Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2 - Page 178 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jun 4th, 2013, 01:55 AM   #2656
country flag XTN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 366
XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Just out of curiosity, I decided to watch this match on youtube. With even double-bagels nowadays taking close to an hour sometimes, I found it almost unbelievable that a match would take only 32 minutes to play. As it turns out, it really was that quick.

I remember talking to my friend yesterday saying how, with a 6-0 6-0 loss, there would have been 5 changeovers that would take 7 1/2 minutes so those 32 minutes were in fact 24 1/2. That is just crazy fast. And it's good to see these articles because again, I thought to myself, while this is officially the second shortest Grand Slam final in history, they didn't have changeovers back in the day. As it turns out, not taking into account the changeovers, Graf did take less time.

I think this was a case where Zvereva just really didn't play well at all. Was she "Graffed", to use a word coined by Ms. Anthropic? She was one point away from winning her first service game, but after that, she just seemed completely in over her head. While I was upset that Graf lost to Zvereva in 1998 for the first and only time during Wimbledon, I guess Zvereva did deserve some kind of redemption after that loss. I'm curious now to see that interview where Natasha manages to just joke about this bad loss.
XTN is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Jun 4th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #2657
country flag tennisfan2808
Senior Member
 
tennisfan2808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

That was my earlier question too: How on earth did Steffi manage to beat opponents 6-1 6-0 or 6-0 6-1 in 35-40 mins (or in this case, 6-0 6-0 in 32 mins)? Because I do realize that some matches have the same scoreline, but it usually takes about 1 hour or so. I finally watched a couple of her matches when she did that... Well, the answer is: Steffi didnt waste time on the court at all, she was so fast between points, after the change-overs, and when she served, if her first serves went in, in those kind of matches, she would usually hit a forehand winner soon after she hit her first serves. And as Ms Anthropic said earlier, in those days, many of the players were not used to being bombarded by such devastating pace of her shots, especially her forehand, of course. And they got afraid whenever they had to play a second serve that it almost became pretty obvious that it would be weak and Steffi would run around and hit a forehand winner inside-out or down the line. Even if there was a rather "long" rally, Steffi would be fast enough to end it with another forehand winner or at least something that would draw a forced error. Oh and mind you, she got delicate drop shots too. That helps her win points too
tennisfan2808 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5th, 2013, 01:51 AM   #2658
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by XTN View Post
Just out of curiosity, I decided to watch this match on youtube. With even double-bagels nowadays taking close to an hour sometimes, I found it almost unbelievable that a match would take only 32 minutesto play. As it turns out, it really was that quick.
For the most part, Steffi did not dally between points. Especially not after short points. None of this toweling off, fiddling with strings, fussing over balls after a point that lasted 5 seconds. I think Steffi realized early on that she was not being paid by the hour, and certainly realized that the spectators wanted to see tennis being played, not two people strolling around by the backstop or performing strange rituals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XTN View Post
I remember talking to my friend yesterday saying how, with a 6-0 6-0 loss, there would have been 5 changeovers that would take 7 1/2 minutes so those 32 minutes were in fact 24 1/2. That is just crazy fast.
Akshully, I think it's rather crazier than that. This was still the period of changeovers after the first game. So by my count, that's six changeovers. What's the proper emoticon to put here?

That's why that 1986 U.S. Clay Court match time versus Vermaak really astounds me (if it's correct). A 10 minute 6-0 set, a 20 minute 6-2 set. If that really does include changeover time, it boggles the mind. 10 minutes minus three 90 second changeovers equals 5 minutes and 30 seconds of actual playing time. To win six games. To play 28 points. On clay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XTN View Post
I think this was a case where Zvereva just really didn't play well at all. Was she "Graffed", to use a word coined by Ms. Anthropic?
To me, Zvereva had the ultimate compound case of Steffi Hysteria, Type 2 getting Graffed*, rookie nerves, and personality/occasion incompatibility (Zvereva could perform well on a "big stage" but she needed someone on the same side of the net).

Quote:
Originally Posted by XTN View Post
She was one point away from winning her first service game, but after that, she just seemed completely in over her head. While I was upset that Graf lost to Zvereva in 1998 for the first and only time during Wimbledon, I guess Zvereva did deserve some kind of redemption after that loss. I'm curious now to see that interview where Natasha manages to just joke about this bad loss.
The bits and pieces I have of Zvereva's Wim. 1998 press conference are a riot. Paraphrasing: "Do I want to think about the fifth time she beat me or the eleventh time? Oooh, I think I won a set the seventh time, that was a good one!" Another great (serious) part was when she said Steffi looked her in the eyes as they shook hands at the net and said "Good match" (or maybe it was "Well played"). You can tell from look on Natasha's face that that was one of the most meaningful, satisfying moments in her career. She's not gloating or boasting, it's more of a "Coming from her, it's one of the greatest compliments I've ever had" look.

* There are three types of getting Graffed, which can be best described by what the opponent is thinking during certain points.

Type 1: Hah, she'll never get to that one. -- Well, even though she did, she'll never be able to do anything with it. -- What does she think she's doing? That's crazy, there's no way that can work. -- Oh, no. I lost the point.

Type 2: I know she's going to get to that one, but should I do about it? -- OK, I'll try this now. -- Nope, she's got it. -- I'm doing everything right, and I'm going to lose the point anyway. -- Oh, no. I lost the point.

Type 3: Wow, look at that! She's totally amazing! -- Wait a minute! I'm not a spectator, I'm her opponent! -- Oh, no. I lost the point.

Obviously, after enough Type 1 and Type 2 Graffing, the opponents would feel forced to "try to hit shots they can't make, to search for a game they don't have" (Barbara Potter). The opponent would feel pressured to aim for the outside edge of the lines and miss, even if landing the ball a foot inside the line would have won the point, just because of the tremendous gets and racket magic Steffi had pulled off in the past. Every flick-of-the-wrist running forehand, every back-to-the-net backhand down the line, every drop volley chased down, every half-volley-from-the-baseline backhand drop shot (with extra side spin!) would win even more points in the future, just from the fear factor. This is what Sun Tzu might call "the acme of skill."
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 5th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #2659
country flag XTN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 366
XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light XTN is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Anthropic View Post
Akshully, I think it's rather crazier than that. This was still the period of changeovers after the first game. So by my count, that's six changeovers. What's the proper emoticon to put here?

That's why that 1986 U.S. Clay Court match time versus Vermaak really astounds me (if it's correct). A 10 minute 6-0 set, a 20 minute 6-2 set. If that really does include changeover time, it boggles the mind. 10 minutes minus three 90 second changeovers equals 5 minutes and 30 seconds of actual playing time. To win six games. To play 28 points. On clay.
Oh you are right! I forgot about that. But yeah, if you watch Steffi, there really almost no time lost in between points. What was she averaging, something like 10-15 seconds between points? Amazing. I also love the fact that back in the 80s, the ball intended for the second serve was in her hand. If she didn't need a second serve, she would play the point with the ball in her hand.
XTN is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6th, 2013, 12:25 AM   #2660
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Fourteen years later and she is STILL Graffing people!

From a recent interview with Laura Robson:

Who inspired you to get into tennis?

I was inspired to get into tennis by watching Steffi Graf - she has always been my idol. I was lucky enough to meet her last year and hopefully I’ll be able to hit with her in the near future. I think she’d probably kill me, but I’d still love it.
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6th, 2013, 12:41 AM   #2661
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by XTN View Post
Oh you are right! I forgot about that. But yeah, if you watch Steffi, there really almost no time lost in between points. What was she averaging, something like 10-15 seconds between points? Amazing. I also love the fact that back in the 80s, the ball intended for the second serve was in her hand. If she didn't need a second serve, she would play the point with the ball in her hand.
I recall HBO timing how long Steffi and Jenny were taking in the 1993 Wimbledon quarterfinal. I think the longest was 15 seconds. I also recall something about Steffi taking 5.2 seconds on average to play a point going into the semis at Wimbledon 1992. Just crazy.

