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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #1
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Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

N.J. school system bans a controversial documentary about tolerance

By Mike Celizic
TODAYShow.com contributor
Updated: 5:59 p.m. ET Sept 17, 2007

The State of New Jersey mandates that all school children be taught a diversity curriculum by the fourth grade, and the Evesham Township Board of Education says that’s what it intends to do. It just doesn’t want part of that education to be conveyed by a film about diversity in families that includes households with same-sex parents.

The film, “That’s a Family!”, looks at diversity through the eyes of children who talk about their own families. One child talks about having mixed-race parents. Another talks about living with a divorced parent. Others talk about single parents, traditional parents, adoptive parents.

And then there’s the child who says, “This is my mom. Her name is Betty. And this is my other mom. Her name is Kim.”

As one parent told NBC’s Ron Allen, “I'm losing my tolerance for the amount of tolerance I'm supposed to tolerate.”

The film was shown last December to a third-grade class in Evesham’s J. Harold Van Zant School. When parents heard from their children about the film, some objected. The school board stopped the film from being shown and appointed a committee made up of all segments of the community to determine whether the film was acceptable to show to the district’s children. The board also commissioned a poll of district attitudes on the issue.

The poll showed that Evesham, an affluent suburb of Philadelphia, was split almost exactly down the middle — half in favor, half opposed. The committee was more positive, recommending that the film be shown in district schools, but to fourth graders instead of third graders.

At an Aug. 30 meeting the board heard the recommendation of the committee and then voted to ban the video altogether. The state-mandated diversity program would be addressed through discussion, it decided, not a film.

To those who opposed the board, it seemed clear that the objection wasn’t to showing single-parent or mixed-race households, but to showing children who had gay parents.

“It’s not about parental control, it’s about fear of gay people,” Steven Goldstein, the president of a New Jersey gay rights group, Garden State Equality, told “The New York Times.” “We think the school board’s decision hinges on its fear of one community — the lesbian and gay community — and violates the state’s law against discrimination.”

“What kind of message is the school board and community sending to children whose family structure is perceived as ‘different’ in some way?” Debra Chasnoff, the Academy Award-winning director who made the film wrote in an op-ed piece in “The Philadelphia Inquirer” after the board initially ordered that teachers stop showing the film. “‘You don't belong here?’ ‘Your family is not normal?’ Or — in the words of one parent who spoke out recently — ‘your family is ‘disgusting’?”

Those who fought to have it removed from the curriculum in Evesham say they’re all in favor of teaching diversity, but many parents say it should be up to them to decide when to tell their children about same-sex parents and what to tell them about such households.

“I think it's the parents’ decision to decide to teach their children morality,” local parent Mike Quinn told NBC.

“I think they need to be more open-minded because there are families like this in our schools,” countered another parent, Tricia Colmon.

Kathy Yeager, a teacher, said that parents are seeing issues that don’t even occur to the kids watching the film. “I think third grade is too young for them to understand the ramifications of what the parents are upset about,” she told Allen.

“That’s a Family!” was produced in 2000 by Chasnoff, who won an Academy Award in 1991 for a documentary about the nuclear-weapons industry. Highly praised by various groups and screened in the Clinton White House, the film, distributed by Women’s Educational Media, is used in hundreds of school districts around the country.

In some, where the content is an issue, parents are allowed to prescreen it and decide for themselves whether they want their children to see it. The compromise proposed by Evesham’s committee also recommended that local parents be allowed to make the same decision.

But it still wasn’t enough to get over the opposition to a boy named Daniel in the film, who tells viewers, “There are my two dads, Rusty and Jason.”
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #2
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Why do straight people feel so threatened by homosexuals? Even recognizing that they exist causes uproars like this. Straight people care way too much about gay people. It's really weird. You'd almost think they're insecure about something.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 05:35 PM   #3
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Quote:
Originally Posted by égalité View Post
Why do straight people feel so threatened by homosexuals? Even recognizing that they exist causes uproars like this. Straight people care way too much about gay people. It's really weird. You'd almost think they're insecure about something.

I think insecurity and ignorance are a lot of what it is. The sad thing is, it has been the history of the United States since the beginning. In 50 years, everyone will love gays and gays will be allowed to marry and no one will want to talk about this time period right now when gays were treated as second class citizens and anytime anyone brings it up, people will say that was in the past and why can't people get over it. Much like they do now with minorities and racism.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 05:45 PM   #4
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Quote:
As one parent told NBC’s Ron Allen, “I'm losing my tolerance for the amount of tolerance I'm supposed to tolerate.”
That has to be one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 06:38 PM   #5
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

That parent is right.
This is a 4th grade class.
All the kids need to be told is don't pick on other people for
being different from you - period.

Good for them for standing up for a change. Instead of rolling
over due to the news and media and activist group rants and
raves about anyone daring to question the mandated tolerance
education kids must have.

Tolerance means put up with - tolerate. Not embrace or like or love.

How about tolerating some parents who dare to question what the
liberal school system is forcing them to show and give their kids?



It's a local school, and that's where the decisions should be made -
locally. These parents are saying, stop it. Stop forcing our kids
to deal with adult issues as kids, or having one type of lifestyle
shoved in their face over another. How about teaching them to read,
write, work with computers, and stop falling so far behind the
kids in Japan in terms of education.

If the schools spent more time dealing with a hard line education
system and mandatory testing, perhaps, we would have kids with more
opportunity in their future, instead of such high drop out rates.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 06:47 PM   #6
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Desperate Houswives.
Brothers and Sisters.
Will and Grace.
Cable tv shows.
Ellen.
Rosie.
Elton John.
All successful gay stars, or shows written by gay writers, etc.
Mainstream.
Prime Time.
Millionaires, billionaires.

What intolerance are you talking of on the whole in America?
The majority of Americans support civil unions.
The majority of Americans support the idea you can will what
you want to who you want, family, straight, gay, friends, your dog, whatever.
The majority of Americans support the idea of tolerance.
Most American support simple individual freedom.

Hollywood, Academy Awards, Emmys, Grammys, you will find
a lot of gay men and women who are successful, wealthy, and
open about it. They have more influence on our viewing,
reading, and entertainment than about any other group in America.



That doesn't mean all Americans want traditional marriage laws
in their state alterd or removed to ensure gay marriage is legal.
They largely don't. Left and right, black and white. They don't.

Nor does it mean parents want more sexual diversity taught to their
kids in elementary school. Having seen Britanny and Paris these
days, all over our tv sets, who can blame them for being leery of
any growth in sex education in lower level grades by the far left
union driven school system. How about being tolerant of a few people
who disagree with you.

Really, I wouldn't worry too much about American parents and tolerance.
The fastest growing population in the world, especially Europe, is Islamic.

They won't have any tolerance for the gay community. But, we concentrate
on hating Americans who dare to question any of the gay agenda and policy ideas
instead.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 07:34 PM   #7
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsung101 View Post
That parent is right.
This is a 4th grade class.
All the kids need to be told is don't pick on other people for
being different from you - period.

Good for them for standing up for a change. Instead of rolling
over due to the news and media and activist group rants and
raves about anyone daring to question the mandated tolerance
education kids must have.

Tolerance means put up with - tolerate. Not embrace or like or love.

How about tolerating some parents who dare to question what the
liberal school system is forcing them to show and give their kids?



It's a local school, and that's where the decisions should be made -
locally. These parents are saying, stop it. Stop forcing our kids
to deal with adult issues as kids, or having one type of lifestyle
shoved in their face over another. How about teaching them to read,
write, work with computers, and stop falling so far behind the
kids in Japan in terms of education.

If the schools spent more time dealing with a hard line education
system and mandatory testing, perhaps, we would have kids with more
opportunity in their future, instead of such high drop out rates.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #8
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Yep, having had two kids in one, I can tell you what bastions of liberalism those "affluent" suburban school systems are, with mock elections usually going about 80%/20% for Republican candidates and kids who dared to voice support for Democrats being threatened with physical violence. ( I realize my experience is limited to my locality, but it certainly seems reflective of general trends).

My suspicion is that a sizable number of those parents who are saying they want to discuss it when it's appropriate basically don't want to discuss it at all.

The gist of it all is that this film and this effort are about getting kids to accept other kids, regardless of their family background. Parents and children can disapprove of gay parents, divorced parents, mixed race parents etc. if they want. But the kids of these families have no control over who their parents are. And kids have a tendency to pick on kids who are perceived as "different." This tendency can be mitigated somewhat by programs like this one. So I don't see the problem, except that it bothers the "famiy values" crowd that their children might ever question those values, even if for a few minutes while they watch a film.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 08:25 PM   #9
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

God samsung, could someone be more close-minded and actually don't realize?
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 08:55 PM   #10
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsung101 View Post
Desperate Houswives.
Brothers and Sisters.
Will and Grace.
Cable tv shows.
Ellen.
Rosie.
Elton John.
All successful gay stars, or shows written by gay writers, etc.
Mainstream.
Prime Time.
Millionaires, billionaires.

What intolerance are you talking of on the whole in America?
The majority of Americans support civil unions.
The majority of Americans support the idea you can will what
you want to who you want, family, straight, gay, friends, your dog, whatever.
The majority of Americans support the idea of tolerance.
Most American support simple individual freedom.

Hollywood, Academy Awards, Emmys, Grammys, you will find
a lot of gay men and women who are successful, wealthy, and
open about it. They have more influence on our viewing,
reading, and entertainment than about any other group in America.
Well samsung, these comments of yours hurt your argument. I feel this is exactly why there shouldn't be a problem showing the video to these 3rd/4th graders. There are so many gay parents in real life and the media anyways, that children are bound to ask about them anyways.

It's not like the video is pushing the gay agenda. It's just simply teaching kids that there are other kids like themselves out there who have maybe 2 fathers/mothers.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 09:44 PM   #11
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

It is an issue the parents should get to debate and discuss locally.
It's not a national issue. The feds should stay out.

They're not asking to eliminate tolerance lessons. As mandated by the
big brother State.

They're saying the forced and mandatory lesson that incldues this video
is going too far for their taste.

Fair enough complaint.

You are allowed to complain as a parent of a child in a public school
aren't you? They're doing that.

They're only saying, hey, for 4th graders, this is too much in their view.
Why do their little kids have to get into this at all?

It wouldn't be the first time a GLSEN or GLADD or gay activist group/teacher union
lesson plan for a public school has been questioned. It won't be the last.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #12
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

4th graders are too young to hear that other kids have parents?



Honestly, get your mind out of the gutter.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #13
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

You're presuming the kids don't get same sex information in any other
form in the school system. They probably do already. They should probably
get this information after 6th grade. Not when they're making finger puppets
and still into Transformers and Dora lunch boxes.



These parents have every right to say they do not approve of this lesson plan tool.


It's amazing to me we can't say Christmas in school anymore, can't discuss why 9/11 happened
in relation to Islamic fascists, or have an 'Easter' break...but, we can force feed 8 or 9
year olds same sex marriage and relationships...over the objection of some parents who may
not want that done at this point in their kids lives.

Being 'forced' to accept the school policy is really the main issue. The parents have a right
to ask for an alternative or a change in the lesson plan.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 09:56 PM   #14
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Sorry, you can't deal with the idea that parents have a voice in the school system.

They should be heard, and not trounced for differing with the politically correct
mandated and force fed agenda of one group. They may very well be shot down in the
school board, or at the state capital. Still, have the right to say 4th grade is too
young in their silly parental minds for this.

All they did was have the kids, care for them, and love them...so, why should anything
they say matter.

In the end, they'll probably lose their case. Fine. But, they should be
allowed to say, excuse me, I don't care for this for my 9 year old.

Gutter? As usual, disagree with a liberal, and you get smeared. That follows the
script.


That's the place anyone gets to go who disagrees with the teacher union, Democrats who
control the New Jersey state govt. and school system, and the powerful gay activist
groups in politics. Tolerance is a one way street I guess.

Could be why more people are opting for private schools, charter schools that exclude this
area entirely and instead concentrate on basic education, and home schooling.
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Old Sep 19th, 2007, 09:59 PM   #15
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Re: Same-sex talk in diversity video divides town

Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedmax View Post
Yep, having had two kids in one, I can tell you what bastions of liberalism those "affluent" suburban school systems are, with mock elections usually going about 80%/20% for Republican candidates and kids who dared to voice support for Democrats being threatened with physical violence. ( I realize my experience is limited to my locality, but it certainly seems reflective of general trends).

My suspicion is that a sizable number of those parents who are saying they want to discuss it when it's appropriate basically don't want to discuss it at all.

The gist of it all is that this film and this effort are about getting kids to accept other kids, regardless of their family background. Parents and children can disapprove of gay parents, divorced parents, mixed race parents etc. if they want. But the kids of these families have no control over who their parents are. And kids have a tendency to pick on kids who are perceived as "different." This tendency can be mitigated somewhat by programs like this one. So I don't see the problem, except that it bothers the "famiy values" crowd that their children might ever question those values, even if for a few minutes while they watch a film.

I can make the same argument about some urban areas except they go 80/20 for Democrats.
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