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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 04:06 PM   #1
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Monica Seles before 1993

I'm not talking about her game. I'm interested in general fans' and media's perception of Monica and her relationship with other players, mostly Steffi. I've never known the exact details about it, first because I was very young then and because at that time in Yugoslavia Monica was nation's sweetheart and media presented her at first as an angel impossible not to like and later that everybody hated her because she's from Yugoslavia and everyone hates us (this maybe won't make sense to you but it was like that).
But I read many stories which say that Monica wasn't as accpeted before stabbing as she was when she returned in 1995.
Can you clear this up?
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 04:31 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joana
I'm not talking about her game. I'm interested in general fans' and media's perception of Monica and her relationship with other players, mostly Steffi. I've never known the exact details about it, first because I was very young then and because at that time in Yugoslavia Monica was nation's sweetheart and media presented her at first as an angel impossible not to like and later that everybody hated her because she's from Yugoslavia and everyone hates us (this maybe won't make sense to you but it was like that).
But I read many stories which say that Monica wasn't as accpeted before stabbing as she was when she returned in 1995.
Can you clear this up?
Regarding Monica's popularity before the stabbing- she obviously wasn't nearly as popular because there wasn't the pity factor so many people felt for her after the stabbing, and some people still can't let go of that to this day. She took women's tennis so completely by storm from 1991-1993 that most of the other top players simply looked at her as the one to beat- the target. Plus, she travelled almost exclusively with her father and brother and sometimes mother, and was occasionally caught up in the "movie-star" thing, as if she was a modern-day Greta Garbo or something. I've always heard she was pretty well-liked in the locker room, though. A few of the top players were annoyed at her grunting, which I at first thought was silly, but then I watched Monica warm up and practice a few times live, and both times she was absolutely silent. I started watching her matches more closely, and she would actually make some of her loudest screams while hitting drop shots or off-pace angles- the shots which require the least amount of effort! Another thing to consider about Monica pre-93 is that she refused to play for Yugoslavia in Fed Cup or the Olympics, and was heavily questioned about the situation in Croatia. She refused to answer or discuss anything about Croatia, and this did not sit particularly well with players like Goran Ivanisevic and Goran Prpic at the time, both of whom were very vocal about their disappointment in her.

Graf was never a social butterfly- ever. She rarely spent time in the locker room- just ran in and out so fast most people missed her. I don't think her relationship with Seles was any different than her relationship with anybody else on the tour- she preferred her privacy and remained that way throughout her career. She has always been just a tennis player and an athlete- never much into being a celebrity, which Monica clearly enjoyed.

Different personalities- as different as night and day. Both great champions
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 04:56 PM   #3
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Thanks!
I didn't know about her relationship with Croatian players, very interesting.
Our media made Steffi look like a bad guy who desperately tried to steal something that was Monica's own. According to them, they could have easily started a fight on the tennis court.
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 05:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joana
Thanks!
I didn't know about her relationship with Croatian players, very interesting.
Our media made Steffi look like a bad guy who desperately tried to steal something that was Monica's own. According to them, they could have easily started a fight on the tennis court.
I often wondered why Monica didn't go bleached blonde and take on the Gabor sisters way of life, as technically, she's an ethnic Hungarian woman.

Think about it- Monica arrives on court in diamond-studded sunglasses and a blonde beehive with long silk gloves and poodles in tow, directing everyone to accommondate her every desire, dahling! It would have been fun to see her slap an umpire or two as well!
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 06:41 PM   #5
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Joana, first and foremost, you nor any other Yugoslav (or former Yugoslav) will be hated here I remember the tennis world being excited by Seles. In 89 and 90 she was often described as a having "wonderful childlike" qualities. She was definitely a breath of fresh air.

At some point, Monica seemed to let her press go to her head somewhat. If so, I don't really blamer her because she was so young and so many others have reacted the same way. They eagerly reported that she loved Madonna, Greta Garbo, and Suzanne Lenglen. She played up to that with some of her antics. The topper for me was the 1991 Wimbledon. When she released a curt statement simlply saying that she wasn't going to play that year. Then, supposedly at her request, IMG wouldn't speak any further about why she was not playing. This lead to all kinds of rumors about her including that she was pregnant.

Of course, right after Wimbledon she reappears with Zolton. Both of them dressed very strange and acting so bizarre. This lead to a strong anti-Seles reaction not only from the press but also from other players. Everyone was convinced that she was purely after publicity.

She seemed to settle down after that somewhat. Although she had been popular amongst the other players, her credibility took a nose dive with the establishment. Michael Meshaw was writing his book about the womens tour when all of this was taking place. Naturally, he had a field day with this.

The Seles' seemed like good people to me. However it was up to Monica and Zolton to lead the family. Maybe typical of their ages, they made a lot of mistakes. I think they all changed for the better after 1991.

After her life changing experience, I think its plain to see what an intelligent and sensitive person she really is. Making those mistakes and learning from them helped her become a different person as an adult.

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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 07:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
I often wondered why Monica didn't go bleached blonde and take on the Gabor sisters way of life, as technically, she's an ethnic Hungarian woman.

Think about it- Monica arrives on court in diamond-studded sunglasses and a blonde beehive with long silk gloves and poodles in tow, directing everyone to accommondate her every desire, dahling! It would have been fun to see her slap an umpire or two as well!
LOL about the Gabor reference, Alfa. Do you remember the picture of Zsa Zsa on my kitchen wall with the classic line:
"How many husbands have I had - you mean apart from my own?"?

Joana, I found your comment about people hating Yugoslavia very touching; I can only echo HanaFanGA's reply and send you the warmest and most sincere of greetings:
:-) dobrodoshla

I think that Monica went through the same stages in her reception by the media as most upcoming greats - she was the cute teenager and the bright new talent in 88-90, the ruthless conqueror in 91-93 and then the tragic victim. There was Little Mo, BJK was the bubbly Miss Moffitt in 1961 and Tracy, Chrissie and Andrea were the cute prodigies on their débuts as well. Evonne remained the darling throughout her career but is probably the only one (Bueno, maybe?) - and that because she never dominated the game in the way that the others did.

At that time Monica's star quality was seized upon. Steffi and Arantxa didn't have it (I think Steffi acquired a mystique later in her career, though) and Sabatini had been around for a while. She was the new face.

Can you imagine being a 17-19 year-old and facing a hounding press demanding your views about the political situation in your home country, knowing that whatever you say will be splashed across every newspaper front page? Monica had the misfortune to find herself in the position of being the most famous serb at a horrifyingly violent and painful moment in her country, which was made all the more difficult by her Vojvodina origins.
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 08:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Andy T
LOL about the Gabor reference, Alfa. Do you remember the picture of Zsa Zsa on my kitchen wall with the classic line:
"How many husbands have I had - you mean apart from my own?"?

Joana, I found your comment about people hating Yugoslavia very touching; I can only echo HanaFanGA's reply and send you the warmest and most sincere of greetings:
:-) dobrodoshla

I think that Monica went through the same stages in her reception by the media as most upcoming greats - she was the cute teenager and the bright new talent in 88-90, the ruthless conqueror in 91-93 and then the tragic victim. There was Little Mo, BJK was the bubbly Miss Moffitt in 1961 and Tracy, Chrissie and Andrea were the cute prodigies on their débuts as well. Evonne remained the darling throughout her career but is probably the only one (Bueno, maybe?) - and that because she never dominated the game in the way that the others did.

At that time Monica's star quality was seized upon. Steffi and Arantxa didn't have it (I think Steffi acquired a mystique later in her career, though) and Sabatini had been around for a while. She was the new face.

Can you imagine being a 17-19 year-old and facing a hounding press demanding your views about the political situation in your home country, knowing that whatever you say will be splashed across every newspaper front page? Monica had the misfortune to find herself in the position of being the most famous serb at a horrifyingly violent and painful moment in her country, which was made all the more difficult by her Vojvodina origins.
Very good points, and yes, I do remember the Zsa Zsa pic, dahling! I agree wholeheartedly with your review of what Seles was going through pre-stabbing. I can't remember any of the players ever indicating that they didn't like her- to the contrary- she has always been, as Chris Evert so succinctly put it "one of the girls"- spending time with several of the other top players in the locker room and going on shopping sprees, etc.- always a cheerful, good natured player who herself you'd be hard-pressed to find a negative or derogatory quote from her. I felt very sorry for her situation with Croatia/Serbia at the time, because it was a no-win situation, and I think she did the most intelligent thing by choosing not to deal with it in the press room.

Joana- great thread! Thanks!
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 08:45 PM   #8
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Hvala Andy T!

I've been searching around the Internet for some old Monica articles a lot recently. I was a huge Monica fan back then - crazy kid But I can't remember many details anymore. I can't remember her talking in Serbian for example and I watched a lot of interviews she gave for our TV. I recall Wimbledon '92 final very well and how our commentator went on and on about the grunting affaire. Of course, the propaganda made it another "the world against Yugoslavia" situation.

Thanks a lot, guys!
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 08:47 PM   #9
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A few corrections first: Monica NEVER grunted when she hit a drop shot. Then Monica had the Serbian citizenship, she wasn't asked about Croatia. The whole situation was confusing as she was of Hungarian origin, having to play for the Serbs as the part in Yugoslavia she was born was a Serbian area, but waiting for American citizenship, wanting to play as "stateless" (Wimbledon 92) while other players wanted her to play for Croatia.

As for the popularity, she was very popular from 88 to 90 (as Andy mentioned already) but as her career went on so perfectly press and crowds where watching for weak spots and basicaly choose the grunting to pick on - that peaked in Wimbledon 92 when press conferences included nothing but the grunting issue, and everybody was picking on it every day, throughout the fortnight, and eventually it did put her off Me, I always turned up the volume when she played, to me the grunting emphasised her aggressive play and fighting spirit. It couldn't be loud enough

Especially in 91 Monica was unpopular in the States, they had Capriati then, the "real" American youngster. It became better in 92,93, the crowd usually rooted for her opponent, but hey, they always support the underdog against the no. 1. It was just that she had that reputation of being unpopular.

Joana, have you got some stories about Monica's popularity in Yugoslavia? I know that when she played the US Open final in 91 the streets there were empty cause EVERYBODY was watching it on TV. She was the sportswoman of the year at age 12(!) for the first time in Yugoslavia. They simply adored her.

In her prime Monica didn't spend much time in locker room or at the grounds. She was the first on the practise courts very early in the morning, came back for her match and left after the press conference and interviews which she loved to do and did very professionally - after wins as well as after losses.
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Old Apr 13th, 2004, 09:01 PM   #10
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She was extremely popular indeed. The stabbing was a national tragedy - I clearly remember people sobbing on the streets as they gathered to show support to Monica. Everybody felt so terrible, and people were sending flowers to Monica in her hospital in Germany - big thing as people barely had enough money for food. She was "our little Mo", I doubt any other female athlete will ever have that kind of support and love of Serbian people.

And she wasn't popular just in Serbia. I read a story that the first day of war in Sarajevo half of the city was watching her match.
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Old Apr 14th, 2004, 12:25 AM   #11
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The grunting did irritate me a bit too, I must admit. There are places and contexts where grunting is highly appropriate, even desireable (or exciting!), but not non-stop on a tennis court. That said, I don't blame Monica. It was certainly a mechanism of hers, and one which had maybe been installed in her from an early point.
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Old Apr 14th, 2004, 04:41 AM   #12
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Did Monica really ask $10000 for interviews at one point?
That sort of rumours appeared in the media that I read (and yeah that was mostly German )

oh and the grunt never annoyed me, but then how much Monica did I see. Outside when she played Steffi or at slams but only a little, because I had to share the tv with my family and it was already nice that I always allowed to watch Steffi (not that they had another choice )
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Old Apr 14th, 2004, 01:14 PM   #13
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P.S.- I have a few matches on tape in which Monica hit a drop shot and grunted even louder than on her regular groundies (one match is against Martina Navratilova in 1991), just in case anybody is really that interested in reviving the grunt issue. It never bothered me much, just as it doesn't bother me when I play someone who is loud like that. Hell, if you focus on the ball, it doesn't really matter if the opponent is ripping their clothes off in the middle of a point- you are there to concentrate on what you're doing, not them. Every top player had their little tactics- Graf had an annoying habit of walking away from the receiving position and going for a towel when she was holding a break point against an opponent ("that's Steffi's tactic"- Monica Seles 1992). Sabatini, Capriati, and Sanchez Vicario were all VERY annoying with their dancing and skipping all over the place while their opponent was preparing to serve- to the point where on clay they'd actually shuffle their feet to make distracting sounds. Monica not only didn't grunt when she practiced or warmed up (where she hit much harder than in matches), but she sometimes DID grunt on dropshots. It's called gamesmanship, and all top players had it to a certain degree. It's okay to admit it. No crucifictions are planned to my knowledge.
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Old Apr 14th, 2004, 05:05 PM   #14
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Interesting to hear about Monica's popularity in Yugoslavia. I'm a little curious as to how people reacted when she returned to the game as a U.S. Citizen. Were you disappointed, but understand why she did it? What's really the view of her now in that region?

I remember reading, perhaps on this board, that when Goran was asked a question about Monica during Wimbledon '92, he mentioned he wouldn't dance with her at the ball if both of them won the title.
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Old Apr 14th, 2004, 07:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
P.S.- I have a few matches on tape in which Monica hit a drop shot and grunted even louder than on her regular groundies (one match is against Martina Navratilova in 1991), just in case anybody is really that interested in reviving the grunt issue. It never bothered me much, just as it doesn't bother me when I play someone who is loud like that. Hell, if you focus on the ball, it doesn't really matter if the opponent is ripping their clothes off in the middle of a point- you are there to concentrate on what you're doing, not them. Every top player had their little tactics- Graf had an annoying habit of walking away from the receiving position and going for a towel when she was holding a break point against an opponent ("that's Steffi's tactic"- Monica Seles 1992). Sabatini, Capriati, and Sanchez Vicario were all VERY annoying with their dancing and skipping all over the place while their opponent was preparing to serve- to the point where on clay they'd actually shuffle their feet to make distracting sounds. Monica not only didn't grunt when she practiced or warmed up (where she hit much harder than in matches), but she sometimes DID grunt on dropshots. It's called gamesmanship, and all top players had it to a certain degree. It's okay to admit it. No crucifictions are planned to my knowledge.
@ Sabatini, Capriati and Sanchez Vicario dancing and skipping all over the place.

Imagine Capriati twirling like a ballerina while recieving serve from Aranxta before Sanchez Vicario screams, "Vamos!"

I created a similar thread nearly a year ago in this forum, where some interesting comments were also made.
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