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Old Oct 5th, 2009, 11:53 PM   #1
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Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

I always wanted to know who would win this battle. Evert-Lloyd was considered the more fragile of the two but Evert of 1977 wasn't too hot either. I'll take the 1981-1982, Evert-Lloyd or the ones who loss to Martina through the mid-80.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 09:11 AM   #2
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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I always wanted to know who would win this battle. Evert-Lloyd was considered the more fragile of the two but Evert of 1977 wasn't too hot either. I'll take the 1981-1982, Evert-Lloyd or the ones who loss to Martina through the mid-80.
I am not sure, I think that the Evert of 84-86 was the best to be honest Trivfun. The problem for her was that she had Navratilova at her rampaging best round this period. I also feel that the Evert of 77 was better than the Evert Lloyd of 79 and actually 80 in a way.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 09:42 AM   #3
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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I am not sure, I think that the Evert of 84-86 was the best to be honest Trivfun. The problem for her was that she had Navratilova at her rampaging best round this period. I also feel that the Evert of 77 was better than the Evert Lloyd of 79 and actually 80 in a way.
That is a tough one because the Evert-Lloyd of 1979 had won the French and in 1980 both French and U.S. The 1977, won only the U.S. but was restricted to go to the French which she would have won. I do agree the 1977 was a little bit better than 1979which to me was probably her worst her but I'm not sure about 1980. That is still up in the air to me.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 09:52 AM   #4
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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That is a tough one because the Evert-Lloyd of 1979 had won the French and in 1980 both French and U.S. The 1977, won only the U.S. but was restricted to go to the French which she would have won. I do agree the 1977 was a little bit better than 1979which to me was probably her worst her but I'm not sure about 1980. That is still up in the air to me.
Yes it is not clear. But for me she did not really play and bad matches in 77. I mean I know that she was hammered by Wade at Wimbledon but to me that was fate and almost out of her hands. She did win the VS finals and the end of year Colgate Series Event. These two events of course did fulfill the surrogate role of a GS title and at that time were far more highly competitive than the French or Australian Opens>
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 02:37 PM   #5
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

chris in 1975 & 76 was pretty much the best as far as I can tell, though she was so streamlined and in the zone circa 1981, she could play pretty brutally. I dont count graphite racquets doing the work for players as a bump up in their playing level. Martina's game changed when she went to graphite dominating players who were often playing with wood. Chris had to go there as well to match her, but her focus was certainly not as strong in her 30s as when she was 22, and the creativity she displayed with the touch and feel of the wood racquet was armegeddon compared to any time in her graphite years. Sorry, there is just nothing interesting to me about power tennis; I prefer talent and intelligence.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 04:59 PM   #6
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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chris in 1975 & 76 was pretty much the best as far as I can tell, though she was so streamlined and in the zone circa 1981, she could play pretty brutally. I dont count graphite racquets doing the work for players as a bump up in their playing level. Martina's game changed when she went to graphite dominating players who were often playing with wood. Chris had to go there as well to match her, but her focus was certainly not as strong in her 30s as when she was 22, and the creativity she displayed with the touch and feel of the wood racquet was armegeddon compared to any time in her graphite years. Sorry, there is just nothing interesting to me about power tennis; I prefer talent and intelligence.
Daze. I so agree. And watching Evert in the 75 and 76 period was a real thrill. What unique and clever placements of the ball. Beautiful.And as you say the mental strength was incredible. Lets go for the Evert of 76 as the best.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 05:02 PM   #7
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

In 1977 Evert only lost 4 matches(twice to Wade and once each to Navratilova & Fromholtz).A chunk of the season was given over to WTT (where she lost sets including a 6-0 loss to Wade).But by 1977 Goolagong was off the circuit having her first child,Navratilova had not reached her best and a returning King was good but far enough past her best not to challenge Evert at all.In 77 Chrissie definitely ruled the roost.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 05:07 PM   #8
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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In 1977 Evert only lost 4 matches(twice to Wade and once each to Navratilova & Fromholtz).A chunk of the season was given over to WTT (where she lost sets including a 6-0 loss to Wade).But by 1977 Goolagong was off the circuit having her first child,Navratilova had not reached her best and a returning King was good but far enough past her best not to challenge Evert at all.In 77 Chrissie definitely ruled the roost.
That is very true. It is a pity that she did not play the French Open as that would have really made the season dominant. That year there were only a few players who challenged her effectively- Wade, Navratilova, Barker and Fromholtz. Mind you Greer Stevens did give her a really tough match in the last 16 at Wimbledon.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 05:51 PM   #9
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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Originally Posted by iainmac View Post
I am not sure, I think that the Evert of 84-86 was the best to be honest Trivfun. The problem for her was that she had Navratilova at her rampaging best round this period. I also feel that the Evert of 77 was better than the Evert Lloyd of 79 and actually 80 in a way.
It's all relative of course. If you consider that she was never out of the top four for 18 years it's clear that even her worst was still pretty magnificent.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 10:23 PM   #10
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

yes, it's almost like two different chrissie's! the wood racquet chris and the graphite one. both have their good and bad to them.

chrissie wood: all about placement and strategy! the drop shot, the sidespin forehand, the lob and so on.

chrissie graphite: harder hitting, hitting the ball more on the rise,along with her beefed up strength and conditioning with this graphite racket had a better all court game and even hit the ball differently meaning not just flat and the occassional sidespin, but with topspin as well. still used strategy and guile, but the dropshot and the subtle change of pace weren's as noticeable anymore, she was contending with harder hitting better athletes and had to go toe to toe with them in power and be confident she was more accurate and steadier then them still and when she has to use placement to defeat them

to the non avid tennis watcher i would think chrissie with wood was/would have been considered boring to watch not knowing the intricate web she produced with her ground game that ran the women into the ground.

i do think the graphite wielding evert would beat the wood racket one, only because chrissie said it herself that during her 1984 to 86 years she was playing the best tennis of her life and she even said during her waning last years that she was a much better player when she was number 3 and 4 in the world then she ever was when she was number one throughout the mid to late 70's.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 10:54 PM   #11
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

The graphite helped the other players too, especially on clay. Playing with wood, I feel that there is no way that Martina could EVER have beaten Chris on clay. But at least graphite allowed her to basically outbash Evert, which she did, I think three times, in 1983, 1984 and 1987. Although even with graphite, Chris of course beat Martina more times on clay (I can think of the two FO and two Houstons for a start).
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 11:42 PM   #12
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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i do think the graphite wielding evert would beat the wood racket one, only because chrissie said it herself that during her 1984 to 86 years she was playing the best tennis of her life and she even said during her waning last years that she was a much better player when she was number 3 and 4 in the world then she ever was when she was number one throughout the mid to late 70's.
i think that stage in her career was about convincing herself she was improving, and measuring her 'development' on getting closer in the score to navratilova. it is easy in the throws of that to believe what the results are telling you. but it was interesting when she beat seles in 89 how she mentioned she hadnt concentrated like that in 10 years, as she got to see first hand the difference between what she was used to versus what came into her and revealed more closely what she really had been in the past, much like a tap on the shoulder that says 'THIS is what you were like." i think it is biologically impossible for chris to have been a better player from a mental perspective at that stage in her career as when she was younger. but you DO make more mistakes with wood, and seem to hit longer and more effortlessly with graphite. but her game was much more uni-dimensional with the graphite.

i dont even really think she was a better volleyer or more all court. she DID have better touch at net, thats true - but she lost more points employing that 'touch' volley that almost everyone could get to, than when she used to smack those volleys away. watch her with wood in the 81 aussie final, and you'll be hard pressed to say she didnt have the same all court game then with superior volleying.

chris also would have some trouble measuring the weight of all the work she put in to be in shape, which she didnt have the advantage of when she was younger. that fitness gets inside your head as well and makes you feel on top of the world and that you are generally better.

this really is one of those areas where comparing eras gets so tricky because it was not chris' fault that her younger years dont enjoy the benefits of the fitness training. it was just a cultural fact prior to a 'revolution' really in sports!! but i dont think fitness was as important to her game as the mental fitness, in any case.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 11:46 PM   #13
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

i have to personally respectfully disagree with you sumarokov-elston. chrissie with wood in my opinion COULD NOT BEAT martina wielding graphite on clay.

