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Old Dec 26th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #1
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Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Let's list or discuss our goals for Caro in the 2014 season.

Here's a link to last year's suggested goals:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=470032
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Old Dec 26th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #2
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

After 2 years with no titles until after all 4 majors are over, and very little success on clay, I would suggest that she tries to start the year better than she has before, not take the AO for granted. Then it depends what level she's playing at, but something has changed and she has a lot of trouble with consistency, and doesnt seem to want to be consistent anymore.
If her level is such that she cant win titles anymore, its important to work on being prepared for early round matches, because if she isnt good enough to win a title, at least get through some draws to the quarters, especially on clay
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Old Dec 29th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #3
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Go (at least) one round further than she did at each event in 2013 (and repeat at the event she won).
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Old Dec 29th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #4
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Firstly, stay healthy and motivated through the whole season, secondly, win at least 1 Premier tournament and make at least one GS Semi-final!
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Old Dec 30th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #5
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Results Orientated goals:
  1. Make the YEC
  2. To not lose to a player ranked below her.
  3. 50% (or better) W:L against player ranked above her.
    (But goal 2 is the more important first in order to get to play the players ranked above her)
  4. Win a Premier.
Other goals:

There should be some goals with her game and from her training with TH that she should have as well. Depends on what specifically they work on. But for example, at the end of last year - she was coming to the net more. So if she does that then a goal could maybe be to win at least 75% of points at the net. One goal I would like to see is:
  • When in a winning position (e.g. serving to win or if she has MP) - be looking to control the point(s) and make the win happen as opposed to sitting back and just hoping your opponent makes a mistake.
Note that I have deliberately not set any goals relating to slams. They are all about her general level of play at slams and tournaments being better.
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Old Dec 30th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #6
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Stay healthy throughout the season. (Please,Woz )
Win against a top 10 player.
Win at least two events.
Stay motivated and focused.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2014, 03:06 PM   #7
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Results Orientated goals:
  1. Make the YEC
  2. To not lose to a player ranked below her.
  3. 50% (or better) W:L against player ranked above her.
    (But goal 2 is the more important first in order to get to play the players ranked above her)
  4. Win a Premier.
Wouldn't it be recommended we set goals that are actually achievable. Number 2 on this list for all intents and purposes is an impossible goal. Has anybody in the history of tennis ever done that?

Anyway I would only have 1 goal, make the YEC.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2014, 11:39 PM   #8
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Wouldn't it be recommended we set goals that are actually achievable. Number 2 on this list for all intents and purposes is an impossible goal. Has anybody in the history of tennis ever done that?

Anyway I would only have 1 goal, make the YEC.
Number 2 on my list is the most important goal as far as I'm concerned. If I was only allowed one single goal for her - that would be it. To beat players she should be beating. It's the whole problem last season - losing to players ranked way below her and not even making it to the players she's supposed to meet. Goals should come in a variety of toughness. Incidentally - if she fails on this and loses to a player ranked below her - the goal should still stand for the remaining matches in the year. Then we get at the end how well she did with the goal as opposed to just a passed or failed.

Annika Sorenstam is rated by most people to have been the greatest woman golfer ever. She was really into setting goals. I think all players set goals - some maybe public, some private. But she was big into making them public. Towards the end of her career - she stated her goal was to win all 4 majors in the year and she gave that goal again the following year. This was a pretty unrealistic goal in your words - especially because she didn't win majors at the rate Tiger did. But I'd prefer listening to her to what you say goals should be limited to.

I must admit that I am thinking in terms of players ranked lower than she is now i.e. not in the top 10. The higher you are ranked - the fewer players there are below you. In the extreme if you are #1 - the goal becomes that you have to win every match you play. I'm thinking of setting a high goal but one to aim for of not losing to players who are outside the top 10.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2014, 01:10 AM   #9
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Number 2 on my list is the most important goal as far as I'm concerned. If I was only allowed one single goal for her - that would be it. To beat players she should be beating. It's the whole problem last season - losing to players ranked way below her and not even making it to the players she's supposed to meet. Goals should come in a variety of toughness. Incidentally - if she fails on this and loses to a player ranked below her - the goal should still stand for the remaining matches in the year. Then we get at the end how well she did with the goal as opposed to just a passed or failed.

