Ladies of the Court - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jan 11th, 2002, 04:07 AM   #1
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,927
BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold
Ladies of the Court

I am about half-way through this book, which follows the circuit through 1991. A couple of things stand out.

1. they are extremely mean to Sabatini, and imply, not too subtley, that she is stupid and has no personality

2. it is amazing the shift in public opinion regarding Seles. Seles is probably one of the most universally admired athletes because of the stabbing, and the way she has conducted herself since. But when she was new and dominating, she was universally loathed by both the players and press. Like she recently said, she was only young! Who doesn't want to be an actress or model when they are that age!(I've got to say that I am a bit of a hypocrite. I didn't warm to her back then.......)

3. I am reminded of some of my favs of that time:

Kathy Rinaldi
Carling Bassett
Catarina Linqvist
Lisa Bonder
Andrea Temesavari
Helen Kelesi

Is Anna K going to be added to the list of beauties who only dipped their toes into the top 10, only to fall away?

What do other people think of this book?

I am also DYING to get my hands on a copy of Pam Shriver's Passing Shots.......
BCP is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Jan 11th, 2002, 07:45 AM   #2
country flag Philbo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sydney
Posts: 6,194
Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute
That book, and the author are both trash. Thats my opinion of it.

Passing SHots by Pam Shriver, is the best tennis related book Ive read besides Navratilovas autobiography...

Passing SHots is insightful, interesting, and goddam FUNNY!!!!
Philbo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 07:57 AM   #3
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,927
BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold
I'm not that impressed with the book myself. It's only one person's view of the circuit, and I don't mind a controversial read now and then. It's not very well written however.

I'll keep my eye out on the net and second hand book shots for Passing Shots. Everyone who has read it says that it is great.....
BCP is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 08:14 AM   #4
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,827
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
Passing Shots is a lot better And Czechfan is right about Ladies being trashy, but I'll say one thing for Menshaw-he was about the ONLY writer who has dared to confront 2 of the "dirty little secrets" of the women's tour, which are:

1. The rampant pattern of mental, physical, and in the case of
coaches, sexual abuse abuse of these young women by
coaches and parents, while tennis associations and the WTA
either ignore it or actually facilitate the abuse.

2. The women's game is controlled by men. With rare exceptions,
those who make the important decisions off the court are
men. Even within their families, most of these girls are
dominated by fathers or father figures.


Other books on women's tennis shy away from issues which don't promote the tour, which is why even if "Ladies" is uncomfortable reading, I think the issues it brings up are still with the tour today.
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 08:21 AM   #5
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,927
BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold
You are right Rollo. There is a lot that goes on on the circuit which is not spoken about, and that the general public aren't really aware of. A lot of those issues sure are pertinent today. Ladies is not very well written, but when you see the tour from a lot of different perpectives (even though you might not like what you read), you get a better sense of the tour, and you also see how a single event can be interpretted in many different ways...

I imagine the circuit is very political and cliquey, and can be quite daunting for newcomers.......
BCP is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 08:42 AM   #6
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,827
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
You were a Temesvari fan? Me too! Ahh, now if there had been an internet when she came on the scene!....... LOL.

BTW, Pam has WONDERFUL things to say about Carling in "Passing Shots". Its funny too,call she calls Gaby "that little twerp" and a "14 year-old pipsquek" who beats her in the Family Circle Cup, Gaby's first big TV final. Pammy was never at a loss for words. With any luck she's doing commentary for the Aussie Open.
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 08:51 AM   #7
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,927
BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold
I was a Temesavari fan, more for the fact that a lot of the girls disliked her because she was pretty. I never actually got to see her play (I don't think she can to Australia often). I was more a Kathy Rinaldi fan, and a Lisa Bonder fan. I also like Carling.

My real favs were Chris and Hana, and I also loved Martina (execpt when she beat Chris 13 times in a row ). If there was an internet then I would have been on it 24/7 going "Chris this...and Hana That...", driving everyone nuts.

I was never really into Sabatini. I thought her game was a big yawn, but I tjhought that the book was mean to her anyway.

I think that Pam is hysterical......... You are all making me want Passing Shots even more badly!
BCP is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 09:15 AM   #8
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,827
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
Hana was one of my faves too. I went wild when she smacked a dramatic backhand winner up the line in the 1980 Us Open to take the first set vs. Chris. The crowd went nuts too. Then Chrissie iced her 6-1 6-1 in the second and third.

Too many of the "80's ladies" were injured. Hana, Temesvari, hell everyone EXCEPT Martina and Chris had major injuries. Funny how Andrea NEVER went on court without makeup. no wonder most of the other ladies hated her!

I always rooted for Gaby because she reminded me a bit of Hana, just explosive and artistic on court. I kind of agreed with Menshaw on her personality, she never was a good interview or controversial like Hana or either Martina. She was VERY shy, sweet and bland-really sheltered by her family. By the time Menshaw was trying to interview her she was 14 going on 40, just worn out from all the grind of the circuit. What her family did to her was shameful IMO, playing poor Gaby into the ground. No wonder she retires so early.

Do you have a favorite Hana match? The Aussie was her best slam, so I guess you saw a lot of her
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 09:24 AM   #9
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,927
BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold
My favorite Hana match was the 1985 US open when she beat Martina. It made me stop being mad at her for beating Chris in the semi! The thing about being a Hana fan is that when she was on, you felt SOOOO good because when she off off, you felk so terrible. The player that reminds me the most of Hana is Natasha Zvereva. I wish she had been more successful in singles.

I read the Hana autobiography. It was great to she how she viewed things, and added perspective to the way that I saw things I really liked it when she apologised to Martina for the insulting (muscles) comment at the French in 1984 (?). You can really relate when Hana said that all parties were releived. I made me admire Martina even more for her kind heart.

I also wish that Andrea Jaegar played for longer. I was just starting to follow tennis when she got to the French final. I think I could have really dug her too
BCP is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 09:32 AM   #10
country flag Philbo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sydney
Posts: 6,194
Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute Philbo has a reputation beyond repute
This thread makes for good reading - welcome aboard Ball change!!


My fave Hana match is also the 85 US Open final - How couldnt it be???

5-0 lead in the 1st set, then 5all, then Hana goes walkabout for the 2nd set, and comes back to beat Martina in a HIGH quality match!!

Its another one that Martina coulda, shoulda woulda won, but alas, I have to admit Hana deserved it more.
Philbo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 09:41 AM   #11
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,927
BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold
Thanks for the welcome Czechfan.

I know that you are a BIG Martina fan. I loved Martina's biography. I wish that I had been old enough to see the classic eastbourne finals with Chris that went all the way in the 3rd. My heart broke as she described how she lost to Tracy Austin in the 81(?) US open final, but she felt that the crowd was finally rooting for her.

You will hate me, but the only time that I wish Martina had lost a Wimby final (except against Chris), was the last one she one against Zina. Imagine how great for Zina that would have been

I know that it was an incredible feat for Martina to win Wimbeldon at that age though.........

Didn't Hana beat Martina on the way to the Wimbeldon final in 81 in a great match?
BCP is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 09:47 AM   #12
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,827
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
Man was I yelling at the Tv during THAT match! It was the first time since Tracy Austin that anyone had managed to beat both Evert and Navratilova in the same event. It didn't happen again til Steffi Graf did it. Remember how Hana laid down on her back because she was so excited?

Another great Martina-Hana encounter was Amelia Island, 1984.
The press was all excited about Evert holding on and at least beating Martina on clay, but Martina killed Chris in the final. The REAL match was the semi, where both Czechs had to battle the clay and each other, diving after balls at net and falling down on the clay more than once.

I wish I could get my hands on Hana's book. It never came out here in the US. It was tough for two Czechs to play each other, especially because of all the politics involved. Funny how all 3 of the greatest Czechs(Martina, Hana and Lendl) came fro the Sparta tennis club in Prague. If I ever get to the Czech republic i want to go there and to Martina Navratilova's old house
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 09:54 AM   #13
louloubelle
Senior Member
 
louloubelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,713
louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future
Hana's book was a good read as well as her description of a French Open match just after Steffi Graf had beaten Navratilova in 86??. She played Graf in the qtrs and everyone was predicted Hana to get beaten. Reading between the lines it was like she was going to put the youngster in her place and she did just that, 26 76 61. And tho her US Open was the greatest match of her career, this Graf match typified Hana when her pride had been dented!!!

The ladies of the court was a great trashy read and a good insight into the tour during a successful time. For sure, Mewshaw really portrayed the likes of Gaby, Seles, Capriati and esp Sanchez-Vicario in a bad light. He was less harsh on the lower ranked players like Rinaldi, Andrea.... even to a point of showing sympathy of their plights. However it seemed the top players were criticsed for their success and the fact that they didn't have the poise in the public light that the more older and experienced top players did at the time.
__________________
There's more to life than just being happy.
louloubelle is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 09:54 AM   #14
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,927
BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold BCP is a splendid one to behold
It was really funny that I read Martina, and Hana's biographies back to back. Even though from the outside, people may think that they were really similar, they were soo different. hana was afr from well to do, but she seemed to be more privileged than Martina. By the time Hana joined Sparta, martina was a legend there, not only for her tennis, but more for her audaciity in defying the authorities. Martina opened the way for Hana and the others that followed.

One of the resons why I love Hana is she is sooo frank, sometimes even to the points of rudeness. She did not have a good relationship with Helena sukova, and one of the passages in the book in which she spilled out her real opinion of Helena made me roll on the floor laughing..........(BTW I have nothing against Helena)

The biggest difference that I could see was that Martina struggled with the outside world, and Hana struggled with herself
BCP is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11th, 2002, 10:27 AM   #15
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,827
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
What a fun thread! Hi louluobelle I REALLY want to read the Hana book now ballchange. What other dirt did Hana dish out!
Did Hana have to put up with a lot from Helena's mother Vera?
While Martina opened doors, she herself owes a bit to Vera, the first top ten Czech female. Vera was a Wimbledon finalist in 1962, and she and Helena are a rare case of mother-daughter slam finalists. Vera cooperated with the communists in exchange for ruling the roost in Czechoslovakia as far as women's tennis. Martina's defection and Hana's "backdoor" defection must have hurt her.

BTW, what was the story with Hana's Aussie husband? Was he a real love or just a way out for Hana? I got a good laugh out of reports she played ping-pong(without her husband) right after the wedding.

Another funny Hana moment was her running into the the bathroom at the Us Open to avoid a pesky reporter after getting upset. For years afterward that toilet was known as "hana's loo-loo".

Oh yea, and then there was Hana giving a linesman the middle finger(on Tv!) during the 1981 Canadian Open.

Always unpredictable-how i miss Hana!
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios