Ana's serve, then and now - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jul 11th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #1
country flag RU90
Senior Member
 
RU90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,629
RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of
Ana's serve, then and now

Remember when Ana used to have one of the best serves in the game?

WHEN IVANOVIC SERVES, YOU BETTER DUCK
By PETER BODO
Published: June 1, 2008



Quote:
Last June, the ascendant Serbian tennis player Ana Ivanovic hit a serve 124.9 miles per hour, one of the most powerful blasts ever by a woman. And this was after injuries and maturity had convinced her that, when it comes to serving, it’s about more than how hard you hit the ball. The 20-year-old Ivanovic has shot up to No. 2 in the world rankings in part because she has transformed her serve into a multifaceted stroke that overwhelms opponents with its unpredictable speed and spin. Here, a closer look at one of the most dangerous shots on the women’s tour.

BIGGER IS BETTER

Like all powerful servers, Ivanovic is tall: 6-foot-1. “Taller means a greater margin for clearing the net, and longer levers [arms] mean that endpoint velocity is increased,” says Bruce Elliott, the head of the School of Sports Science, Exercise and Health at the University of Western Australia, who has studied the serve extensively. Her height also allows her to hit a flat serve with less spin and, therefore, get better service speed than her smaller rivals. Ivanovic has developed an unusually good balance of speed, spin and consistency, enabling her to control points and neutralize the major weakness of taller players: “Mobility is not as much of a weapon for Ana as for smaller girls,” says her coach, Sven Groeneveld, “so you look to compensate for that by making your serve a weapon.”

REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT

“The key to great serving is consistency,” says Brenda Schultz-McCarthy, who owns the women’s serve-speed record of 130 m.p.h. “The minute you have to adjust your motion, you lose speed as well as placement.” Ivanovic is a model of consistency. Schultz-McCarthy likes the way Ivanovic’s serve pulls her feet off the ground: “That tells you she’s had a good knee bend and great [arm] extension.” Ivanovic’s delivery has a simplicity common to all great servers, and Groeneveld also stresses the importance of allowing her stroke to flow naturally. When practicing, Ivanovic often hits her serve while walking — an exercise, Groeneveld says, that helps maintain a fluid arm motion.

BEND, DON’T BREAK

Great servers share three biomechanical features, according to Bruce Elliott: “Leg-drive, high levels of internal rotation at the shoulder and large wrist flexion.” And Ivanovic, among other genetic assets, has an unusually flexible rotator cuff. “She’s actually too flexible in that area,” says Scott Byrnes, a physiologist who travels at her side full time. “She tends to get unnatural movements in that area, resulting in irritating tears in the small muscles. We’ve had to do a lot of work on stability there.” Of course, that flexible rotator cuff also enables her to do more with her serve, like make last-moment directional changes or adjust her swing to create the various spins a server relies on.

THE POWER OF DECEPTION

Ivanovic also has a strong, flexible wrist, which helps her to disguise what type of serve is coming. Generally, the three main serves — the hard, flat one; the slice, which, for a right-hander, lands and moves left; and the kicker, which veers right — require slightly different tosses, all easily read by an experienced opponent. But Ivanovic has learned to hit these serves with minimal changes in her stance or toss. “Ana used to line up more parallel with the base line, which made it easier for opponents to read her,” Groeneveld says. “It’s harder now, because she also tosses more into the court, and that also means that when she lands after the serve she’s in a better position to deal with the return.”

THE LONG VIEW

Because Ivanovic is still young, her coaches haven’t tapped into the power workouts yet. “So far, we’ve just been thinking about longevity and maintenance,” Byrnes says. Her training includes working with cable weights and bands, frequent ice baths to rehabilitate muscles and keeping her core strong. Groeneveld also continues to fine-tune her mechanics in the quest for the effortless big serve. But Ivanovic is getting itchy. “I would prefer if I could hit some more flat serves, but I need to be patient,” she says. Schultz-McCarthy thinks the patience will pay off. “A big server gets seduced by the chance to hit aces,” she says. “A great server knows there’s more to it.”
ARTICLE: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/sp...e/601gift.html

VIDEO: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...C_GRAPHIC.html


So what happened? Is it mental or physical change (or both)? Notice in the article, it mentions Ana's career-fastest serve at 124.9 mph (201 kph). I don't see Ana hitting serves anywhere near that speed for a long time now. But it's not just speed. We all know how much she struggles with her toss and how "bad serving days" are now the norm. At this year's French Open, Chris Evert says her toss is lower and motion is quicker than it was before. I've heard others say she has a higher ball toss now. It's hard to say without a side-by-side comparison, but what do you think are the main reasons for the loss of effectiveness of Ana's serve?
__________________
~Bouchard ~Ivanovic ~Pennetta ~Wozniacki ~Keys ~Pliskova ~Watson ~Hercog ~Bencic ~Cetkovska ~Vekic ~Goerges ~Kovinic ~Konjuh ~Barty ~Hesse ~Chirico
RU90 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Jul 11th, 2013, 07:22 PM   #2
country flag Vasa
Senior Member
 
Vasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 375
Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all Vasa is a name known to all
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Don't even talk about this...
Vasa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 11th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #3
Fighteranovic
Senior Member
 
Fighteranovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Anapolis
Posts: 11,954
Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Let's forget this, and pretend like this never happened, it will be easier to us
__________________
Ana Ivanovic ♥

Sabine Lisicki ♦ Maria Sharapova ♦ Petra Kvitova
Jelena Jankovic ♦ Venus Williams

Fighteranovic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 12th, 2013, 01:21 AM   #4
country flag gaviotabr
Senior Member
 
gaviotabr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,489
gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute gaviotabr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

That's depressing..
__________________
Mental Strength is an underrated ability, it sets champions apart

Making mistakes is human, repeating them is dumb.

What I write is my opinion, and my opinion only.
gaviotabr is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 1st, 2013, 04:37 AM   #5
country flag RU90
Senior Member
 
RU90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,629
RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Ana's fastest serve for this U.S. Open is 110 mph.
__________________
~Bouchard ~Ivanovic ~Pennetta ~Wozniacki ~Keys ~Pliskova ~Watson ~Hercog ~Bencic ~Cetkovska ~Vekic ~Goerges ~Kovinic ~Konjuh ~Barty ~Hesse ~Chirico
RU90 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 1st, 2013, 05:51 AM   #6
country flag The 2nd Law
Senior Member
 
The 2nd Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Panic Station
Posts: 5,957
The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute The 2nd Law has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by RU90 View Post
Ana's fastest serve for this U.S. Open is 110 mph.
McHale's was 111 today


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
__________________
Proud supporter of the VIP Serbian Scrub & the Barking Czech GOAT
The 2nd Law is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12th, 2013, 10:40 AM   #7
country flag Pops Maellard
Quiche
 
Pops Maellard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 41,282
Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute Pops Maellard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Ana still has a good enough first serve that she'll win the vast majority of points when it goes in. Percentage has been an issue for a while.
__________________
Maria Venus
ANA
Petra
Pops Maellard is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 14th, 2013, 01:23 AM   #8
country flag RU90
Senior Member
 
RU90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,629
RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops Maellard View Post
Ana still has a good enough first serve that she'll win the vast majority of points when it goes in. Percentage has been an issue for a while.
Yeah, the consistency of first serve is abysmal because of the toss.
__________________
~Bouchard ~Ivanovic ~Pennetta ~Wozniacki ~Keys ~Pliskova ~Watson ~Hercog ~Bencic ~Cetkovska ~Vekic ~Goerges ~Kovinic ~Konjuh ~Barty ~Hesse ~Chirico
RU90 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 14th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #9
country flag RU90
Senior Member
 
RU90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,629
RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of RU90 has much to be proud of
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Found this video of Ivanovic vs. Jankovic, Tokyo 2007



Ana is so different in many ways.

Does the serve look different to you?
__________________
~Bouchard ~Ivanovic ~Pennetta ~Wozniacki ~Keys ~Pliskova ~Watson ~Hercog ~Bencic ~Cetkovska ~Vekic ~Goerges ~Kovinic ~Konjuh ~Barty ~Hesse ~Chirico
RU90 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #10
country flag venusinfurs
Fan of beautiful games
 
venusinfurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,501
venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Is it anything to do with her weight loss? Loss of muscle mass = loss of power.

Her forehand used to be one of the best in the game, now its just very good...

Has her ball toss always been this bad?
__________________
Simona Halep (2014 French Open Runner-up) - Petra Kvitova (2011/2014 Wimbledon Champion)
venusinfurs is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19th, 2013, 03:25 PM   #11
Fighteranovic
Senior Member
 
Fighteranovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Anapolis
Posts: 11,954
Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by venusinfurs View Post
Is it anything to do with her weight loss? Loss of muscle mass = loss of power.

Her forehand used to be one of the best in the game, now its just very good...

Has her ball toss always been this bad?
No, her ball toss hasn't been this bad, everything has started in summer/fall of 2008, IIRC, when the guys from Adidas training team tried to fix something which hasn't been broken and training with different-weighted balls to make her serve more unpredictable, and Ana lost confident in her serve because of new way of training, maybe this is not the main reason, but I suspect it was...

And yes, I agree that she lost power when she started losing on weight, but her FH is still one on the Tour IMO.
__________________
Ana Ivanovic ♥

Sabine Lisicki ♦ Maria Sharapova ♦ Petra Kvitova
Jelena Jankovic ♦ Venus Williams


Last edited by Fighteranovic : Nov 19th, 2013 at 03:32 PM.
Fighteranovic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19th, 2013, 08:35 PM   #12
country flag Nalby fan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 621
Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjdeAna! View Post
No, her ball toss hasn't been this bad, everything has started in summer/fall of 2008, IIRC, when the guys from Adidas training team tried to fix something which hasn't been broken and training with different-weighted balls to make her serve more unpredictable, and Ana lost confident in her serve because of new way of training, maybe this is not the main reason, but I suspect it was...

And yes, I agree that she lost power when she started losing on weight, but her FH is still one on the Tour IMO.
Wasn't there a bad thumb injury after Wimbledon 2008,or am I remembering things incorrectly?

I remember her losing the toss badly against Henin in the RG final. Put it down to nerves but perhaps there was a deeper problem?
Nalby fan is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #13
Fighteranovic
Senior Member
 
Fighteranovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Anapolis
Posts: 11,954
Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute Fighteranovic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalby fan View Post
Wasn't there a bad thumb injury after Wimbledon 2008,or am I remembering things incorrectly?

I remember her losing the toss badly against Henin in the RG final. Put it down to nerves but perhaps there was a deeper problem?
Yes, you're right, everything has started after that thumb injury and withdrawal from the Olympics, also those trainings as I wrote in my 1st post...
That video of her training was really scary, Ana was lost in space while she was throwing different-weighted balls in the air, I still can't forget 'em
__________________
Ana Ivanovic ♥

Sabine Lisicki ♦ Maria Sharapova ♦ Petra Kvitova
Jelena Jankovic ♦ Venus Williams

Fighteranovic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19th, 2013, 10:15 PM   #14
country flag Nalby fan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 621
Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold Nalby fan is a splendid one to behold
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjdeAna! View Post
Yes, you're right, everything has started after that thumb injury and withdrawal from the Olympics, also those trainings as I wrote in my 1st post...
That video of her training was really scary, Ana was lost in space while she was throwing different-weighted balls in the air, I still can't forget 'em
Groeneveld really needed fired for that cock-up. I never understood why it was so important to learn a different toss,surely the point was to be able to hit different serves off the same toss. It's what Sampras did.
Nalby fan is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20th, 2013, 11:40 AM   #15
country flag venusinfurs
Fan of beautiful games
 
venusinfurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,501
venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of venusinfurs has much to be proud of
Re: Ana's serve, then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by RU90 View Post
Found this video of Ivanovic vs. Jankovic, Tokyo 2007



Ana is so different in many ways.

Does the serve look different to you?


Are you sure thats Ana, maybe its someone who just looks like her?
__________________
Simona Halep (2014 French Open Runner-up) - Petra Kvitova (2011/2014 Wimbledon Champion)
venusinfurs is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios