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Old Sep 16th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #3766
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
Missing an easy putaway is missing an easy putaway, you shouldn't miss it against anyone. If you're missing it against top players and not against scrubs, then it's all in your head. She was inpatient, wanted to finish it as soon as possible, so she was overhitting or making poor shot selection. That's how I saw it.
And why is that? Because she gets a lot less chances of having those shots against top players.. and is not totally secure about being aggressive as its not what she is working on. So it combines to make her more anxious and erractic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
In 2009 and 2010 it was hurting a lot of people... who were in the crowd. They made adjustments for a reason, I have this crazy theory that coaches do some things for a reason, I don't think that Nigel is a deluded old man who thinks that Ana can play like Hingis, but when you get a player who is a mess atm, you must try to make her win some matches for a beginning. I don't think he wants her to play like that for the rest of her career.
So he went all the way rebuilding Ana's game on one way, just to get to the whole opposite way? That is what makes no sense. I'm not acusing Nigel of not meaning the best for Ana or working with no purpose. He probably thinks this is the best route for her game. As Morozova said.. this whole new style of play was his idea, and I'm sure he wants Ana to succeed. I happen to completely disagree. I know they will see the dead end one day.. I just hope its sooner than later. As I said, Ana hit her FH more aggressively and flatter at the USO.. hopefully they are already seeing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
I watched her against Dulko, Perry and I watched her in FC (live, unfortunately), so I have a slight idea what could've happened in that match.

I'm tempted to post all Ana's serve stats (including serve speed stats from slams) from the last 4 years. And to back them up with available match videos from YT. But it would be a useless effort, because you will find a way to dismiss all my arguments (), so I should probably save my effort and researching skills for the paper I'm writing atm. Those stats and videos are on the Internet anyway and everybody can see it in case someone forgot what her toss looked like and how many dfs she used to hit.
I think, if you have time, you should do it. From mid of 2010 to mid of 2011 Ana was serving much, MUCH better than she is now. And stats don't show placement and so on. Groundgame has been winning her matches this year, which wasn't at beginning of 2011.

I'm not discussing that from end of 2009 till mid of 2010 Ana's whole game was in shambles..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
What are they tinkering? I don't see it. It's not like she cut off some pace to get a higher 1st serve percentage. Her 1st serve percentage was horrible. What can be the reason for that? The lack of practice is the only thing I can think of. Vacations in the middle of season can explain the lack of practice and they can be a reason for injuries (that make you unable to practice as well).
Ana has been having leg injuries since start of the season.. Its the lack of fitness and weak legs that lead to that. There was one in Sydney.. and then at IW.. and then at RG.. and then in Montreal..

As for the serve.. they are tinkering with it. Look at the position of her feet.. and then the elbow and then how she is stretching to reach the ball. Small tinkering, but tinkering all the same. She said herself she is working a lot on her serve.. its not just serving 10000000000000 balls.
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Old Sep 16th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #3767
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by Linguae^ View Post
Ana will shut Izzy up, chill out.
And I'm rooting for that!
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Old Sep 16th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #3768
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
The only two extremes in tennis are pushing and ballbashing, not a single top 50 player is exclusively one or another. When you say that Ana's playing style is completely opposite of what it should be, it's wrong because Ana's playing style is not an extreme in any way. She's still an aggressive player, not as aggressive as she could or should be, but when you say that it has to be MUCH different, for me it means that she should go to some extreme. I don't think that we disagree about her game as much as we have different ideas about the meaning of the words like: slight, much, opposite, bad, really bad, decent. These adjectives and adverbs are often used to describe personal judgement which really varies from person to person, so what is good for me can be average for you, but your usage of these words is quite something. That's why I asked if you ever got B+ in the school. I was a nerd tbh. So, for me, getting B+ was disappointing, terrible and I really thought that B+ was slightly better than C-.


Ok.. what I mean is this.. Imagine you are in the center of a crossroad. To go the game of averages route you need to turn right. To go the aggressive game route, you need to turn left. The further you go write the more passive you will become, until you reach pushing territory. The same with aggressive.. the further you go left the more aggressive you will be, until getting to ballbashing territory. Ana has turned right.. but she is obviously not at the end of that road, and she could never go because she just isn't fast enough to be a pusher even if she wanted to.. But she turned her back to the aggressive route and is going the opposite game way that she should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
Controlled aggression is the only way to do something. And controlled aggression is not an opposition to her "new style". I don't see that she's trying to have 0 winners and 0 UEs in her stats. She's still an aggressive player who should be more aggressive
Ana is not doing controlled aggression.. She is playing the game of averages.. controlled aggression means being aggressive when you have the chance to be. The most common thing in Ana's matches nowadays is having a chance to hit a FH and still choosing to just roll it back, keep the rally going. That's not controlled aggression.. that's the average route. And it has cost her a lot..

Its also about hiding her weapons.. Ana's FH cant hurt good opponents anymore.. and there is a reason for that.. its not only mental.. its because she has made it into an airy shot.. and she doesn't really go for it as she should. And when she does she gets erractic, because she isn't working on hitting the flat FH, but in being more consistent and in adding spin. That's not controlled aggression, as she is wasting chance after chance after chance of being aggressive even when the opportunity for it is right there in front of her.
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Old Sep 16th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #3769
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davodus View Post
She had a perfect mix of controlled aggression in 2007/08, and I'm with you...that's the kind of style that works best for her. She was patient with her backhand as a rally shot, she used to hit it pretty well deep with spin, and then she'd move around to crack the forehand. Now she has half that power and half that aggressive mentality I haven't read this whole conversation but this I agree with.

EDIT: Can I also add that her forehand now is too much arm and not enough body, she comes up around the outside of it too much and it's not nearly as technically good as it used to be, unless she is totally set and in the zone. It's a pretty big problem because like you say she's not using it when she gets the chances to go for a big flat shot, its just a spun shot now...so she has to work harder to win points then she becomes more clueless. Well I guess, maybe I'm wrong
Exactly right. Ana's FH is a lot less technically sound than it used to be, as it has suffered with so much tinkering.. As Ana said, the first thing Nigel told her when they started to work together was that they had to fix her FH. Add spin to it, not hit it as flat... And other coaches before tinkered with it as well.. Ana used to have one of the best techniques in putting her whole body into the shot while hitting her FH.. now she pulls back, so its too much arm. And since she pulls back, and tries to hit it with more air, its just not the weapon it used to be and its not used when there is a chance. Instead of having to hit 2 FHs to win a point, now Ana needs 5 or 6, and barely any top player will let her hit as many.

She did hit it with more conviction and aggression at the USO.. hopefully it improves from now on somehow.
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Old Sep 16th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #3770
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by azdaja View Post
no offense izzy. the way you've been painting it, the future looks very dark. there are no positives to take since ana has taken the "average" route. and all that.

we all know that ana of 2007/08 was much better and we also all know she won't come back in that shape.


I never said there are no positives to take.. and I'm just stating my opinion that this route Ana chose for her game hides her weapons and gives her a dead end, limits her possibilities as for as level of play goes.. which is a pity for such talented player.

I know 2008 Ana is dead and wont come back. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't try to play the game that best suits her, which is the only thing I'm discussing.

And this is a discussion that should never exist.. that it does shows that Ana is playing a brand of tennis different than whats her natural game.. Every player seem to know how they should play.. Ana is one of the few that goes one way and then another and then another.. then looks clueless on court. No wonder.. this has also contributed to having such loooong slump.. not really being certain of how she should play.

But if you don't want to understand what I'm saying and just wants to label it.. then fine.. what can I do..
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Old Sep 17th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #3771
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Izzy, I don't believe that anyone including herself thinks that she should be some weird counterpuncher. And, not only that she isn't, she also much more aggressive than an average passive player. I don't think that it's their plan. She just played a more safe game because she needed winning the matches and therefore her confidence back. She regained that confidence, but she's clueless when she's facing the best players. I don't think that before her match against Kim or Vika Nigel suggested her to keep the ball in play. No way he did that. No way! And about them practicing only junkballing... No way! If he's doing that, he's worse than some local tennis club coach, we know he's not. Let's be honest, Izzy. He knows about tennis more than we would learn in thousand years of following tennis. Watching tennis and playing tennis for fun is nothing compared to coaching pros. There's no way he can't see the thins that we see. He needed her to be consistent again, he must have a plan for the next step. If he doesn't, I'll be the first one to admit that he was no better than glorified club level coach. But, if he's not, suggesting that any of us noticed things that he didn't is not fucking possible. He actually knows her, coaches her, knows about her mindset, her demons and the weaknesses more than ANY FAN. If he doesn't, then he's really clueless, a glorified club level coach.

I'll post the stats about her serve these days, not today. I took a short look, it really looks like it's regressed since Rome. Not before that.

And don't at Aždaja, he loves arguing with the girls on this board, it's his weakness. But this is the first time after many months that I agree with him. We should celebrate it, it doesn't happen often.
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Old Sep 17th, 2012, 06:05 AM   #3772
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
Izzy, I don't believe that anyone including herself thinks that she should be some weird counterpuncher. And, not only that she isn't, she also much more aggressive than an average passive player. I don't think that it's their plan. She just played a more safe game because she needed winning the matches and therefore her confidence back. She regained that confidence, but she's clueless when she's facing the best players. I don't think that before her match against Kim or Vika Nigel suggested her to keep the ball in play. No way he did that. No way! And about them practicing only junkballing... No way! If he's doing that, he's worse than some local tennis club coach, we know he's not. Let's be honest, Izzy. He knows about tennis more than we would learn in thousand years of following tennis. Watching tennis and playing tennis for fun is nothing compared to coaching pros. There's no way he can't see the thins that we see. He needed her to be consistent again, he must have a plan for the next step. If he doesn't, I'll be the first one to admit that he was no better than glorified club level coach. But, if he's not, suggesting that any of us noticed things that he didn't is not fucking possible. He actually knows her, coaches her, knows about her mindset, her demons and the weaknesses more than ANY FAN. If he doesn't, then he's really clueless, a glorified club level coach.
I must be explaining myself horribly or you just don't get my point at all.

Nigel is remodelling Ana's game to what he thinks will be the best for it.. as Kardon did with the net rushing, for an example.. people have their opinions of what is an affective game and try to make their players play like that.. Kardon also knew Ana, coached her, was experienced.. but can you honestly say Ana should play netrushing after every shot? Look.. Nigel and Ana probably think this is the most effective style of game and that she should play like this.. but this is not her natural game, and this ends up limiting her potential and hiding her weapons, rendering her game useless against top opposition. They will both realize that sooner or later, as she fails to beat a top player time and again and again and again...

Now.. please.. I never said Nigel's plan is to make Ana a weird counterpuncher or that their plan is to be passive. Their plan is to be aggressive within the average game.. but Ana gets caught up and is unable to be aggressive when the opponent is faster, smarter, more consistent and robbs her of time on her FH. And then when she has the chance to be aggressive, she is too earger to take it knowing its a rare chance, and becomes erractic.. mostly working on consistency and adding spin and air to her shots also doesn't help her cause when she needs to hit flat FHs.. Playing an unnatural game usually leads to these consequences.. And Ana's serve is not a weapon right now, I think we agree with that.. she relies on her FH alone to be a weapon, and when she hits it airy, trying to put spin and rally with it, its just not a weapon either. Weaponless players cant hurt players with weapons.. and all top players have at least one. Ana should be playing a game that actually makes her weapons shine, not one that hides them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
I'll post the stats about her serve these days, not today. I took a short look, it really looks like it's regressed since Rome. Not before that.
Its been getting worse since last year... And not only stats will tell.. For an example.. Ana wasn't serving all that well at AO, if you look at placement, speed, damage it did.. but her stats look quite good.. mostly because she faced crap returners who would make anyone look like Karlovic. So they would return Ana's serve without getting into an advantage in the point, making the ground game decide it.

Then when Ana faced Kvitova, who isn't really a good returner at all, but who is a good player, her serve looked awful. It was already, but crappy returners can give good numbers. Its just been degenerating since last year.. which has become more obvious since Rome as Ana's 1st serve percentage started to fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
And don't at Aždaja, he loves arguing with the girls on this board, it's his weakness. But this is the first time after many months that I agree with him. We should celebrate it, it doesn't happen often.


Look.. fine.. we disagree.. its all obvious in this 10 page discussion. We'll see what the future holds.. hopefully Ana, Nigel and you all prove me wrong.
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Old Sep 18th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #3773
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

looking ahead to the Fed Cup final...
http://anaivanovic.com/pressandinter...orld-interview
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Old Sep 19th, 2012, 12:44 AM   #3774
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Ana, please play something, shut these arguments up.
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Old Sep 19th, 2012, 12:51 AM   #3775
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Venus has been announced to compete at Hopman Cup. So we already know one of the players Ana might face.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/spo...hopman-galaxy/
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Old Sep 19th, 2012, 01:44 AM   #3776
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by gaviotabr View Post
Venus has been announced to compete at Hopman Cup. So we already know one of the players Ana might face.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/spo...hopman-galaxy/
Oh great So now it's three seasons in a row where she gets spirit breaking losses from her masters. Justine in Perth in 2011, Kim this year in Brisbane and now Venus wants in
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Old Sep 19th, 2012, 01:46 AM   #3777
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

I would die if Novak doesn't play HC and she gets stuck with Janko instead
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Old Sep 19th, 2012, 01:52 AM   #3778
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by Hurricane Ana View Post
Oh great So now it's three seasons in a row where she gets spirit breaking losses from her masters. Justine in Perth in 2011, Kim this year in Brisbane and now Venus wants in
Hopefully US gets put in another group.

Though Ana's lonely win against her masters came against Venus in Australia..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Ana View Post
I would die if Novak doesn't play HC and she gets stuck with Janko instead
I wouldnt worry about that.. Ana only plays this tournament because Novak loooooooves it SO much. According to him he asked Ana to play with him every year since 2006.. If Novak were to drop out, which I dont think he would.. I doubt Ana would play this tournament at all.
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Old Sep 19th, 2012, 01:52 AM   #3779
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by Hurricane Ana View Post
I would die if Novak doesn't play HC and she gets stuck with Janko instead
I don't think she would play with him. They were both very clear about that. Novak said he'd only play mixed doubles with Ana and Ana said he was her favorite mixed doubles partner. Besides, the only one who would decide not to play is Ana. For Novak, HC was always a lucky charm and they are all superstitious.
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Old Sep 19th, 2012, 01:55 AM   #3780
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by gaviotabr View Post
Hopefully US gets put in another group.

Though Ana's lonely win against her masters came against Venus in Australia..



I wouldnt worry about that.. Ana only plays this tournament because Novak loooooooves it SO much. According to him he asked Ana to play with him every year since 2006.. If Novak were to drop out, which I dont think he would.. I doubt Ana would play this tournament at all.
Yes but it was Melbourne not Perth, Ana is too supersticious

Official H2H is wrong anyways, in my mind Ana beat Kim both in Miami 11 and Brisbane 12, and she beat Venus this year in Miami Now when she chokes a lead against Serena I'll count that too
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