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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:19 AM   #1
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Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

It's always Steffi's 22, and Chris and Martina's 18. What about these two?
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:23 AM   #2
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

Many people disregard their totals because a lot of them were won prior to the open era...Not really fair honestly, but I do think they get less respect by many because the fields they competed against are looked upon as having been weaker during that time.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:25 AM   #3
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

They do mention them but the slams they won before the open era are excluded. Steffi and Chris slams were all in the open era.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:39 AM   #4
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

Most of the great players of Court's era did not play the Aussie Open, as it was not highly regarded and coincided with team tennis I think. And I think nearly half of Court's 24 came from pre-Open Era Aussie Opens. Not that she wasn't great though. A Grand Slam in any year with any field is Great in my book.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:41 AM   #5
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

Doesn't it also have to do with amateur vs professional status. Grandslam tournaments before the Open era were only played by amateur tennis players. The better players turned professional so they could earn money and make a living. Because the professional players were not allowed to play the competition for the Grandslams was regarded as weak.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:43 AM   #6
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

They didn't have as much tough competition to deal with.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:50 AM   #7
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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They didn't have as much tough competition to deal with.
What about Steffi? As if she had much competition after Monica was stabbed.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:57 AM   #8
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

Quote:

Doesn't it also have to do with amateur vs professional status. Grandslam tournaments before the Open era were only played by amateur tennis players. The better players turned professional so they could earn money and make a living. Because the professional players were not allowed to play the competition for the Grandslams was regarded as weak.
This was more an issue for the men than the women. Most of the top women remained amateur

Quote:
They didn't have as much tough competition to deal with.
They also had to travel long distances without an entourage to pamper their little behinds like today's players. Helen Wills never got to enter the Aussie.
Court's 24 and Wills 19 slams are major acheivements.


Quote:
Most of the great players of Court's era did not play the Aussie Open, as it was not highly regarded and coincided with team tennis I think. And I think nearly half of Court's 24 came from pre-Open Era Aussie Opens. Not that she wasn't great though. A Grand Slam in any year with any field is Great in my book.
It's true many of the top ten often skipped the Aussie in Court's era. Some years were stronger thna others. World Team Tennis (1974-1978) cut into the French, not the Aussie.

Anyone intersted in tennis past please come pay us a visit at the Blast From the Past-where we celebrate all the oldies but goodies
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 02:57 AM   #9
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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What about Steffi? As if she had much competition after Monica was stabbed.
This is a statement to your intelligence. The other top players of Court's era werent allowed to play in the AO, which made the fields pretty weak. Monica getted stabbed by some nutcase took her away from the game, but it didnt change the fact that there were other competitive players in the draw. If you cant see how big a difference that is then...
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 03:05 AM   #10
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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This is a statement to your intelligence. The other top players of Court's era werent allowed to play in the AO, which made the fields pretty weak. Monica getted stabbed by some nutcase took her away from the game, but it didnt change the fact that there were other competitive players in the draw.

Hi Young-Gunner It was more complicated than that. Some of Court's Aussie titles were won against the very best. The first year she won (1960) she upset the world #1, Maria Bueno. Even in weaker years she had 4 or 5 other women in the top ten. In fact it is due to Margaret and the other Aussies that the Federation Cup was born in 1963. When the Fed Cup came to Australia in 1965 most the women (including Bueno, Billie Jen King, and Ann Jones) stuck around to play the Aussie.

You are generally correct about the fields being weak though. You can only beat who is in front of you though, and Court did have competitive players in the draw every year she won Down Under.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 03:11 AM   #11
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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This is a statement to your intelligence. The other top players of Court's era werent allowed to play in the AO, which made the fields pretty weak. Monica getted stabbed by some nutcase took her away from the game, but it didnt change the fact that there were other competitive players in the draw. If you cant see how big a difference that is then...
1. I never said that the fields in the AO were weaker when Margaret won her slams there.

2. They weren't THAT weak. She beat BJK, Maria Bueno and Evonne Goolagong.

3. Who did Steffi have as her main competitors after Monica was sabbed? ASV and Martinez? Yeah, they're really in Monica's league. You're the one who needs
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 03:12 AM   #12
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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Hi Young-Gunner It was more complicated than that. Some of Court's Aussie titles were won against the very best. The first year she won (1960) she upset the world #1, Maria Bueno. Even in weaker years she had 4 or 5 other women in the top ten. In fact it is due to Margaret and the other Aussies that the Federation Cup was born in 1963. When the Fed Cup came to Australia in 1965 most the women (including Bueno, Billie Jen King, and Ann Jones) stuck around to play the Aussie.

You are generally correct about the fields being weak though. You can only beat who is in front of you though, and Court did have competitive players in the draw every year she won Down Under.
I agree, but how classless was it of Bueno to retire when she was down 5-2 in the third set?
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 03:17 AM   #13
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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1. I never said that the fields in the AO were weaker when Margaret won her slams there.

2. They weren't THAT weak. She beat BJK, Maria Bueno and Evonne Goolagong.

3. Who did Steffi have as her main competitors after Monica was sabbed? ASV and Martinez? Yeah, they're really in Monica's league. You're the one who needs
Some AO fields Court won were 32 players draw which does not compare to today'a number of draw places!
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 03:27 AM   #14
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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I agree, but how classless was it of Bueno to retire when she was down 5-2 in the third set?
Hello Davgis


Maria didn't have much of a choice. She was cramping under the intense Aussie sun. There was no nice umbrella, injury timeouts, trainers,or the other comforts today's players have. They women did have a ten minute break before the third set, but Maria went over on her ankle at 2-2.

Bueno was gamely trying to finish the match, but she was hobbled by the ankle sprain and then started to cramp in the other leg. From Game, Set, and Glory, A History of the Australian Championships

Quote:
With Bueno serving at 15-15 in the eigth game, the Brazilian star collapsed on the basleline. The huge gallery sat stunned as she writhed in agony on the turf, clutching her left leg.Stunf to their senses, a few specatators cried "help her, help her" as a tentative Smith made the first move.
Bueno was left to writhe on the court because the second anyone came to her aid she would be defaulted. Margaret Smith, Harry Hopman, and another Aussie official were able to remove Bueno's shoe and rub out some of the cramp after 5 minutes, but she was forced to retire.

Last edited by Rollo : Jan 31st, 2010 at 03:49 AM.
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Old Jan 31st, 2010, 03:29 AM   #15
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Re: Why do people forget about Margaret Court's 24 Slam titles, and Helen Will's 19?

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Hello Davgis


Maria didn't have much of a choice. She was cramping under the intense Aussie sun. There was no nice umbrella, injury timeouts, trainers,or the other comforts today's players have.

Bueno was gamely trying to finish the match when she collapsed on the court.
Oh, I didn't know she collapsed. I heard someone once say that she was embarrassed to lose to the youngster Margaret. I stand corrected.
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