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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 02:35 AM   #4171
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

I have a question about rankings. The rules are these:
---------------
"The tournaments that count towards a player's ranking are those that yield the highest ranking points during the rolling 52-week period. They must include points from the Grand Slams, Premier Mandatory tournaments and the WTA Championships. For Top 20 players, their best two results at Premier 5 tournaments (Doha, Rome,Cincinnati, Montréal/Toronto and Tokyo) will also count."
---------------

What happens when a player gets into top 20, and he loses points because his "Premier 5" tournaments were poor and he had only few points in all of them?
So, he gets into top 20 and then drops back below the top 20 if another player has more ranking points after the deduction? What then, does he gets back the lost points because he is now below top 20 and the 'Premier 5' tournaments are not counted? And so it goes again and again...
What is the law here?


Btw, in Simona's case nothing changes if she reaches top 20. She already has the Rome, Montréal, Tokyo events counted. All 3 are 'Premier 5' tournaments.

Last edited by Si Si Simona : Jul 11th, 2013 at 06:39 AM.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 04:47 AM   #4172
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 06:56 AM   #4173
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Si Simona View Post
I have a question about rankings. The rules are these:
---------------
"The tournaments that count towards a player's ranking are those that yield the highest ranking points during the rolling 52-week period. They must include points from the Grand Slams, Premier Mandatory tournaments and the WTA Championships. For Top 20 players, their best two results at Premier 5 tournaments (Doha, Rome,Cincinnati, Montréal/Toronto and Tokyo) will also count."
---------------

What happens when a player gets into top 20, and he loses points because his "Premier 5" tournaments were poor and he had only few points in all of them?
So, he gets into top 20 and then drops back below the top 20 if another player has more ranking points after the deduction? What then, does he gets back the lost points because he is now below top 20 and the 'Premier 5' tournaments are not counted? And so it goes again and again...
What is the law here?


Btw, in Simona's case nothing changes if she reaches top 20. She already has the Rome, Montréal, Tokyo events counted. All 3 are 'Premier 5' tournaments.
That rule is for the top 20 at the end of the previous year.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 07:41 AM   #4174
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by grs View Post
That rule is for the top 20 at the end of the previous year.
Do you mean "previous calendar year"?
If that's correct, lets say a player on the Dec 31 gets less points because they calculated 2 more "premier 5" events, and he drops down to rank 21 because of that.
What happens next? He is now in 21 place. How are they calculating his points now?...
If they keep the 'premier 5' results, then its not fair because he is not top 20 anymore!
If they ignore the 'premier 5', then he jumps back to top 20!
That's my question.

Last edited by Si Si Simona : Jul 11th, 2013 at 07:48 AM.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 08:22 AM   #4175
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

If Simona should finish this year inside Top 20 - she will have to count her two best Premier 5 results for the coming year.


Should a player finish this year inside the Top 10 - she will only be allowed to play two 280 events next year.
Did a player start the year outside the Top 10, but reach it in the course of the season - she still can play as many MMs as she would like for the rest of the year and can count them for her ranking in accordance to other ranking obligations.

etc.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #4176
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curcubeu View Post
If Simona should finish this year inside Top 20 - she will have to count her two best Premier 5 results for the coming year.


Should a player finish this year inside the Top 10 - she will only be allowed to play two 280 events next year.
Did a player start the year outside the Top 10, but reach it in the course of the season - she still can play as many MMs as she would like for the rest of the year and can count them for her ranking in accordance to other ranking obligations.

etc.
IMO it's just a stupid rule it makes no sense, since in any case top players won't play many internationals, but with this rule counting points becomes really hard and small tournaments with great tradition can't live up their name unless they find newer sponsors for an upgrade

sorry for the
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 08:42 AM   #4177
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

On the ATP a rule like this doesn't exist. Even a Top 10 player can play as many 250 events as he would like, but can only count a total of 6 to his final ranking (which still can be a lot).

It gives many tournaments a chance for a better field, although a lot top players may only show up for the appearance fee they get.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #4178
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curcubeu View Post
If Simona should finish this year inside Top 20 - she will have to count her two best Premier 5 results for the coming year etc.
Thanks, my problem was what happens when players ranked lower than 20 (21,22) are benefitting from a top 20 deducted points and then having less in total from the ranked 21. They are supposed to switch places.
I guess that the ranked 21 who jumps to 20 now will also be counting the two 'premier 5' events, and so on... until no one is inside the top 20.
All players including those going up as a result of the original deduction are having the premier 5 being counted.

Example:
A player ranked exactly in 20 is dropping down to 24 because two premier 5 events were added! Then, all 4 players who jumped above him will be checked one by one, first is the new top 20. If he also drops, then the ranked 22 is checked, and so on until 23.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 09:00 AM   #4179
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

The ranking will stay exactly the same, but the ranking obligations for either player will differ in the upcoming season, not for the tournaments she has been played this year.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 09:03 AM   #4180
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Si Simona View Post
Thanks, my problem was what happens when players ranked lower than 20 (21,22) are benefitting from a top 20 deducted points and then having less in total from the ranked 21. They are supposed to switch places.
I guess that the ranked 21 who jumps to 20 now, will also be counting the 2 'premier 5' events, and so on... until no one is inside the top 20.
All players including those going up as a result of the original deduction are having the premier 5 being counted.

Example:
A player ranked exactly in 20 dropping down to 24 because two premier 5 events were added! Then, all 4 players who jumped above him will be checked one by one, first is the new top 20. If he also drops, then the ranked 22 is checked, and so on until 23.
wait,wait wait...

let's suppose that Simona ends 2013 by snatching a top 20 debut...in the case she will keep her ranking, it won't be changed immediately, but whenever her points come off they will be replaced according to her new top 20 status...let's suppose she doesn't defend her Rome run, her points couldn't be "fixed" by two internationals, she'll have another P5 counting instead etc. etc.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 09:04 AM   #4181
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curcubeu View Post
The ranking will stay exactly the same, but the ranking obligations for either player will differ in the upcoming season, not for the tournaments she has been played this year.
what does "upcoming season" exactly means? from dec to dec?
what do you mean exactly?
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 09:08 AM   #4182
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitten Kitten View Post
wait,wait wait...

let's suppose that Simona ends 2013 by snatching a top 20 debut...in the case she will keep her ranking, it won't be changed immediately, but whenever her points come off they will be replaced according to her new top 20 status...let's suppose she doesn't defend her Rome run, her points couldn't be "fixed" by two internationals, she'll have another P5 counting instead etc. etc.
So if she goes to rank 21 on January 2014, she will still be punished for the rest of the year for being rank 20 exactly on December 13? That's stupid by them. She will be punished 11 months for what happened in one month? What a strange law.
They should do what I say. Automatic 2 events count the moment you are top 20. If another player jumps to 20 as a result of the first change then he should also be counted on 2 events.
It should be automatic all the time.
Or, just cancel the whole idea.
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 09:16 AM   #4183
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

This rule is like a punishment for breaking into the top 20 !
Its better to be ranked 21 or 22 exactly on December

Simona is OK at present with this rule. She has three "premier 5" events in her count of the 16 best events. She is counted as if she is top 20 already.

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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #4184
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Si Simona View Post
So if she goes to rank 21 on January 2014, she will still be punished for the rest of the year for being rank 20 exactly on December 13? That's stupid by them. She will be punished 11 months for what happened in one month? What a strange law.
They should do what I say. Automatic 2 events count the moment you are top 20. If another player jumps to 20 as a result of the first change then he should also be counted on 2 events.
It should be automatic all the time.
Or, just cancel the whole idea.
With high ranking comes great responsibility
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Old Jul 11th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #4185
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Re: Simona Halep (România)

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrutc View Post
With high ranking comes great responsibility
Its just one big mess the men don't have that.
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