only one: BH down the line) so she has to work a lot on a rally to get into the ideal position to make a winner, cuz she cannot ask herself to hit FH winners from outside the court a la Sveta.
She has a great ability, she can use well the power of the shots she gets back to her, that's why she has positive records (or at least she can play close matches) against hard hitters like Sam, Masha, Venus, but as she lacks of these killing shots -or as you said she weights too few to overpower the opponent- she struggles with players with great defensive play -not just Caro, but Sveta and Fran too- as her "spider net", her complex way to get to the right position for a peace winner, seems useless and she often finish the rally with a UE (usually with FH as asks too much to it).

I think this new net game is a nice idea to shorter her matches, mostly in early rounds so that she can be fresher (and so run more, as she needs to run a lot against top players and she knows that, she can't dictate her game against all top 15) deeper in the draw. I think she needs some monthes to make this new gameeffective against the top names, but it is for sure a smart move -Flavia is one of the best players at net atm- and probably it can be a wise decision for Wimbly (and for the Olympic games)
__________________
In my native language they say:
A L' E' INUTIL INSEGNA' AL MUS, SI PIART TIMP E IN PLUI SI INFASTIDIS LA BESTIE!!
(translated) There is no gain in teaching the donkey, you waste your time and annoy the beast

http://ski-and-tennis.blogspot.it
my own blog with reviews and articles, have a look if you're intrested
Fantasy Hero is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23rd, 2011, 03:05 PM   #22
country flag peanuts
Senior Member
 
peanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,931
peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Nice to see FH joining the discussion here! BTW, what's your name? It's weird to call you FH. Wiwa, tell us your name too.

Very interesting point of view guys.

First I definitely haven't seen Flavia hit a good slice especially on her BH so I have to agree on you with that one.

FH, you make a good point on Flavia being able to overpower with a mix of good shots but I think what we're trying to point out here is that on raw pace alone Flavia loses against the big hitters. While she's perfectly capable of hitting clean winners, it's just much more difficult for her to end a neutral rally to her favor especially against good movers (as you have also rightly pointed out). BTW, I actually don't consider Sveta as a good mover. She has poor footwork but she is quite athletic so she can get a lot of balls back from a defensive position.

I actually think Flavia has good tactics but I've seen her is some matches where she seemed to be completely lost mentally. When this happens she either goes on hit it harder mode or retrieve like hell mode.

As for the net game, this is the definitely the right approach not only because she's good at the net and it's working for her but also because she is not getting any younger. This game plan is easier on her body as she has to play shorter points and doesn't need to get into needless rallies against wall-like players.
peanuts is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23rd, 2011, 07:36 PM   #23
country flag Fantasy Hero
Senior Member
 
Fantasy Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bile yer heid
Posts: 62,757
Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute Fantasy Hero has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Nice to know you i'm Gaspa
__________________
In my native language they say:
A L' E' INUTIL INSEGNA' AL MUS, SI PIART TIMP E IN PLUI SI INFASTIDIS LA BESTIE!!
(translated) There is no gain in teaching the donkey, you waste your time and annoy the beast

http://ski-and-tennis.blogspot.it
my own blog with reviews and articles, have a look if you're intrested
Fantasy Hero is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 15th, 2011, 09:30 PM   #24
country flag wiwa
Senior Member
 
wiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 643
wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

^Gaspa
In an earlier post I mixed up your name with someone who is called Giulio. Sorry for that.

Your metaphor of spider web is brilliant. TBH, I don't know much about creating points on the court. AFAIR the match agqainst Caro in Dubai was even a bit different. Here's the link again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado90 View Post
I already found it!...good vision, even if Flakira was demolished

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9WORTIE3 Woz-Pen set1
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J883T821 Woz-Pen set2
There were four successful shots of Flavia that I had never seen her play before (maybe because she was desperated this time):
1. a bh cross stop from the base line, it was the very first game I believe
2. a running fh down the line, hit flat without spin, 3rd or 4th game of 2nd set
3. a short cross top spin fh
4. a short cross top spin bh

Why did she lose anyway?
In the 1st set she lost her momentum at 2:1 40:15, because she became a sort of lax; her body language was almost arrogant - and so she spoiled the next point. Caro immediatly punished Flavia for this lapse, like she always does. Or better - she terminated her.
Why? Because Flavias "improved" top spin fh was too short many times. That's were ~20 of Caros 30 winners came from.
Also Caro had an improved game plan. She avoided rallyes, always played left-right so that Flavia couldn't nail her at a corner like in their previous match. Caros left-right game led to another ~10 winners. Flavia could create point only when her serve was perfect, which was too rarely the case.
wiwa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 16th, 2011, 04:50 AM   #25
country flag peanuts
Senior Member
 
peanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,931
peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

^Thanks for that review Willy! (It's your name right? ) Gaspa. Gaspa is a sounding name.

I haven't seen the entire match, just a handful of games in the first set. Flavia seemed to have wasted a lot of game points. I'll watch the entire match and look out for those things you've mentioned and will post more on what I think.
peanuts is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 16th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #26
country flag wiwa
Senior Member
 
wiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 643
wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanuts View Post
Flavia seemed to have wasted a lot of game points. I'll watch the entire match ...
it was the 4th game of the 1st set (2:1 Flavia to serve). Watch the 4th game of the 2nd set also. I think these two games were real highlights.
wiwa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19th, 2011, 03:28 PM   #27
country flag peanuts
Senior Member
 
peanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,931
peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

Finally got to watch Flavia vs Caro @ Dubai match...Some match notes I took...

Flavia actually played quite well especially in the first few games. Lovely forehand dropshot at 2-1. But she just can't seem to string together consecutive pts when they're at deuce (prime example is the epic game @ 2-1, 1st set). Flavia would play well to get up to Ad and on the next point she would get drawn into a baseline rally in which she gets push back far behind the baseline and would ultimately lose the point. On times that she tried to end the point immediately, she more often than not ends up with an UE. With someone as consistent in Caro, you just can't give too many points away as Caro would rarely missed on standard rallies. I really think she should have been more steady and patient in working her way through on each point during these tight moments. Easier said than done of course. In the end Caro did too well in what she does best which is to outsteady her opponents and drive them crazy with her wall-like consisteny.

Also as correctly pointed out by someone at GM, Caro got away with a lot winners in this match because Flavia is not as fast (I don't wanna say slow ) in getting to the ball. When she manages to get to the ball she doesn't have enough time to hit a good defensive shot, giving Caro a lot of short balls to attack. Flavia actually looks faster than she actually is. She anticipates well, is light on her feet and has good footwork in getting into the right hitting position but she is no Myskina when it comes to footspeed.
peanuts is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #28
country flag wiwa
Senior Member
 
wiwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 643
wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all wiwa is a name known to all
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

^ wow, your match comment reads completely different from mine. I guess only a tennis player can write it like this, but it is interesting. As a humble spectator I can't see all these details but yeah they definitly are an essential part of the composition. (Not sure if one may call tennis a composition)

Last year someone in this forum said that Flavia isn't as fast anymore as she was in 2009, so your observation goes in the same direction.

btw, you copied my error: the match was in Doha not in Dubai
wiwa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #29
country flag peanuts
Senior Member
 
peanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,931
peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute peanuts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

^I do agree with some of your observations. IIRC, she had a low % of 1st serve for this match. In the games where she wasted game pts, Caro was able to move her around the court like a wiper (I take it this what you mean by left-right play?) because Flavia is giving her a lot of short serves to attack. Caro would hit a deep return which then puts Flavia immediately into defense mode. Also, Flavia hitting short FHs certainly did not help her but this is usually the result of her getting pushed around the baseline. Not enough time to take a good swing at the ball.

As for Flavia's body language, I noticed she looked tired even before the match started. I supposed this is not too surprising considering how many matches she had played since AO.

Oh yeah it's in Doha. I keep mixing up those two.
peanuts is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19th, 2011, 09:35 PM   #30
country flag chmath
Senior Member
 
chmath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,427
chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold chmath is a splendid one to behold
Re: Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition

What an absolutely fabulous analysis by both! For what it's worth, I really do feel that our girl is a complete rhythm player and fatigue is definitely beginning to kick in when the volume of matches comes thick and fast. She looked in absolutely fantastic shape during the Australian, kudos the fact that she took Kvitova to three sets and could have actually won that match under circumstances, backed it up with two fabulous performances in the FedCup, marvelous run in Dubai, not bad in Doha and then, after two weeks off, she appeared to be all out of sync- kudos the quick doubles and singles losses. The flip side to that is that she ought to have been fresh, but clearly, that didn't appear to be the case. Or perhaps some kind of niggling injury, who knows??

Speed is definitely an issue, her anticipation has always been exceptional and so has her wit, but well unfortunately now she is set up to be well and truly hit off the court by certain types of players. Others, into whose head she can get, remain vulnerable... Still, I expect a good 2011 and it will be very interesting to see her on clay...
chmath is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios