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Old Jun 28th, 2006, 08:44 PM   #1
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Mexico Election 7-02-06 - going left?

Mexico will vote for a new President on July 2nd.

The left wing candidate is leading, but, not by much.
The right wing candidate has been gaining.

Calderon v. Obrador.

Obrador is the socialist, but, not as bad as Chaves
dictator style politics. He is the anti-Fox, anti-Salinas,
anti-PRI candidate. Very appealing, charismatic, and
a little loopy. Promising everything under the sun for
the working poor, which is most of Mexico.

Should be interesting.

He has said he thinks illegal immigration to the USA
is a disgrace for Mexico. I agree. But, he's not against
people going to the USA for work. I don't quite figure
how that meshes.

Anyway, I'll assume he'll win.

He'll probably fail like all the other Mexican presidents
have in changing the nation. A nation with oil and
minerals, and a hard working population, beautiful
landscape, should do better than it does.

He is not anti-American.
He is pro-socialism.

He has not embraced Morales or Chaves in his
speeches, so that's good. But,it could just be
he's biding his time until he wins.

Fox and Chaves hate each other.

It will be interesting to see how Americans who live
in Mexico are treated or how their property is treated:
as Americans can't really own property outright there.
Will American companies no longer feel welcome there?
Will they close up their border companies and move to
Central America or Asia?

Personally, I don't think his election will have a huge
shift in American policy with Mexico. We pretty much
bend over backwards to help their govt.'s and illegal
aliens, and they pretty much hate us.

Salinas was a crook. He can't even go back to Mexico.
Fox has been a disappointment.
Unemployment is up. Drug cartels are rampant.
Illegal immigration is way up. What did Fox do?

I can see how they'd vote for a new party and a new
guy. The PRI still controls the nation up and down.
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Old Jun 28th, 2006, 10:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsung101
Mexico will vote for a new President on July 2nd.

The left wing candidate is leading, but, not by much.
The right wing candidate has been gaining.

Calderon v. Obrador.

Obrador is the socialist, but, not as bad as Chaves
dictator style politics. He is the anti-Fox, anti-Salinas,
anti-PRI candidate. Very appealing, charismatic, and
a little loopy. Promising everything under the sun for
the working poor, which is most of Mexico.

Should be interesting.

He has said he thinks illegal immigration to the USA
is a disgrace for Mexico. I agree. But, he's not against
people going to the USA for work. I don't quite figure
how that meshes.

Anyway, I'll assume he'll win.

He'll probably fail like all the other Mexican presidents
have in changing the nation. A nation with oil and
minerals, and a hard working population, beautiful
landscape, should do better than it does.

He is not anti-American.
He is pro-socialism.

He has not embraced Morales or Chaves in his
speeches, so that's good. But,it could just be
he's biding his time until he wins.

Fox and Chaves hate each other.

It will be interesting to see how Americans who live
in Mexico are treated or how their property is treated:
as Americans can't really own property outright there.
Will American companies no longer feel welcome there?
Will they close up their border companies and move to
Central America or Asia?

Personally, I don't think his election will have a huge
shift in American policy with Mexico. We pretty much
bend over backwards to help their govt.'s and illegal
aliens, and they pretty much hate us.
Salinas was a crook. He can't even go back to Mexico.
Fox has been a disappointment.
Unemployment is up. Drug cartels are rampant.
Illegal immigration is way up. What did Fox do?

I can see how they'd vote for a new party and a new
guy. The PRI still controls the nation up and down.
Fist of all Roberto Madrazo is still in the running.

López Obrador"peje" has promised lots of things(example. inmediatley he assumes the presidence the salary will raised to all .everydoby is going to win more) and more stuff that I don't think he will be able to do. He has lot of support of the poor people" el pueblo" lets say.

I don't think he will be a good president with him I'm sure that we will ahev another crisis I don't want that.

Felipe Calderon seems to be the good one first of all he is from PAN (the same as Fox) and to continue under the regime of PAN will be good to see if it really works.

Fox couldn't do much 'cos the fucking senate didn't aloud him to do anything. and also PRI has governated México for 75 years and Fox was the first president that wasn't involved with PRi.
And its hard to change or fix all the shit that PRI did during all those years of goverment and its impossible to do it in 6 years.

México is a country that posseses good oil,minerals(the place where I live is the most important miner center of México) and also in friut, vegetables and trigues etc etc etc,
the problem is we don't use the money correctly.

Fox and Chaves hate each other yeah you are rigth but Chaves is with Z not with S its CHAVEZ .

Sálinas de Gortari is a son of a bitch but he still can be in México he has been here several times since his goverment ended.

and Finally..........................
Inmigrant alliens chingas a tu madre¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡lacra.
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Old Jun 29th, 2006, 03:53 AM   #3
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Lopez Obrador wasn't very successful as the mayor of Mexico City. I don't really want him, he's too left and I don't want a rift between the USA and Mexico. But, I can't support Calderon because he's too conservative for me.

I do like Patricia Mercado. I hope she does well.
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Old Jun 29th, 2006, 08:53 AM   #4
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I hope Mexico turns to the left, something has to be done to stop the psychotic dictator George W. Bush.

Here in Canada the perception is that we are moving to the right, but really it isn't. The BQ and the NDP, both leftist parties combined for 30% of the vote in the last election. the liberals, more centrist (although I think their current incarnation is quite right) got about 30% and another centrist party the Greens got 5%,while the Conservatives got 35%. Considering the huge scandal, and the fact that the conservatives still only got a slim minority, and I think the trend in North and South America is to the left.
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Old Jun 29th, 2006, 03:04 PM   #5
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I agree that things need to go left, but having a person in control of Mexico who is anti-USA would not be a good thing for any of our three countries.
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Old Jun 29th, 2006, 03:30 PM   #6
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It is a good thing the Mexican people are voting in
an election that has choices. PRI controlled Mexico
for 60 or 70 years. It still controls much of the political
structure in the country. But, the two leading candidates
are not of the PRI party, and that's a big deal. Fox
did open the door to other political choices at the
presidential level. Very unheard of in Mexico.

It's supposed to be too close to call. But, Obrador
has led for the past several months, and he will
likely win. The other guy has been catching up
because he pointed out more and more what a
left wing and erratic figure Obrador is, and will be.

Personally, I think he's more talk than action. Mexico
can't get away doing what Bolivia and Venezuela are
doing, nationalizing industries, and being strongly
anti-American. Too many ties between the two nations.
Without American funds and friendship, it would falter.
Ditto for Canada's relationship with Mexico.

If he gets Mexican citizens to finally look upon illegal
immigration as the disgrace it is, good. Stay home and
fix your own nation. Otherwise it will never change and
get better. Why should it change when it uses illegal
immigration as a means to avoid making improvements.

Fox used illegal immigration as a formal govt. policy.
Charismatic, anti-Chaves, and on good terms with Bush.
His legacy.

However, he didn't do much good while in office.
Chiapas still is cloudy (and bloody), unemployment
is high, birth rate is high, dropout rate is high, illegal
immigration is encouraged to help the nation survive,
and they are the #5 oil producer & still not a world
power w/clout, and their soccer team lost to Argentina
in the World Cup. Not to mention the drug cartels
cutting off heads and hands and legs all around Mexico
in bigger numbers.
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 05:11 PM   #7
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Obrador says it was rigged.
3 million votes not counted!
Cheating is rampant!

OK. If you say so.
Sounds like RFK Jr. in Ohio.

Problem with this is the Mexican govt. insisted
on the type of tight identity verification and
registration it regularly tells America not to do
over here, to verify citizenship.

Outside observers say there were areas of
a few problems here and there, a few lines
longer than expected, some places did run out
of ballots due to huge crowds. But, nothing
that smells of intentional fraud to sway an election.

Mexico had several hundred thousand workers
to check for fraud and problems for days.

It is close. Too close to finish it off. But, Calderon
seems to be holding to a 1% or half a million
vote lead after several days.

Today is the first legal count tally. After today,
they will have another legal recount. It's never
happened before, but, they have a set of laws
to see it through.

All in all, Mexico should be proud it had an election
with three candidates, and it ran smoothly. No
riots. No assaults. None of the mayhem that
was predicted. Give them a lot of credit for having
a safe and largely secure election.

I think Calderon will hold on. He came across as the
voice of reason and moderation, as opposed to the very
left wing Obrador. Calderon played on that fact: how
far left do you want Mexico to go? No that far evidently.

Still, neither man got more than 38% of the vote....so,
whoever wins, a lot of people in Mexico did not vote for
him.
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 06:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conchi Party
I hope Mexico turns to the left, something has to be done to stop the psychotic dictator George W. Bush.

Here in Canada the perception is that we are moving to the right, but really it isn't. The BQ and the NDP, both leftist parties combined for 30% of the vote in the last election. the liberals, more centrist (although I think their current incarnation is quite right) got about 30% and another centrist party the Greens got 5%,while the Conservatives got 35%. Considering the huge scandal, and the fact that the conservatives still only got a slim minority, and I think the trend in North and South America is to the left.
Bush is not a dictator.

Liberals never believe they lose elections. It's always stolen from them by super-secret vast right wing conspiracies.
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 06:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesFan70
Bush is not a dictator.

Liberals never believe they lose elections. It's always stolen from them by super-secret vast right wing conspiracies.

No, only in the 2000 election.

And he's not a dictator. He's like... a watered-down fascist! Makes occasional threats to our civil liberties but usually nothing too serious or credible (or nothing that can't be uncovered by the New York Times).
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 06:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conchi Party
I hope Mexico turns to the left, something has to be done to stop the psychotic dictator George W. Bush.

Here in Canada the perception is that we are moving to the right, but really it isn't. The BQ and the NDP, both leftist parties combined for 30% of the vote in the last election. the liberals, more centrist (although I think their current incarnation is quite right) got about 30% and another centrist party the Greens got 5%,while the Conservatives got 35%. Considering the huge scandal, and the fact that the conservatives still only got a slim minority, and I think the trend in North and South America is to the left.
Right now the conservatives are doing well , if they keep on going like this they are all set for a majority next election
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 07:30 PM   #11
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The (by law, not requested extra recount) recount
is underway, and the media is very happy, Obrador
has a slight lead with about 35% of precincts counted...
I thought it was supposed to be 3 million!

Oh well...

From what I've seen, Univision and Telemundo are
thrilled with this. They weren't too happy w/the Calderon
lead. Not that they have any bias or anything.

The two menwill probably end up close again in the
official recount.

But, with all laws for a close election followed, it is likely
this will drag out until early August. Each man, ahead
or behind, can ask for more counts and investigations.
I doubt either will give that up if they are behind. Look
for more of the Florida style rants to come out. It should
be fun if nothing else.

Obrador wins, he can't be as liberal as he would like
to have been with a big majority. Nor can Calderon be
as conservative as he'd like to be w/only 37% of the
vote.

If the PRI party had not run a candidate, likely Calderon
would have picked up the votes there. Calderon has more
in common with PRI than Obrador.

I still think Calderon will pull it out. The Obrador had
a huge lead in the polls for months, until the last couple
of months. People started to doubt him and his politics.

Again, no matter who wins, look at the percentage.
Neither man got over 38% of the vote, more like 37%.
Meaning, whoever gets in, does so with about 60% of
the citizenry against him. Neither guy has the personality
of Fox either.

I'm pleased no violence or mayhem either. Mexican
govt. is growing up.
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 07:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesFan70
Bush is not a dictator.

Liberals never believe they lose elections. It's always stolen from them by super-secret vast right wing conspiracies.
Sorry, but the election was stolen from Gore by the Supreme Court. Gore not only got about 500,000 more votes in the country, but he DID win Florida.

Sorry if that's hard for you to swallow, but you'll get over it.
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 07:41 PM   #13
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Lopez Obrador threatening protests if they declare him the loser is so ridiculous. Why did he bother participating in the election? If he wanted to start a revolution he should have done so. What a poor, poor candidate.
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 08:06 PM   #14
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This is pretty funny. About 2.5 million ballots
were not counted due to inconsistencies, such
as they were not legible, ballots not marked
correctly, no identification, etc. In other words,
the usual type of thing that keeps a ballot from
being counted the first time, or at all in a recount.

But, they'll go w/the 'count every vote' mantra.
Even though that should be count every legal vote.
I assume some of our best American legal political
campaign teams are down there working with both
men to spin this thing.

Stocks are down with Obrador taking the lead,
in Mexico. That's not good news for workers.
Business will suffer under an Obrador presidency.
That only hurts workers, who will come to the USA
in bigger numbers. Great. More illegal aliens who
hate America,but, want to work here.


I foresee more of the Fox types of policies, lots of
talk, little action. Which is okay with Bush,and any
future president. More of the same in Mexico,
do nothing govt.

With any luck, the House bills will go nowhere on
immigration, and they'll keep holding silly public
hearings. Oh, they look so shocked to hear people
complain about illegal aliens, with good reason, facts,
and pictures of bad results. Gee, you mean, it's
not racism that keeps people from supporting amnesty?
No, it's decline in the quality of schools, neighborhoods,
home prices, job wages for legal citizens, and increases
in crime in high illegal alien neighborhoods. Other than
that, it's just great stuff.
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Old Jul 5th, 2006, 08:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelissaTorresFan
Sorry, but the election was stolen from Gore by the Supreme Court. Gore not only got about 500,000 more votes in the country, but he DID win Florida.

Sorry if that's hard for you to swallow, but you'll get over it.
If Algore had won Florida, he would've become president. And I'm not the one still bitter.

And we all know that the Electoral College elects the president (based on the popular vote), and this works because the founding fathers didn't want larger states with large populations to be able to control the country. Brilliant I tell ya!
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