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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #3856
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To our Danish/Polish members, can we make a small request? Could you please share the discussion going on between Caro and her Dad when they are having the Coaching Time during a match? I wish I could understand what her Dad is saying and her response too. The word I can only understand is “Karolina” :-)
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 05:58 PM   #3857
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Caroline's victorious run in Luxembourg: http://www.sportsgazette.co.uk/secti...aid=859&sid=16

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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 06:44 PM   #3858
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The No.1-seeded Wozniacki dropped her first two service games of the match but went on cruise control from there, winning seven games in a row to build a 62 10 lead.
http://www.wtatennis.com/news/articl...-in-luxembourg

By that logic, Caro should have gone down 0-2 after serving in BOTH games, and then won the next 7 games!?

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It's nice that Caro has finally realized some of those things things many of us have been talking about for years. But frankly I'm surprised she had to be 23 yo before she'd realize that to really improve her game, she can't just work on her strong sides but must also work hard on improving the things she's not so good at!?
In hindsight I guess it's been a hindrance to her developement as a player that she became so succesful so early. When you become no. 1 in the world at age 20, it's easy to start thinking that all you need to do is go on doing the same things that brought you to the top. If more opponents had figured out how to break down her defense when she was 19 yo and she had spent 2010-11 hovering around the no. 10 spot instead of doing it in 2012-13, then maybe she would have come to this epic realisation two years ago.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 06:55 PM   #3859
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Originally Posted by C. W. Fields View Post
The No.1-seeded Wozniacki dropped her first two service games of the match but went on cruise control from there, winning seven games in a row to build a 62 10 lead.
http://www.wtatennis.com/news/articl...-in-luxembourg

By that logic, Caro should have gone down 0-2 after serving in BOTH games, and then won the next 7 games!?



It's nice that Caro has finally realized some of those things things many of us have been talking about for years. But frankly I'm surprised she had to be 23 yo before she'd realize that to really improve her game, she can't just work on her strong sides but must also work hard on improving the things she's not so good at!?
In hindsight I guess it's been a hindrance to her developement as a player that she became so succesful so early. When you become no. 1 in the world at age 20, it's easy to start thinking that all you need to do is go on doing the same things that brought you to the top. If more opponents had figured out how to break down her defense when she was 19 yo and she had spent 2010-11 hovering around the no. 10 spot instead of doing it in 2012-13, then maybe she would have come to this epic realisation two years ago.
I dont understand this at all. Caro changed her game when she was still #1. Around the time she met Rory. She started to make a lot of unforced forehand errors. You could see immediately the difference from her play at 2011 IW to 2011 Cincy/Rogers Cup.
She wasnt beaten down playing the game she played mid 2010-2011. She plays a different game now. A lot more chance taking on her forehand and approaching the net. And we still havent seen it work, besides at a few small events like this one

The way I remember it, Jimmie and I couldnt wait for the 9 months of hardcourt to start in summer 2011, and Caro started it off losing to Vinci & Mchale in straight sets. From there, she stopped being the player who was #1, but not because power players like Sharapova overpowered her. She was losing to myuch weaker players than Maria, besides 2011 USo, which gave me temporary hope she was only experimenting with wild forehands. But no, its part of her game now
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #3860
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I dont understand this at all. Caro changed her game when she was still #1. Around the time she met Rory. She started to make a lot of unforced forehand errors. You could see immediately the difference from her play at 2011 IW to 2011 Cincy/Rogers Cup.
She wasnt beaten down playing the game she played mid 2010-2011. She plays a different game now. A lot more chance taking on her forehand and approaching the net. And we still havent seen it work, besides at a few small events like this one

The way I remember it, Jimmie and I couldnt wait for the 9 months of hardcourt to start in summer 2011, and Caro started it off losing to Vinci & Mchale in straight sets. From there, she stopped being the player who was #1, but not because power players like Sharapova overpowered her. She was losing to myuch weaker players than Maria, besides 2011 USo, which gave me temporary hope she was only experimenting with wild forehands. But no, its part of her game now
Caro may have been experimenting with some things during the summer of 2011 after her disappointing losses at FO/Wimbledon where she was knocked out by hardhitters from outside the top 20 (Dani and Domi), but it's clear from what she's saying now that she wasn't working methodically at improving her weaker sides and really add things to her game, not until recently.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #3861
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I dont understand this at all. Caro changed her game when she was still #1. Around the time she met Rory. She started to make a lot of unforced forehand errors. You could see immediately the difference from her play at 2011 IW to 2011 Cincy/Rogers Cup.
She wasnt beaten down playing the game she played mid 2010-2011. She plays a different game now. A lot more chance taking on her forehand and approaching the net. And we still havent seen it work, besides at a few small events like this one

The way I remember it, Jimmie and I couldnt wait for the 9 months of hardcourt to start in summer 2011, and Caro started it off losing to Vinci & Mchale in straight sets. From there, she stopped being the player who was #1, but not because power players like Sharapova overpowered her. She was losing to myuch weaker players than Maria, besides 2011 USo, which gave me temporary hope she was only experimenting with wild forehands. But no, its part of her game now
I think she's going about it the right way now. In the second half of 2011 she was clearly uncomfortable with what she was trying to do, and she did it with the wrong racquet at that. Now she's also more agressive than she was at her peak, but she picks her spots to go for it much better. Her serve (at least her first serve) has improved a bit, she attacks second serves from opponents more regularly to decent effect instead of just putting the ball back into play, she's better at putting away midcourt balls and her net game has improved a lot. It's not yet what I (and more importantly she herself) imagine that the end product will be, but she's going slowly but surely in the right direction imo. The ideal Caro is a mix of how she was at her 2009-2011 peak and this new controlled "sensible" aggression. She didn't get the balance right at her first attempt (to say the least), but she's getting closer to it now.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 07:52 PM   #3862
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I think she's going about it the right way now. In the second half of 2011 she was clearly uncomfortable with what she was trying to do, and she did it with the wrong racquet at that. Now she's also more agressive than she was at her peak, but she picks her spots to go for it much better. Her serve (at least her first serve) has improved a bit, she attacks second serves from opponents more regularly to decent effect instead of just putting the ball back into play, she's better at putting away midcourt balls and her net game has improved a lot. It's not yet what I (and more importantly she herself) imagine that the end product will be, but she's going slowly but surely in the right direction imo. The ideal Caro is a mix of how she was at her 2009-2011 peak and this new controlled "sensible" aggression. She didn't get the balance right at her first attempt (to say the least), but she's getting closer to it now.
I hope so, but this week is not a good indicater. January will tell a lot more.
Sofia would tell a lot more if she plays it. I thought Lisicki didnt play well, and Beck in a final is an Intl. Know a lot more about if she's doing better when she's in a more serious field
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #3863
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I hope so, but this week is not a good indicater. January will tell a lot more.
Sofia would tell a lot more if she plays it. I thought Lisicki didnt play well, and Beck in a final is an Intl. Know a lot more about if she's doing better when she's in a more serious field
Yes, but if she doesn't plan on changing anything about her game, or rather adding to it there's no point in changing coaches either. She was a great, probably even the best defensive player in the world in 2009-2011 with her dad as a coach. So clearly their parnership worked perfectly for what she was trying to do at that time. The only reason I can see for getting a new coach is if she would try to add to that. That doesn't mean that she has to completely change her game because I agree that a player should always play to his/her strenghts, but it can't hurt to have more options if there's a need for them during a match.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 08:41 PM   #3864
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Yes, but if she doesn't plan on changing anything about her game, or rather adding to it there's no point in changing coaches either. She was a great, probably even the best defensive player in the world in 2009-2011 with her dad as a coach. So clearly their parnership worked perfectly for what she was trying to do at that time. The only reason I can see for getting a new coach is if she would try to add to that. That doesn't mean that she has to completely change her game because I agree that a player should always play to his/her strenghts, but it can't hurt to have more options if there's a need for them during a match.
Caro has to improve her serve. That was always the biggest problem. I think thats something she cant take lightly.
As far as this style of play, I know you cant rush the net behind mediocre approach shots. I dont care what one or 2 points looked like at an Intl. Much better volleyers than Caro know they have to pick their spots to approach carefully, or you're just hoping your opponent sees you come in and chokes. That wont win premiers. I want to see her go thru a decent draw with this style
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #3865
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Yes, but if she doesn't plan on changing anything about her game, or rather adding to it there's no point in changing coaches either. She was a great, probably even the best defensive player in the world in 2009-2011 with her dad as a coach. So clearly their parnership worked perfectly for what she was trying to do at that time. The only reason I can see for getting a new coach is if she would try to add to that. That doesn't mean that she has to completely change her game because I agree that a player should always play to his/her strenghts, but it can't hurt to have more options if there's a need for them during a match.
I think that changing of her game was a big mistake when she was at her peak. Had she stayed true to what she was good at 2012-2013 could have been better. Having said that I think that it's impossible for a player to always play the same way and some changes will always be necessary to be made. HOWEVER,I think that if changes are applied not because of a real need then the result won't be a success but failure. Just like in Caro's case. I think that even her father said that the changes they'd applied left her confused about what she should do on the court. And sometimes it was showing; her body language clearly indicated that she was no longer as confident in tight situations as before with her 'pusher' game.
I wish that if Caro applies changes to her game it's done for a reason and with more carefulness than before. I want to see her get back to the top instead of spiralling down the rankings due to 'experiments' that will only spoil her game.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #3866
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Caro has to improve her serve. That was always the biggest problem. I think thats something she cant take lightly.
As far as this style of play, I know you cant rush the net behind mediocre approach shots. I dont care what one or 2 points looked like at an Intl. Much better volleyers than Caro know they have to pick their spots to approach carefully, or you're just hoping your opponent sees you come in and chokes. That wont win premiers. I want to see her go thru a decent draw with this style
I agree with that. But since her ability to put away mid court balls is improving, so will those approach shots. They were always the main problem when it comes to Caroline's net game imo. There are not that many great volleyers in the womens game these days (or the mens for that matter). It's just that those that are successful at the net often get easy putaways because their approach shots are so good.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #3867
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I think that changing of her game was a big mistake when she was at her peak. Had she stayed true to what she was good at 2012-2013 could have been better. Having said that I think that it's impossible for a player to always play the same way and some changes will always be necessary to be made. HOWEVER,I think that if changes are applied not because of a real need then the result won't be a success but failure. Just like in Caro's case. I think that even her father said that the changes they'd applied left her confused about what she should do on the court. And sometimes it was showing; her body language clearly indicated that she was no longer as confident in tight situations as before with her 'pusher' game.
I wish that if Caro applies changes to her game it's done for a reason and with more carefulness than before. I want to see her get back to the top instead of spiralling down the rankings due to 'experiments' that will only spoil her game.
I agree. If 2012, 2013 are how the rest of her career plays out, her changing her game at a time when she was very tough to beat on hardcourt and just had her best clay season ever in 2011, I think we will look back at her changing her game as one of the craziest decisions in sports.
thats the way I look at it now. When you are that successful, you fine tune things, slowly improve aspects, like serve, without undermining the foundation of your game.
I watched a lot of this Intl and still dont think she's anywhere near YEC 2010 or IW 2011
But i'm hopeful she can get back there over time. Beating Beck and an off form Lisicki to me, still leaves a lot of questions.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #3868
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I agree. If 2012, 2013 are how the rest of her career plays out, her changing her game at a time when she was very tough to beat on hardcourt and just had her best clay season ever in 2011, I think we will look back at her changing her game as one of the craziest decisions in sports.
thats the way I look at it now. When you are that successful, you fine tune things, slowly improve aspects, like serve, without undermining the foundation of your game.
I watched a lot of this Intl and still dont think she's anywhere near YEC 2010 or IW 2011
But i'm hopeful she can get back there over time. Beating Beck and an off form Lisicki to me, still leaves a lot of questions.
Yes, but I agree with all that. I'm not advocating that she should change her game, only that she should try to add to it. There's nothing revolutionary in that - all players are doing that.
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Old Oct 20th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #3869
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Caro may have been experimenting with some things during the summer of 2011 after her disappointing losses at FO/Wimbledon where she was knocked out by hardhitters from outside the top 20 (Dani and Domi), but it's clear from what she's saying now that she wasn't working methodically at improving her weaker sides and really add things to her game, not until recently.
The Hantuchova match was the first time Caro lost to Dani. The loss to Domi was 4th round. Thats as far as Caro ever got at Wimbledon. But she changed her game going into her best surface, based on losses that can happen to her on those surfaces. When she played Domi she was holding 9 titles and was in 15 semis of her last 19 tournaments.
Since Domi, is 2 and a half years with a total of 4 titles, all in smaller events. Her career changed there, for the worse. And she was going to hardcourts where her old style was very tough to beat
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Old Oct 21st, 2013, 02:12 AM   #3870
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Caro has to improve her serve. That was always the biggest problem. I think thats something she cant take lightly.
As far as this style of play, I know you cant rush the net behind mediocre approach shots. I dont care what one or 2 points looked like at an Intl. Much better volleyers than Caro know they have to pick their spots to approach carefully, or you're just hoping your opponent sees you come in and chokes. That wont win premiers. I want to see her go thru a decent draw with this style
Her serve being a bigger problem than her forehand? Her second serve, sure, but surely not her first serve..

I actually think her serve shouldn't be her main priority. She should work on the rest of her game instead - her approach shots, her volleys, and her forehand in general (whether it be technique and/or timing). She tends to shift her body weight at the wrong time when she tries to redirect the ball with her forehand.

Considering the serves of the rest of the top ten, her serve isn't bad. Errani, Kerber, and Azarenka are fine even with their weak serves. That's because they have such solid groundstrokes that it doesn't matter as much.
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