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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 04:32 PM   #1
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Who, in the WTA Open era, has come closest to a game that suits all courts?

To me, it's Steffi, with the following GS single titles:
4 OZ
6 French
7 Wimbledon
5 US

Navratilova was the queen of Wimbledon, with 9 single titles; but she only managed 2 singles titles at Rolland Garros.

Serena is highly promising.

Now, with this in mind and considering the constant calls by the tennis pundits for players to come to the net, a side question I have is: how come Seles' baseline style with power from both forehand and backhand is favored today over Steffi's style? Is it because Monica's is easier to coach, easier to develop, easier to master, or else?
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 04:38 PM   #2
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I don't see that big a difference between a win and a final. Thus Martina only captured Roland Garros twice but made 6 finals, not bad. But look at Evert--5 slams on grass, and about twice as many finals. If not for Martina, Chris would have the record at both Roland Garros and Wimbledon and two more grass titles from Australia. Chris did superb on grass as long as Martina was not around. Stef is close she could win on anything. I go with Chris.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 04:45 PM   #3
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If Monica wasn't stabbed, then Steffi wouldn't have won as many Frenchs and US Opens.

Also you can look at it that way, if Navratilova was stabbed, then Evert would have won more Wimbledons and other slams. (the same goes for Navratilova she would have won many more French Opens and other slams if Evert was stabbed). Steffi's numbers are exagerated by that stabbing and everyone knows that. But I do agree that she's a great all-court player but do not use the stats because like I said, Navratilova, Evert, Seles could've have won more on particular surfaces (example: Navratilova with many more Frenchs if Evert was out) if their main opponent was forced out.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 04:55 PM   #4
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If you take a player and remove their biggest rival it is Chris who benefits the most for slam titles if you count losses in finals--without Martina she would have surpassed Court's numbers--she would have about 28 slams in singles. For Martina to have those numbers you would have to get rid of both Stef and Chris. This is why Chris is overlooked as a player.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:03 PM   #5
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I get sooooo tired of people boasting about Steffi's Grand Slam numbers and knocking Martina Navratilova's record. Martina went up against the greatest Clay court player in history(Chris Evert) and Chris went up against the greatest Grass court player of all time (martina) Whom did Steffi have to go up against during her prime. After Monica was stabbed Steffi won some of her slams by DEFAULT!
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:18 PM   #6
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I think I'll attempt an answer of the question.

Martina Navratilova

Answer to 2ndary question - Yes, Monica's style is easier to teach. Beyond that, it necessary for many players. Players start playing young. as soon as they can walk in some cases. They often aren't physically strong enough to hit the ball over the net from the baseline with a one handed backhand. And of course, it takes less time to teach you how to play on the baseline than it does to teachthe baseline, the midcourt, and the net. And becasue so many players on the women's side are physically weak, or out of condition. An in shape big hitting baseline player can easily defeat them. Then it becomes 'why mess with success?'

Add in the big time money (Remember Richard Williams (supposed) rational for having two more kids) and any success is likely to be exploited early, not nurtured into something more. Basically, players ar brought up to be Monica, and if the want to turn themselves into Steffi later, that's their perogative. THenxt truly great serve-and-volleyer is going to come from a very rch family, who can afford for tennis to be a loss leader til their daughter is 23 or 24. Venus Williams was a millionaire at 15. The future prodigy's family will have to be willing and able to give that up.

NOTE: 100 years from now, the names 'Steffi Graf' and 'Monica Seles' will have all the meaning to tennis fans that Louise Brough and Doris Hart have now. But the record books will stay have '22' next to Steffi's name, and '9' next to Monica's. Had Monica not been stabbed, she might have fallen in love six months later, retired, and have ten kids now. Or shye might have won 30 GS titles. The past is what it is. You can 'what if' the 22 and the 9 to death, but history only records results.

The 'how' fades far faster than the 'what'.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:19 PM   #7
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Steffi and Martina
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:20 PM   #8
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Steffi's game was not suited for grass, it was only when she decided to love grass that she started to dominate there but the result was that she blew some big big chances in 3 french open finals in a row(89: 5:3, 90:5 setpoints, 92:just look at the statistics) so I am not so sure Steffi is the best alround player!
not that it really matters!
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by selesrules
If Monica wasn't stabbed, then Steffi wouldn't have won as many Frenchs and US Opens.
That's a presumptuous thing to say ...It may be true but you don't know that for sure. Steffi earned all the grandslams she won, she couldn't help that such a tragedy would fall upon Monica. And who know's....Maybe Monica wouldv'e gotten lazy and bored with the game and would have never won a grandslam again had she not been stabbed.


Back to the original question....
Steffi certainly has the resume to be called queen of all courts, but certainly Martina N also with her numerous finals at the French open(not to mention a couple titles)...
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:26 PM   #10
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Interesting point regarding Chris's versatility; she's always heralded as the clay queen, but when looking at her wins and finals combined, she did quite well on grass too.

As far as Steffi having won more French and US titles because of Monica's stabbing: remove those that Steffi won in Monica's absence (2 French, 1 US) and Steffi still has won each slam at least 4 times. Also, keep in mind Steffi had already won EVERY slam twice by 1989. These figures speak volumes for her lack of having a weak surface and for her versatility.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:38 PM   #11
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If Monica was not stabbed, she would even be a different player in 1995, 1996, 1997 to today. Her mentality changed, at 1993 she was improving and then everything stopped and she went backwards while Steffi went forward with more confidence, etc. Monica's stabbing didn't only affect the results during 1993-1995, but forever. In other words, if she wasn't stabbed her results today would be different because she would have more experience, bigger confidence with all the extra records she would have, a different mentality, she would probably be even going for records such as most grandslams. Her motivation would be totally different.

And I'm sick of people saying to stop talking about the stabbing and that the bottom line is that Steffi has 22 and Monica 9. The bottom line is: Monica's stabbing is not a "what if", Monica's stabbing *IS A FACT*. Live with it because it changed tennis history and people will ALWAYS bring it up. It's so convenient for Graf fans that everyone would accept the numbers 22 and 9 and not talk about the stabbing, but that's not going to happen. Life isn't a fairy tale like that where you win and we should shut up.

Last edited by selesrules : Jul 22nd, 2002 at 05:43 PM.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:42 PM   #12
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If Monica had not been stabbed, she might not even be playing today. I wasn't saying that Monica not being stabbed wouldn't have hindered Steffi, but the fact is we will never know. Its useless to discuss whether or not Monica would have more grandslam titles or not because we'll never know.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:44 PM   #13
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If Navratilova was stabbed at her prime, wouldn't you agree that Evert would have many more grandslams then Navratilova? It doesn't take a genius.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:49 PM   #14
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I'm getting sick of people bringing up Monica's stabbing. Steffi won all of her slams because she played the best then, and whether Monica was stabbed or not wouldn't of made a huge impact. Most likely she would have retired earlier and wouldn't be playing today. Like Volcana and others said, they'll have a 22 next to Steffi's name, and 9 next to Monica.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:52 PM   #15
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Hahaha... That's why I hate Steffi and Steffi fans. Because they are cold and unhuman. Who cares about everything else as long as they get things their way. Pathetic.
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