Annika Sorenstam is rated by most people to have been the greatest woman golfer ever. She was really into setting goals. I think all players set goals - some maybe public, some private. But she was big into making them public. Towards the end of her career - she stated her goal was to win all 4 majors in the year and she gave that goal again the following year. This was a pretty unrealistic goal in your words - especially because she didn't win majors at the rate Tiger did. But I'd prefer listening to her to what you say goals should be limited to.

I must admit that I am thinking in terms of players ranked lower than she is now i.e. not in the top 10. The higher you are ranked - the fewer players there are below you. In the extreme if you are #1 - the goal becomes that you have to win every match you play. I'm thinking of setting a high goal but one to aim for of not losing to players who are outside the top 10.
This is the way she's changed mentally.
Caroline used to be very consistent. From week to week, from match to match, and in her style of play.
Around the time she lost to Cibulkova at Wimbledon, she changed. Now her game is inconsistent and her results are inconsistent.
I thought her best part of 2013 was Dubai SF, IW F. But then she won only 3 matches in her next 7 tournaments.

Unless she can get that mental toughness back, losses to players she "should beat" is just her everyday results now
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Old Jan 3rd, 2014, 03:16 AM   #10
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Number 2 on my list is the most important goal as far as I'm concerned. If I was only allowed one single goal for her - that would be it. To beat players she should be beating. It's the whole problem last season - losing to players ranked way below her and not even making it to the players she's supposed to meet. Goals should come in a variety of toughness. Incidentally - if she fails on this and loses to a player ranked below her - the goal should still stand for the remaining matches in the year. Then we get at the end how well she did with the goal as opposed to just a passed or failed.

Annika Sorenstam is rated by most people to have been the greatest woman golfer ever. She was really into setting goals. I think all players set goals - some maybe public, some private. But she was big into making them public. Towards the end of her career - she stated her goal was to win all 4 majors in the year and she gave that goal again the following year. This was a pretty unrealistic goal in your words - especially because she didn't win majors at the rate Tiger did. But I'd prefer listening to her to what you say goals should be limited to.

I must admit that I am thinking in terms of players ranked lower than she is now i.e. not in the top 10. The higher you are ranked - the fewer players there are below you. In the extreme if you are #1 - the goal becomes that you have to win every match you play. I'm thinking of setting a high goal but one to aim for of not losing to players who are outside the top 10.
But I don't get it. It's not a goal. It's for all intents and purposes impossible. Nobody goes through the season not losing to anybody ranked below them. For starters if you do that you fly up the rankings and it gradually gets tougher to do. Your goal is effectively, do what no-one else has ever done in tennis history. A bit unrealistic don't you think?
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Old Jan 3rd, 2014, 06:02 AM   #11
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
But I don't get it. It's not a goal. It's for all intents and purposes impossible. Nobody goes through the season not losing to anybody ranked below them. For starters if you do that you fly up the rankings and it gradually gets tougher to do. Your goal is effectively, do what no-one else has ever done in tennis history. A bit unrealistic don't you think?
Its very simple. If Caro gets through draws, like she did at IW & Dubai, then if she loses its to someone like Sharapova, not Muguruza or Voegele or McHale.
Caroline has lost the mental toughness. This sport is mental. You have to start well, play well, finish well. You cant start down a set, match after match, and expect to keep winning. And you cant fall apart like she did against Giorgi.
What she's been doing for 2 years is mentally weak and inconsistent, compared to her good form
But this is who she is now, just like Jankovic & Ivanovic. Only the greats keep that mental toughness for years and years
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Old Jan 3rd, 2014, 08:41 AM   #12
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
But I don't get it. It's not a goal. It's for all intents and purposes impossible. Nobody goes through the season not losing to anybody ranked below them. For starters if you do that you fly up the rankings and it gradually gets tougher to do. Your goal is effectively, do what no-one else has ever done in tennis history. A bit unrealistic don't you think?
Of course it's a goal. Tell Annika Sorenstam her goals were impossible and therefore not a goal because it's too difficult. Who appointed you as to what a goal was and was not?
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Old Jan 3rd, 2014, 02:27 PM   #13
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Of course it's a goal. Tell Annika Sorenstam her goals were impossible and therefore not a goal because it's too difficult. Who appointed you as to what a goal was and was not?
If you really want to go down this route I will play your game. Using this same logic, you should just set her goals as "win every match, win all 4 grand slams, win all 9 tier I's". After all it doesn't matter if they aren't achievable, you can re-assess later. The logic is terrible.

Bringing up a point that isn't even the same thing doesn't work either. That's no different to Andy Murray, whoever claiming "I want to win everything I enter" or whatever. That doesn't make that an actual target. Pretty much all the top player's in sports with some kind of major system (ie. golf and tennis) will claim they want to win every major or whatever.

I don't know about Annika Sorenstam but wikipedia would suggest she was world number 1, so this is standard for someone like her to say. Besides her winning all 4 majors if she was world number 1 wasn't completely ridiculous given it looks like she was winning a major every year.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2014, 03:37 PM   #14
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
If you really want to go down this route I will play your game. Using this same logic, you should just set her goals as "win every match, win all 4 grand slams, win all 9 tier I's". After all it doesn't matter if they aren't achievable, you can re-assess later. The logic is terrible.

Bringing up a point that isn't even the same thing doesn't work either. That's no different to Andy Murray, whoever claiming "I want to win everything I enter" or whatever. That doesn't make that an actual target. Pretty much all the top player's in sports with some kind of major system (ie. golf and tennis) will claim they want to win every major or whatever.

I don't know about Annika Sorenstam but wikipedia would suggest she was world number 1, so this is standard for someone like her to say. Besides her winning all 4 majors if she was world number 1 wasn't completely ridiculous given it looks like she was winning a major every year.
Firstly - winning all four majors in a year is almost impossible nowadays and a completely different balll-game to winning a single major in the year. But that was a goal Annika had. Really you should know that it's a completely different level of difficulty and I'd have thought anyone would know that. One of your most ridiculous statements saying that it's standard for someone like her to set that as a goal. No other LPGA player made goals like these (well maybe 50 years ago when there weren't anything like as many players playing). And it's never been achieved in any era (although all 3 majors were won by the same player in 1950).

Secondly - I set my goals I'd like for Caro- not you. And it's not the same goal as win every match she plays as you suggest. The goal of not losing to players she should be beating in order to make it through the draw to where her seeding says she should get has that purpose and is what I want as a goal. And I take no lessons from you as to what I would like as a goal.

If you want the unimaginative single goal of just the YEC - fine. But don't tell me or others what they can put as goals for her any more than you won't tell Annika Sorenstam what she could have as goals pretending that all 4 majors in a season is standard.
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Old Jan 4th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #15
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Re: Caro goals for 2014 suggestion thread

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Firstly - winning all four majors in a year is almost impossible nowadays and a completely different balll-game to winning a single major in the year. But that was a goal Annika had. Really you should know that it's a completely different level of difficulty and I'd have thought anyone would know that. One of your most ridiculous statements saying that it's standard for someone like her to set that as a goal. No other LPGA player made goals like these (well maybe 50 years ago when there weren't anything like as many players playing). And it's never been achieved in any era (although all 3 majors were won by the same player in 1950).

Secondly - I set my goals I'd like for Caro- not you. And it's not the same goal as win every match she plays as you suggest. The goal of not losing to players she should be beating in order to make it through the draw to where her seeding says she should get has that purpose and is what I want as a goal. And I take no lessons from you as to what I would like as a goal.

If you want the unimaginative single goal of just the YEC - fine. But don't tell me or others what they can put as goals for her any more than you won't tell Annika Sorenstam what she could have as goals pretending that all 4 majors in a season is standard.
There's no points for imagination.

If you want to set someone up to fail, that's fine. But setting impossible goals doesn't achieve anything. You are setting yourself up not to succeed from the offset.

And I would suggest you even take a rough look at statistical numbers for your first paragraph. Some quick research would reveal you are comparing the incomparable. The chances of Caro beating every player ranked below her if she plays a full schedule is rated as around 1 in 9.4 million. The chances of Sorenstam winning all 4 majors given she was world number 1 aren't even in the same stratosphere (very approximately it would be less than 1 in 10000). But yes, these are somehow comparable.

Your telling me lines that literally mean nothing. You are insisting going on about a story that is completely irrelevant, that doesn't mean anything. Someone said this, so what. 5 dozen football legends were having a go at Cardiff's owner the other week for having unachievable goals. That's no basis to anything.
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