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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 07:51 PM   #1
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Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

Is it permitted for a player to have a conversation about where to hit to with the "trainer" she called?
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #2
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

I think they get to designate who stands in as their "coach." Didn't Flavia do it for Camerin or someone once?
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 09:02 PM   #3
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

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Originally Posted by edificio View Post
I think they get to designate who stands in as their "coach." Didn't Flavia do it for Camerin or someone once?
So on-court coaching is allowed? Szavay had her coach come down and talk about using the backhand etc.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 09:05 PM   #4
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

Yes, the WTA hasn't given up on it. Also, Oudin had her coach down (dumpy Brian deVilliers) twice. He didn't say much the first time, just encouraged her to stick to the plan. The second time he talked longer, complimented her play and reminded her to stick with the plan (I think it was to hit to her forehand). Szavay didn't seem happy about not having the ball hit to her backhand. Obviously, both sides had their strategies worked out beforehand!
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 09:25 PM   #5
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

Okay. I thought they had canned it sometime in mid-2009.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #6
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

It's against the rules in the ATP, and at the slams. The WTA has some kind of experimant with it. Serena actually designated Venus as her coach once in a tournament they were both playing in!

There's coaching 'from the box'. And there's having your coach come on to the court. Coaching 'from the box', the stereotypic Carlos Rodriguez hand signals to justine Henin, is still completely illegal. But you can have, in the WTA, at certain tournaments, the coach come down to the court for a chat.

I hate on-court coaching, but the rule against it was created during a time where people cared if others thought they were cheats or not. If the player doesn't care if everyone knows she cheats, and fans don;t care if their favorite player cheats, and the sponsors don;t care if a player cheats, what can a chair umpire do? kow 50 languages and 200 different hand signs?

Maria Sharpaova cheated in every slam she won, and she, potentially, can make more in endorsements than any player in history. Sponsors don't care. Cheating isn't the rule. Most players can't afford a traveling partner to sit in their box to help them cheat. It's limited to the players who make a lot of money. And you don;t see most of them being coached from the friends box. But if the WTA and the ITF aren't going tp enforce the rule, they are always going to be dishnonest players who cheat.

NOTE: I should NOT pick on Maria Sharapova. She certainly isn't the most succesul player who ever got coached from the box.

NOTE: Anybody who says that all players get coached is not only lying, they KNOW they're lying. It's not even possible for most players. But look at a lot of the big names.

Lindsay Davenport's Mom was never giving her signals. Unless 'Spike it! Hit right through that block!" translates from volleyball to tennis. And while I think Orecene Can signal her children in her sleep (most mothers can) there's no indication that she does. Venus' OZ results are pretty much proof. (ANYONE could have coached her to a win in that last QF at OZ.) I have never heard of Amelie Maursemo ever being coached. Or Anastasia Myskina. Or Iva Majioli.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 09:50 PM   #7
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

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Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
And while I think Orecene Can signal her children in her sleep (most mothers can) there's no indication that she does.
Oracene prefers to shout out things. Like, "Get Out of Melbourne!"

And I always wondered early in Venus's and Serena's career, whether Richard leaving the stadium was code for anything. Or the camera.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #8
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post



Lindsay Davenport's Mom was never giving her signals. Unless 'Spike it! Hit right through that block!" translates from volleyball to tennis. And while I think Orecene Can signal her children in her sleep (most mothers can) there's no indication that she does. Venus' OZ results are pretty much proof. (ANYONE could have coached her to a win in that last QF at OZ.) I have never heard of Amelie Maursemo ever being coached. Or Anastasia Myskina. Or Iva Majioli.
It's hard to coach when you're cowering in terror. Good ol' Nastya. But how did she not get repeated penalties for audible obscenities?
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #9
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

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Originally Posted by moby View Post
Oracene prefers to shout out things. Like, "Get Out of Melbourne!"

And I always wondered early in Venus's and Serena's career, whether Richard leaving the stadium was code for anything. Or the camera.
You are really reaching? Aren't

Richard leaving the stadium amounts to coaching now?

What other conspiracy theory can you come up with?
Carlos would be offended by this comparison.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 10:28 PM   #10
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

A rule that cannot be enforced shouldn't even be a rule.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 10:42 PM   #11
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

Yeah, sure it is but umpires can't be bothered doing their jobs and enforcing the rules so...

As for Richard and Oracene. Richard and Oracene have both left the stadium; both have explained on each occasion why they did. Richard, because he couldn't bear watching some of Venus' up-and-down play against Hingis and because he'd lost patience with how she was playing (and was surprised when the news came in that she'd actually won). Oracene because Serena was on the verge of the Serena slam, and she couldn't handle the tension after one of Serena's shots had been called out. I don't see how either instance was a secret instruction to anyone.

Despite their reputations, of the two I can actually refer to specific instances of Oracene coaching or attempting to coach (with of course "Get Out of Melobourne" being the most infamous). When I think of Richard in the stands I think of that zoom lens camera or some of penchant for shorts and dances. Otherwise, I'd actually argue that especially in recent times, of the two parents he is the more impassive as a spectator. I don't think Oracene is nearly as 'bored' or indifferent as some of her pressers suggest...

And I'm with Volcana. There's plenty of evidence that not "all" players get coached from the stands, or seek it. (And it's such a weak justification for it anyway. Even if you argued that "everybody" at some stage or other ran red lights, it would hardly amount to a defense of the pratice.) Dav is the perfect example of a player who won or lost on her own terms. Heck, her mom rarely ever attended her matches anyway so she'd have scant opportunity to tell her anything.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 11:28 PM   #12
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
It's against the rules in the ATP, and at the slams. The WTA has some kind of experimant with it. Serena actually designated Venus as her coach once in a tournament they were both playing in!

There's coaching 'from the box'. And there's having your coach come on to the court.
Sorry to not give your heart-felt expression its due but I don't care much about some hand signals from the player's box. It can't convey that much that's significant. And I have seen it done - in varying degrees - with many players.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 11:30 PM   #13
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

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Originally Posted by Midnight_Robber View Post
Heck, her mom rarely ever attended her matches anyway so she'd have scant opportunity to tell her anything.
Her mom wasn't her coach.
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Old Feb 12th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #14
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Re: Isn't on-court coaching agaisnt the rules?

You're right Dunlop - sure she was no Yuri, Oracene, etc. and neither was her husband who occasionally attended her matches. Nevertheless, when did anyone in Lindsay's camp (coach, hitting partern, family member, fan whoever) covertly try to tell her what to do from the stands?

Quote:
A rule that cannot be enforced shouldn't even be a rule.
Can't be enforced, or won't be enforced? You can't even argue that it's difficult (let alone possible) to enforce when umpires barely even make the attempt in the first place.
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