I know a lot of the players from before the Open Era like Budge and some of the Aussies wholeheartedly approved of her holding the second ball. What's even more amazing is that Gaby did, too. The odds of two kids rekindling the (even then) antiquated practice are slim.
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6th, 2013, 12:44 PM   #2662
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Martina keeps digging that hole a little deeper. "I should have stayed back and hit forehands like Steffi"??? Martina, your forehand was/is nothing like Steffi's! The grip, the stance, the mechanics/dynamics, the philosophy (and the results) -- all totally different. I have often wondered whether Navratilova and her team really didn't understand what Steffi was doing, or whether they just didn't want to admit certain things, both to themselves and publicly.

We note that Steffi is respectful of Martina's record and position on grass, but we also note that Steffi has yet to set foot on the turf this year. Her estimation of her chances will change dramatically after a few practice sessions...

Graf says Wimbledon poses a problem
Houston Chronicle
Monday, JUNE 6, 1988
Associated Press

PARIS - Steffi Graf is two-for-two in Grand Slam tournaments this year after her crushing victory in the French Open final. But she says it will be tough to keep up the pace on the grass courts at Wimbledon.

The West German with a lethal forehand certainly looked unbeatable on clay, winning seven straight matches at Roland Garros stadium without losing a set. The women's final Saturday was a mismatch as Graf demolished 17-year-old Natalia Zvereva of the Soviet Union 6-0, 6-0, losing only 13 points in a blitz that lasted just 32 minutes.

But Graf, 18, said afterward she doesn't expect to dominate on grass the way she does on slow clay surfaces. She gave second-ranked Martina Navratilova a strong chance to take a record ninth Wimbledon championship later this month.

"The favorite to win is Martina, and there are some other strong players on grass,'' Graf said.

Navratilova, who lost to Zvereva in the fourth round here, said Sunday it was painful to watch the women's final.

"It was a disaster. Steffi played a great match, but she didn't get much opposition,'' Navratilova said. "I said, 'How could I lose to this girl?' I should have stayed back and hit forehands like Steffi instead of trying to serve and volley.''

But not many women hit forehands like Graf, who combines power with accuracy to make the shot a formidable weapon from anywhere on the court as her opponents keep trying to force her to play her backhand instead.

"She waits for it, and plays forehands from the backhand corner,'' Navratilova said.

Navratilova got some consolation Sunday, winning the women's doubles with Pam Shriver 6-2, 7-5 over Claudia Kohde-Kilsch of West Germany and Helena Sukova of Czechoslovakia. It was Navratilova's 50th Grand Slam title.

She is currently tied with Helen Wills Moody for the most Wimbledon singles titles, both with eight, and she has won the past six years in a row, a record.

But she said many players with strong serve-and-volley games could give her trouble on the fast grass surface.

"On grass it's a lot more open than on clay,'' she said. "Steffi really doesn't have a grass court record. But she's still a great player. I don't care even if she plays on cobblestones.''

Graf certainly would have won on Saturday, no matter what the court surface.

Zvereva, last year's junior champion at the French Open, Wimbledon and the U.S. Open, looked nervous and outclassed. She won three points in a single game only once, reaching 40-30 in the second game before Graf won three straight points to break serve.

If she could win Wimbledon and the U.S. Open, Graf would become the first woman since Margaret Court Smith in 1970 to complete the Grand Slam - winning Wimbledon and the Australian, French and U.S. Opens - in one calendar year.

"I'll be trying my best to make sure she doesn't get it,'' Navratilova said. "But I'm not trying to stop her from getting the Grand Slam. I'm trying to win.''

Navratilova said she has plenty to look forward to at Wimbledon without thinking about stopping Graf or making up for her French Open showing.

"I'll be fired up and ready to go,'' she said. "I don't need any incentive for Wimbledon.''
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 6th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #2663
country flag tennisfan2808
Senior Member
 
tennisfan2808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 229
tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all tennisfan2808 is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Just watched the FO women's semi. The 2 commentators were asking each other, who their favorite female player was. The lady commentator (if I'm not wrong is Lucy Ahl) said, Steffi Graf for sure. The male commentator (if I'm not wrong is Todd Woodbridge) said, I agree with you. Steffi is my most favorite player too. I dont know her that well, but she seems to be a very nice person.
tennisfan2808 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11th, 2013, 12:31 PM   #2664
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

A match for Princess - Princess of Wales plays tennis with Steffi Graf
The Times
London, England
Saturday, June 11, 1988

The Princess of Wales enjoyed mixed fortunes yesterday after joining the tennis star Steffi Graf for a few sets of doubles at the Vanderbilt Club in Shepherds Bush, west London.

The Princess and her frequent tennis partner Mr Charles Swallow, a director of the club, were first beaten by Miss Graf and her partner Lord Willoughby de Broke 3-6. The women then joined forces to beat their partners 6-5 after a tie-break.

After the matches, Miss Graf and Mr Swallow both praised the Princess's ability on court. Miss Graf was quoted as saying: "We had a lot of fun. She told me that she usually only plays once a week and had only been playing for a year, so I think she plays quite well. She has a good serve and forehand."

Mr Swallow said: "She played some very good shots. There was one memorable one when she hit the ball down the sideline, and Steffi couldn't get to it."

The Princess was at the club to open the European office of the Women's International Tennis Association. Miss Graf, aged 18, presented the Princess with the racket she had used to beat Natalia Zvereva in the French Open final last week.
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11th, 2013, 12:32 PM   #2665
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

PEOPLE
Houston Chronicle
Saturday, JUNE 11, 1988
Houston Chronicle News Services

Curtsies blended with crosscourt shots Friday when the reigning queen of tennis met a real-life princess. Steffi Graf, the world's No. 1 women's tennis player, gave Britain's Princess Diana a private workout in a mixed doubles match at the Vanderbilt Racquet Club. Before the match, Graf presented the princess with the racket she had used to win the French Open last week. The 18-year-old West German, partnered by club member Lord Willoughby de Broke, won the first set against the princess and club director Charles Swallow 6-3. "I hope Steffi realizes this is a friendly match,'' Swallow said before the match. In the next set of the 40-minute, two-set match, the players swapped partners, with the princess teaming with Graf against the men. After five games, all the players agreed on an early tie-breaker, which the women won 7-5.

The princess was at the private tennis club to unveil a plaque marking the opening of the European office of the Women's International Tennis Association. According to London newspaper reports, the princess, a keen amateur player who watched Graf lose last year's Wimbledon final against Martina Navratilova, specifically asked to play against the teen-ager when she was invited by the club to perform the unveiling ceremony. Graf arrived 15 minutes late because of a combination of heavy traffic and the uncertainty of the driver as to the club's location. An embarrassed Graf, wearing track-suit top and tennis skirt, apologized to the princess for her lateness. When Graf told the princess she had thought of getting on a motorcycle in an effort to dodge the traffic, the Princess of Wales said: "In that gear, it would have been exciting.''

[....]
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #2666
country flag 4times
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 52
4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice 4times is just really nice
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

"I hope Steffi realizes this is a friendly match,'' Swallow said before the match.

When Graf told the princess she had thought of getting on a motorcycle in an effort to dodge the traffic, the Princess of Wales said: "In that gear, it would have been exciting.''

[....][/quote]


4times is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12th, 2013, 07:16 AM   #2667
country flag Hugues Daniel
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Hugues Daniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Manosque
Posts: 9,718
Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrust View Post
Overall I still think that Court had the toughest competition throughout her career: Bueno, King, Hard, Jones, Wade, Mortimer, Cassals, Richey and Turner. Late career had Evert, Goolagong and Navratilova. She certainly had much tougher competition than Graf did most of her career.
Since I answer Thrust about Graf, I move my quote to the Graf thread (from the Chris and Evonne one). Here's the competition Graf had in her reigning years (just mentionning the major GS seeds from 1987 to 1999):

Navratilova, Evert, Sabatini, Novotna, Seles, Fernandez, Martinez, the Maleeva sisters, Mandlikova, Sukova, Sanchez, Capriati, Svereva, Pierce, Davenport, Tauziat, Hingis, Majoli, Spirlea, the Williams sisters.

No doubt they were a competition as tough as the previous decades ones. Without Graf, most of them would have made it bigger, beside the fact Navratilova, Evert, Seles, Hingis and the Williams sisters were equal phenomenons.

Players like Sabatini, Martinez, Mandlikova, Tauziat, Novotna, were at the level of Goolagong, Casals or Wade to me. But at the same time there was coming the powerful tennis of Graf, Seles, Capriati, Davenport, Pierce to change the rules. Who was hitting the ball as them in the seventies? Only Navratilova succeeded in working harder to counter the new powers in place.

In 1999, Graf won the French after defeating no less than Davenport, Seles and Hingis in a row! If that's not tough competition, I don't know what is!
Hugues Daniel is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #2668
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4times View Post
"I hope Steffi realizes this is a friendly match,'' Swallow said before the match.

When Graf told the princess she had thought of getting on a motorcycle in an effort to dodge the traffic, the Princess of Wales said: "In that gear, it would have been exciting.''

[....]


It is even funnier if you know just how bad Steffi was at operating a motorcycle. She had the press in stitches once (Philly in 1995), telling them about her mishaps.
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #2669
country flag Ms. Anthropic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,241
Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all Ms. Anthropic is a name known to all
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugues Daniel View Post
Players like Sabatini, Martinez, Mandlikova, Tauziat, Novotna, were at the level of Goolagong, Casals or Wade to me. But at the same time there was coming the powerful tennis of Graf, Seles, Capriati, Davenport, Pierce to change the rules. Who was hitting the ball as them in the seventies? Only Navratilova succeeded in working harder to counter the new powers in place.

In 1999, Graf won the French after defeating no less than Davenport, Seles and Hingis in a row! If that's not tough competition, I don't know what is!

You must understand that, for those given to the disposition, every opponent can be explained away as weak or unworthy. Many years ago in another forum, we "proved" that every great tennis player sucks, just to make fun of the people with too strong a penchant for saying, "But he/she never had to face strong opposition!" Of course, those people did not understand it.

It's a fruitless debate, because there is simply no way to know how successful the "supporting cast" members would have been if the stars of their era were off doing something else and because there is simply too much of comparing watermelons with sledgehammers, to botch a metaphor. I know what I think, and I know the reasons why I think it. But for the people who prefer other eras and feel defensive enough about their preference, my reasons are not reasons: they are biases (even though if we switched out the names with ones more to their liking, they would suddenly consider them to be excellent reasons). Likewise, if I ask people for their reasons for their opinions and get things that fit the definitions of "opinion" and "speculation" and "bias," I know I would be torn down if I tried to use the same "arguments" to support my position. In the realm of debating tennis history, it's an amusing, if frustrating, foible. Unfortunately, it's not confined to debating tennis history and it is one of the three biggest causes of the real life mess we are in.
Ms. Anthropic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13th, 2013, 07:49 AM   #2670
country flag Hugues Daniel
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Hugues Daniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Manosque
Posts: 9,718
Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute Hugues Daniel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Steffi Graf Admiration Thread Vol 2

Very well put thoughts, Ms Anthropic.

For my case I don't feel especially defensive about any champion of any era, I admire them all. I first love tennis for the beauty of the game, the style of the players (from the 20's to now), and I also dig the historical approach, past and present, that helps to understand thousands of little things.
Hugues Daniel is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios