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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #3706
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linguae^ View Post
Izzy, don't misunderstand me, but you're so overreacting and your attitude is so negative.
It can go so much better from here, be hopeful.
Thanks for the compliment! Why am I overreacting though? We are just having a healthy debate in which not all parts agree.. I do think it can go so much better, that's why I don't think now is MUCH better than before.. just slightly.
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #3707
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
According to some posters, she was never anything but a top 20 player. She had a cake draw in 2008 when she won RG, she made the AO final because Dani choked, she reached Wimbledon SF because Vaidisova choked, another RG final because Sharapova was injured and a RG quarterfinal because Mauresmo felt too much pressure. And, yes, JJ and Kuznetsova are her bitches, that's why she won Berlin, IW etc.

If you add her USO draw to that, you can make her whole career look like a joke.

It's really the same type of excuses. Caro is slumping, Kuznetsova was injured, Marion was dying. You make her best results this season look like a joke, just like some GM posters make her whole career look like a joke. She's not playing her best tennis ever, but whatever she's been doing this year worked for her.
Thanks! Now I'm an Ana GM hater!

You know very well I disagree with all those arguments.. Ana was once a great player.. pity she hasn't been able to follow on her promise.

And I'm not making anything look like a joke. I just have my feet glued to the ground and in my honest opinion, this year was slightly better, but not much better than the past 3. And I think that exactly because I know Ana can be MUCH better.. and this is not it.

Edit: For the record, IMHO Ana should beat Caro, Sveta and Marion, from those you mention in this post, every single time. They are not relevant wins.. and she had wins over them in 09, 10, 11.. when Ana beats Kvitova, or Sharapova, or Vika, or even Kerber.. then we can talk about anything related to MUCH better. Ana is perfectly capable of it if she ever goes back to playing actually well.
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #3708
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by azdaja View Post
and who says that "players ranked 11 through 20" is a valid bracket? or that tennis seasons are the only valid periods for comparison? ana started to improve when she hired nigel, so the whole process started last year when ana was a barely top 20 player while right now she is just outside of top 10. that's not the same bracket at all as far as i'm concerned. she needs some good results in order to get into top 8 but once she manages to do it she is bound to stay there for a long time, even you agree with that. that's simply considerably better than what ana had over past 4 years, not only a little. she missed a great opportunity at rg, that's sure, or she might have already been there. but to my mind she is a player who is now challenging for top 8, not a player hanging around the #20 spot.
We can just agree to disagree.. Ana's improvement under Nigel has come in homeopatic doses and snail pace.. its slightly better, not much better. It would be much better if she was top 8, but she isn't.. she is barely top 12. 11-20 is top 20, and that's what Ana has been for most part of the past 4 years.. now slightly better as she is on the top part of top 20. 3 good tournaments out of 15 played, without a single final to her name, cant be MUCH better than anything. There is a lot of things Ana is still doing obviously wrong, and that hold her back.. no fitness, no physio.. bad schedule.. so on.. once she actually takes that next step, enters top 8, if she ever gets her head out of her ass to make the necessary adjustments, then it will come to MUCH better. For now its just slightly..
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #3709
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by gaviotabr View Post
We can just agree to disagree.. Ana's improvement under Nigel has come in homeopatic doses and snail pace.. its slightly better, not much better. It would be much better if she was top 8, but she isn't.. she is barely top 12. 11-20 is top 20, and that's what Ana has been for most part of the past 4 years.. now slightly better as she is on the top part of top 20. 3 good tournaments out of 15 played, without a single final to her name, cant be MUCH better than anything. There is a lot of things Ana is still doing obviously wrong, and that hold her back.. no fitness, no physio.. bad schedule.. so on.. once she actually takes that next step, enters top 8, if she ever gets her head out of her ass to make the necessary adjustments, then it will come to MUCH better. For now its just slightly..
you want her to actually have results but that's only one side of the coin. i look at a combination of both her results and her ability and the improvement was not slight. once she gets the results to speak for her it won't matter what we think. to my mind ana entering the top 8 won't be any improvement whatsoever on her current form actually. that's why i say that i'm looking only on how she does against big players. most importantly i think ana is on the upward trajectory no matter how slowly.

but even so, again "players ranked #11 through 20" is not a valid bracket imo. the really relevant places are the ones which determine your seeding, not the ones that result in the multiple of the number of fingers we have on both hands. being barely #12 is considerably better than being somewhere between #17 and 32. finishing the year close to #10 is considerably better than finishing it close to being #20 which was ana's standard in recent years.

it doesn't mean i don't think things could be even better but that's a matter of patience and thinking whether the glass is half full or half empty.

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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #3710
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Quote:
Originally Posted by azdaja View Post
you want her to actually have results but that's only one side of the coin. i look at a combination of both her results and her ability and the improvement was not slight. once she gets the results to speak for her it won't matter what we think. to my mind ana entering the top 8 won't be any improvement whatsoever on her current form actually. that's why i say that i'm looking only on how she does against big players. most importantly i think ana is on the upward trajectory no matter how slowly.
Not really.. I look at results and I look at level of play.. and in both I think the improvement is slight, in homeopatic doses and snail pace.

I do think her getting to top 8 is rather far, both in results and in level of play, because to get there she will have to beat the top players. I don't think Ana is playing well enough or believes enough to do just that right now. Its easy to forget she lost 60 60 to Vinci not too long ago. USO was a good tournament, even a breakthrough, but she had lost in the 4th round in years she was playing better tennis.

As I said.. there is no problem in disagreeing. And I don't think what we think ever really matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azdaja View Post
but even so, again "players ranked #11 through 20" is not a valid bracket imo. the really relevant places are the ones which determine your seeding, not the ones that result in the multiple of the number of fingers we have on both hands. being barely #12 is considerably better than being somewhere between #17 and 32. finishing the year close to #10 is considerably better than finishing it close to being #20 which was ana's standard in recent years.

it doesn't mean i don't think things could be even better but that's a matter of patience and thinking whether the glass is half full or half empty.
Again.. we disagree. I think 11-20 is a very valid bracket... top 20 players. And if we are talking about seeding, the worst possible seeding bracket within the top 20 is 13-16. Its better to be 17 than 16 in terms of slam draws.

Finishing the year 12 is just slightly better than finishing the year 17 IMHO, which was Ana's year end ranking in 2010, for an example.

I don't think this is a matter of seeing glass half full or half empty..
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #3711
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Originally Posted by gaviotabr View Post
Not really.. I look at results and I look at level of play.. and in both I think the improvement is slight, in homeopatic doses and snail pace.

I do think her getting to top 8 is rather far, both in results and in level of play, because to get there she will have to beat the top players. I don't think Ana is playing well enough or believes enough to do just that right now. Its easy to forget she lost 60 60 to Vinci not too long ago. USO was a good tournament, even a breakthrough, but she had lost in the 4th round in years she was playing better tennis.

As I said.. there is no problem in disagreeing. And I don't think what we think ever really matters.
if ana starts beating top players she could become a gs contender, not just a top 8 player. her loss to vinchi proved to be irrelevant by what came after it.

and what we think does matter a bit. this is the biggest forum for women's tennis in the world and plenty of people read it, including journalists.


Quote:
Again.. we disagree. I think 11-20 is a very valid bracket... top 20 players. And if we are talking about seeding, the worst possible seeding bracket within the top 20 is 13-16. Its better to be 17 than 16 in terms of slam draws.

Finishing the year 12 is just slightly better than finishing the year 17 IMHO, which was Ana's year end ranking in 2010, for an example.

I don't think this is a matter of seeing glass half full or half empty..
11-20 is based on numbers that have a 0 within them which is fairly useless. as for the rest, being ranked #17 is better than being ranked #16 only if you can back it up. which ana couldn't in the past but could now. a significant improvement. and ana's end ranking in 2010 was helped by some things she surprisingly did at the end of the year. no surprise this year. which is a pleasant surprise. and also not only a little.

the most important thing, though, is that if ana starts beating top players she will be a gs contender, not an average top 20 player (according to you) or a potential top 8 (according to me). now, that would be a huge step. it doesn't mean the one she has already made was little, though.
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #3712
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

In Tokyo, she can lose to: Azarenka, Sharapova, Li or Kerber (considering that Serena is not there). Others she should beat and I think that it will happen.
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #3713
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Quote:
Originally Posted by azdaja View Post
if ana starts beating top players she could become a gs contender, not just a top 8 player. her loss to vinchi proved to be irrelevant by what came after it.

and what we think does matter a bit. this is the biggest forum for women's tennis in the world and plenty of people read it, including journalists.

11-20 is based on numbers that have a 0 within them which is fairly useless. as for the rest, being ranked #17 is better than being ranked #16 only if you can back it up. which ana couldn't in the past but could now. a significant improvement. and ana's end ranking in 2010 was helped by some things she surprisingly did at the end of the year. no surprise this year. which is a pleasant surprise. and also not only a little.

the most important thing, though, is that if ana starts beating top players she will be a gs contender, not an average top 20 player (according to you) or a potential top 8 (according to me). now, that would be a huge step. it doesn't mean the one she has already made was little, though.
Ana wont get to top 8 by reaching only round of 16.. So its either beating top players (which is who she faces at that stage) to go deep into tournaments, so she can make the next step, get to top 8 and go into MUCH better territory. Or just being top 15 and slightly better. Ana could also get to top 8 by whoring tournaments, but we know she won't do that. If she starts beating top players, it still wouldn't mean she could be a grand slam contender. Kerber has beaten tons of top 10 players this year, but she didn't really contend for a slam title. That is yet another step. I do think that getting to top 8 and beating top players is a necessary step to be able to try to take the contending at slams step.

Look.. we completely disagree.. like 100%.. its ok. Happens.
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #3714
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Look.. we completely disagree.. like 100%.. its ok. Happens.
closer to the half full half empty glass thing than you want to think but ok. also a very stupid attitude regarding the rest ot the tournaments.

so, no.
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #3715
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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In Tokyo, she can lose to: Azarenka, Sharapova, Li or Kerber (considering that Serena is not there). Others she should beat and I think that it will happen.
She's now quite self-confident so,who knows, maybe she'll pull a surprise win over one of those players. She seems to be a lot more confident, calm and driven which is the state of mind ideal for scoring some big wins & titles.It's a shame she did not face someone other than Serena at US Open because if that had happened maybe she'd get even further than QF.

Also, I think that she realises that she does have a limited amount of time to get those results considering her age. She's approaching the magic 27 and for many players this is the time when their career starts to slow down...[/quote]
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 09:17 PM   #3716
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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closer to the half full half empty glass thing than you want to think but ok. also a very stupid attitude regarding the rest ot the tournaments.

so, no.
So no?

Stupid attitude regarding rest of the tournaments? How so? Don't think I was talking about that..
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #3717
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Thanks! Now I'm an Ana GM hater!
I never said you were, I'm just saying that it's typical GM point of view. If you can't beat Serena or Sharapova, you're irrelevant. #10, #15, #25, who cares, they are all irrelevant peasants. And if you manage to reach top 5, but can't win a slam and/or beat Serena, you're irrelevant and disgusting vulture, opportunist etc.

After horrible slump she had, saying that she slightly improved is kinda cruel. And those brackets are not that good. World #10 is still very far from #1, not much closer than #12 really. Marion has 600 points more than Ana, while Ana has 1335 points more than #20. Of course, #51 has 200 points more than #59. In that case, if you start the season as #59 and finish it as #51, it's a slight improvement, but the closer you are to top, it matters much more. Ana finished last season ranked #22. If she magically stays on #12, the slight improvement will be 10 ranking spots.

By the way, she's not old.
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Old Sep 12th, 2012, 09:31 PM   #3718
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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I never said you were, I'm just saying that it's typical GM point of view. If you can't beat Serena or Sharapova, you're irrelevant. #10, #15, #25, who cares, they are all irrelevant peasants. And if you manage to reach top 5, but can't win a slam and/or beat Serena, you're irrelevant and disgusting vulture, opportunist etc.

After horrible slump she had, saying that she slightly improved is kinda cruel. And those brackets are not that good. World #10 is still very far from #1, not much closer than #12 really. Marion has 600 points more than Ana, while Ana has 1335 points more than #20. Of course, #51 has 200 points more than #59. In that case, if you start the season as #59 and finish it as #51, it's a slight improvement, but the closer you are to top, it matters much more. Ana finished last season ranked #22. If she magically stays on #12, the slight improvement will be 10 ranking spots.

By the way, she's not old.
At least I'm not a GM hater..

How is Ana that relevant on tour? She has reached as many or less QFs or better this year than in 09, 10, 11.. I don't agree with those GM points of view.. but if you barely reach QFs, and most of your tournaments are early losses, you are just not really relevant for the tour as a whole. Ana can be relevant, which is more than can be said about 90% of the tour.

Look, we disagree.. its ok.
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Old Sep 13th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #3719
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

Izzy, did you ever get B at school? My guess is that you didn't.
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Old Sep 13th, 2012, 12:35 AM   #3720
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Re: ~Ana's articles~

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Izzy, did you ever get B at school? My guess is that you didn't.
I dont know.. We dont use that kind of grades here.

I've actually always wondered.. what does A mean? Here its just 0 to 10, each question in an exam is worth X ammount of points.. like 1 point or half a point.. and it adds up to 10, that being the maximum. At university there was the SS/MS/MM/MI/II kind of grades.. but it was like.. SS is 9 to 10, MS is 7 to 8,9, MM 5 to 6,9, MI 3 to 4,9, and II 0 to 2,9.
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