back in the day chrissie with wood and martina with wood, chrissie could outsteady martina and win that way.however, you forget to take into account during this period say 1975 to 1982, this was a martina who was nowhere near the physical, emotional and psychological shape she would soon become.

by the time martina became what she became her groundstrokes were better her conditioning was better and her tactics were better.all by light years, so she could parry and play with chrissie from the baseline and be just as steady as chrissie and when the time came could also attack chrissie.

remember chrissie got soundly thrashed 2 times in early 1984 until she had that breakthrough in the first set at wimby and then later the 3 setter at the u.s. open, this was a matter of gaining confidence not only in herself, but using a graphite racket.

back in the day when chrissie was on her incredible 1973-1979 win streak on clay, using wood like everyone else, she could out place, out think everyone, but then the shift of everyone to graphite, and everyone hitting harder and becoming more athletic and conditioned everyone became in the wake of martina, chrissie couldn't just get the ball back, and outlast everyone else, like she could when she and everyone else used wood. the times had changed and chrissie had to change with it.

chrissie staying with wood against a graphite wielding martina? um, yes, still consistent, but her shots wouldn't have the sting they needed, nor the ability to mix up the spin like they could with graphite, and with the super conditioned and better footwork and expert technical strategy of a 1983 beyond martina, martina would have just waited her out, or bashed her way past wood wielding chrissie, the
effect wouldn't have been as noticeable or devasting to chrissie if this had occured on a grass court or indoor court, but nevertheless it would have happened, similar to martina defeating chrissie easily 1 and 3 at the 1983 u.s. open with martina using graphite, chrissie using wood and on a fair surface like hard court.
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Old Oct 6th, 2009, 11:54 PM   #14
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

daze11, i hear your point on the volleying aspect of chrissie (i always thought she was underrated in this aspect, just because she didn't look like a super athlete at the net ala king, martina, wade, goolagong. however,you have to admit she was stronger, faster, more athletic in her graphite wielding days even though she was 30 and her early 30's (1984 to 86) than she was in 1981, just watch the 84 u.s. open and the difference from that match from that 81 aussie match.

the 84 open, chrissie looked and acted and played like a real athlete especially rushing the net and in the forecourt. she acted and played more agressive and i do believe it was not just her better conditioning and strength but also the graphite racket. i truly cannot see chrissie playing this way in this 84 open against martina (that she should have won) playing with a old wood racket. i mean chrissie lost 13 times in a row to martina and i believe 9 of them or so was using wood ( the last 4 using graphite were the amelia island tourney, the french, wimby and this u.s. open match)
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Old Oct 7th, 2009, 12:08 AM   #15
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Re: Chris Evert vs. Chris Evert-Lloyd

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Originally Posted by laschutz View Post
yes, it's almost like two different chrissie's! the wood racquet chris and the graphite one. both have their good and bad to them.

chrissie wood: all about placement and strategy! the drop shot, the sidespin forehand, the lob and so on.

chrissie graphite: harder hitting, hitting the ball more on the rise,along with her beefed up strength and conditioning with this graphite racket had a better all court game and even hit the ball differently meaning not just flat and the occassional sidespin, but with topspin as well. still used strategy and guile, but the dropshot and the subtle change of pace weren's as noticeable anymore, she was contending with harder hitting better athletes and had to go toe to toe with them in power and be confident she was more accurate and steadier then them still and when she has to use placement to defeat them

to the non avid tennis watcher i would think chrissie with wood was/would have been considered boring to watch not knowing the intricate web she produced with her ground game that ran the women into the ground.

i do think the graphite wielding evert would beat the wood racket one, only because chrissie said it herself that during her 1984 to 86 years she was playing the best tennis of her life and she even said during her waning last years that she was a much better player when she was number 3 and 4 in the world then she ever was when she was number one throughout the mid to late 70's.
She probably feels that way because she feels she was a better athlete. That may be true, but although it's of course a big help - a better athlete by itself doesn't necessarily always make for a better player. It's just one - albeit a very important element. I think it's impossible to say if mid-80's Chrissie was better than mid-70's Chrissie. With graphite the mid-80's version would probably have beaten the mid-70's version because the 'better athlete' element would have been an important one at a time when the game was getting faster and more physical. Whether that element would have been the deciding factor if the two Chrissie's would have played each other with wood is a different matter. Somehow I doubt it.

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