Alice Marble - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Oct 4th, 2004, 04:18 AM   #1
country flag RoanHJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 409
RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough
Alice Marble

This is a thread dedicated to Alice Marble. I'm going to start with some of her tournament wins. I don't have them all yet but hopefully in time I'll get them. You'll notice is some matches I don't have the score. That's because in some of the papers, especially the ones from the 20s I couldn't find them. This is a work in progress and so it's a bit messy in spots ,please, forgive me. Anyway, Alice or "Allie" as her friends called her was a great player and now we can start to take a look at the real Alice Marble


Alice Marble's Slam, Wightman Cup, Tournament records and Rankings :

Golden Gate Tennis Club June 1928
Third Class

Note: I *think* this is the first tournament Alice plays. She's a junior and all of 14 years old.

1st Round Marble d Harriet Hart-default
2nd Round Marble d Jean Milligan 6-4,6-3
Semifinal Marble d Janet Smith-default

1928 California State Championship Sept. 8, 1928

Under 16

2nd Round: Marble d Barbara Mount 6-4, 6-3
Quarterfinal: Marble d May Doeg 6-3, 6-2
Semifinal: Helen Marlowe d Marble 6-3, 6-2

Hardcourt:

Weisel d Marble 6-3, 6-1

1929 Results

Pacific Coast June 9, 1929

1st Round: Marble d Ida Cross 0-6,7-5 6-4
2nd Round: Marble d Hester Wilson 6-2, 4-6,6-2
Quarterfinal: Meloy d Marble

Under 15

1st Round: Marble d Leontine Brizart 6-0, 6-0
Final: Marble d Betty Wheatley 7-5, 6-1



1930 Results:
July 16, 1930, Vancouver B.C.

Finals: Miller d Marble

Doubles: Alice is playing with Dorothea Perrow

Vancouver B.C. July 24th Western Canadian Tennis Championships

Marble d Marie McNab 6-1, 6-0
Final: Marble d Charlotte Miller

Marble captures girl's title: Marble d Carolyn Fringress 6-1, 6-3

Pacific Coast 1930

Sept. 28, 1930

1st round: Marble d Mary Nejedley 6-0, 6-1
2nd round: Marble d Emily Kinney 6-1, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Betty Turner 6-3 6-1
Semifinal: Marble d Mary Callendar 8-6, 6-0
Final: Marion Hunt d Marble 7-9, 6-3, 6-3

1931 Results:

1931, California State Championship Singles

First Round: Marble d
Second Round: Marble d Harriet Pell 6-0, 6-0

Marble d Dorothea Perow 2-6, 6-1, 6-2
Semifinals: Marble d Golda Meyer Gross 7-5, 6-1

Finals: Marble d Dorothy Weisel 8-6,4-6, 6-4

East Hampton, New York: (Aug. 3, 1931, New York Times pg 23)

Round: Mrs D. C. Shephered-Barron d Alice Marble 6-3, 6-4


Rye, New York: ( Aug. 9, 1931)

2nd Round: Alice Marble d Charlotte Miller 6-1, 7-5

Josephine Cruickshank d Marble 5-7, 7-5, 6-2


Philadelphia Girl's National Championship: (Sept 8, 1931)
1st Round: bye

2nd Round: Alice Marble d Marjorie LeBoutiller 6-0, 6-0

3rd Round: Marble d Marion Wood 6-1, 6-2

Quarters: Marble d Elizabeth Keating 6-3, 5-7, 6-2

Semis:

Final: Ruby Bishop d Marble 6-1, 6-4

Note: Bishop is coached by Eleanor Tennant. After this, Alice goes to Eleanor and ask her to be her coach.



US National 1931

1st round: Mary Greef (Kansas City) d Marble 6-2, 6-2

1932 Results:

Del Monte June1932

1st round Marble d Mary Jane Foster–default
Semifinal: Marble d Mary Callender 6-2, 6-4
Final: Marble d Marion Hunt 6-3, 6-0



California State Championship June 19, 1932

1st round: Marble d Peggy Salisbury 6-0, 6-1
2nd round: Marble d Theodosia Smith 6-2, 6-0
Quarterfinal: Marble d Wheeler 6-4, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Dorothea Swartz 6-3, 6-2
Final; Marble d Edith Cross 6-0, 6-1


US Nationals 1932
1st round: Marble d Palfrey 6-8, 6-4, 6-2
2nd round: Ridley d Marble 3-6, 6-4, 6-3

Pacific Southwest (September 16,1932)

Note: First time Alice plays this event

2nd round: Marble d Theodosia Smith 6-2, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d Dorothy Robinson 6-1,6-0
Quarterfinal: Marble d Sarah Palfrey 7-5, 6-0
Semifinal: Marble d Van Ryn 6-2, 12-10
Final: Harper d Marble 10-8, 6-3


Pacific Coast Sept. 26, 1932

1st round: Marble d Maria McPherson 6-0, 6-1
2nd round: Marble d Gracyn Wheeler 6-1, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Helen Zabriskie 6-0, 6-2
Semifinal: Marble d Caroline Hirsch 6-3, 6-1
Final: Marble d Anna Harper 6-2, 6-2
.

1933 Results:

Ojai Valley Tournament April 27, 1933, 38th annual
1st. Round: Marble d Catherine Ramelli 6-1, 6-1
2nd Round: Marble d Dorothy Anderson 6-0, 6-0
Semifinal: Marble d Elizabeth Deike 6-4, 1-6, 6-4
Final Round: Marble d Cruickshank 1-6, 6-4,6-1

Southern California Tennis Championships May 1933

Note: Fourth oldest tournament in the US

1st Round: Marble d Theodosia Smith 6-3, 7-5

Quarterfinal: Marble d Bartosh 6-3, 6-4

Semifinal: Dimitrijevic d Marble 8-6, 10-12, 7-5

Note: Match lasted 3 hours and 15 minutes

Brookline, Massachusetts

1st.: Marble d Edith Betts 6-0, 6-2
2nd: Marble d Otillie Gaertner 6-1, 6-2
3rd:. Marble d Esther Bartosh 6-0, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Eunice Dean 6-2, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Palfrey 6-4, 6-2
Final: Marble d Carolin Babcock 6-3, 6-4

Manchester, Massachusetts
July 17, 1933 Essex Country Club


2nd round: Marble d Helen Jones 6-1, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d Florence Le Boutillier 6-0, 6-1
Quarterfinal: Marble d Bonnie Miller 6-1, 6-0
Note: Match over in 16 minutes
Semifinal: Marble d Cruickshank 6-4, 6-4
Final: Marble d Babcock 7-5, 6-3

Seabright July 24, 1933
1st round: Marble d Clare Prentice 6-0, 6-1
2nd round: Marble d Bonnie Miller 6-2, 6-2
3rd round: Palfrey d Marble 6-2, 6-0

East Hampton, Long Island July 30, 1933

2nd round: Marble d Criuckshank 6-4, 6-2
Semi round: Marble d Van Ryn 6-3, 6-8, 6-1
Final: Betty Nuthall d Marble 5-7, 6-3, 6-0

US Nationals 1933

1st Round: Marble d Margaret Cluett 6-0, 6-1

2nd Round: Marble d Virginia Rice 6-0, 6-1
3rd Round: Marble d Carolyn Swartz 6-0, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Nuthall d Marble 6-8, 6-0, 7-5

Note: 1933, US National, Jacobs, Marble and Babcock all wear shorts. If Alice had beaten Nuthall in the quarters she would have played Helen Wills next.


Pacific Southwest Sept. 16, 1933

2nd round: Marble d Charlotte Edwards 6-0, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d E. Faulkenberg 6-0, 6-0
Quarterfinal: Marble d Van Ryn 7-5, 3-6, 6-4
Semifinal : Marble d Carolin Babcock 6-1, 6-2
Final: Round d Marble 6-2, 6-2

Pacific Coast Oct 1, 1933
1st round: Marble d E. Walter 6-0, 6-0
3rd round: Marble d M. Hunt 6-1, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Elsie Gabel 7-5, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Mary Heeley 2-6, 6-2, 6-3
Final: Marble d Round 6-4, 6-1


1934 Results:

This is the year Alice collapsed in Paris.



1935 Results:

California State Champion Ship 1935:


Note: This is Alice's first tournament after her collapse in Paris
June

1st Round: Marble d Carol Stevens 6-0, 6-1
2nd Round: Marble d Helen Davis 6-0, 6-1
3rd Round: Marble d Dorothea Swartz 10-8, 6-0
Quarter finals: Marble d Elsie Gabel 6-0, 6-0
Semis: Marble d Gussie Raegener 6-2, 6-3
Final: Marble d Margaret Osborne 6-4, 6-3


1936 Results:

Southerrn California Championship May 1936

1st round: Marble d Betty Clark

Marble d Teodosia Smith 6-1, 6-3

Final Round: Marble d Bundy 6-2, 6-4

Brookline, Massachusetts

Note: This is Alice's first east coast tournament since her illness two years earlier.


2nd. Marble d Esther Edwards 6-0, 6-1
Quarterfinal: Marble d Theodosia Smith 6-2, 6-1
Semifinal: Marble d Bundy 3-6,6-0, 7-5
Final: Marble d Carolyn Roberts 6-1, 8-6

I * think* this may be Seabright but I'll have to check.

1st : Marble d Lila Porter 6-3, 6-0
2nd : Marble d Dorothy Bundy 7-5, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Florence Le Boutillier 6-0, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Wheeler 6-2, 6-0
Final: Marble d Carolin Babcock 6-0, 6-3

Rye, New York

2nd. Marble d Olga Kallos 6-1, 6-2
3rd : Marble d Evangelina McLennon 6-2, 6-2
Quarterfinals: Marble d Dorothy Workman 6-4, 7-5

Semifinal: Sylvia Henrotin d Marble 6-1, 8-6


Manchester, Massachusetts

1st. Marble d Isabel Lawrence 6-0, 6-0
2nd : Marble d Esther Edwards 6-2, 6-1
3rd : Marble d Carolin Mabley 6-2, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Henrotin 6-2, 6-1
Semifinal: Marble d Palfrey 4-6, 6-3,7-5
Final: Jacobs d Marble 6-3, 0-6, 6-4

Brookline, Mass. National Doubles Championships

2nd. Marble/Stammers d Norma Taubele/ Elizabeth Blackman 2-6, 6-2,6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble/Stammers d Virginia Rice Johnson/ Katherine Winthrop 6-2, 6-2
Semifinal: Jacobs/ Palfrey d Marble/Stammers 6-2, 21-19


Notes. Headline NYT "Miss Jacobs Victor After 40-game set" Aug. 28, 1936 pg 13 "for forty games the two teams fought tooth and nail in a dead locked battle."

US Nationals 1936:


1st. Round: Marble d Patsy Hiller 6-1, 6-0
2nd Round: Marble d Anne C. Parry 6-0, 6-2
3rd Round: Marble d Katharine Winthrop 8-6, 6-3
Quarter finals: Marble d Gracyn Wheeler 6-2, 11-9
Semis: Marble d Helen Paderson 6-1, 6-1

Final: Marble d Helen Jacobs 4-6, 6-3, 6-2

Pacific Southwest 1936:

1st round: Marble d T. Boyd 6-0, 6-2
2nd round: Marble d J. Stanton 6-2, 6-2
3rd round: Marble d Bixler 6-1, 6-2
Quarter: Marble d Dr. Esther Bartosh
Semi: Marble d Midge Van Ryn 2-6, 6-3, 9-7
Final: Wheeler d Marble 7-5, 2-6, 6-4


1937 Results:

Surrey Championships (England May 18)

1st Round: Alice Marble d G. Maynard 6-0, 6-0

2nd Round: Marble d Jean Creagh (Ireland) 6-3, 6-2

Quarterfinals: Marble d Pat Thompson 9-7, 5-7, 6-2

Semi: Marble d Margot Lumb 6-4, 6-0

Final: Freda James d Marble 6-4, 6-0

Notes: Alice's first trip to England. First tournament in England


Middlesex Championships (England May 25)

1st Round: Bye
2nd Round: Marble d J. M. Notley 6-1, 6-0
3rd Round: Marble d R. Jarvis 6-3, 6-1
4th Round: Marble d S. G. Chuter 6-4, 6-0
Semifinal: Marble d M. Whitmarsh 6-3, 6-0
Final Round: A. Lizana d Marble 9-7, 9-7

Notes: In both sets Marble was within one point of winning the set.
Times of London, May 31, 1937 Pg 8

St. George's Hill Tournament (England June)
1st Round: Marble d J. A. Burrit 6-2, 6-0
3rd Round: Marble d M. E. Lumb 6-4, 3-6, 6-4
4th Round: Marble d B. Nuthall 6-3, 6-2
Semifinal: Marble d M.R. King 6-1, 6-4
Final Round: J. Jedrzejouska d Marble 3-6, 6-4, 6-3

Kent Championships (England)
1st Round: Marble d S. Stoney 6-1, 6-0
2nd Round: Marble d S. Henrotin 3-6, 6-1, 6-1
3rd Round: Marble d R. M. Hardwick 6-1, 3-6, 6-4
Semifinal: Marble d M. R. King 6-4, 6-3
Final Round: J. Jedrzejowska d Marble 6-1, 9-11, 6-1

Notes: Marble made 4 successive finals in England and lost in all of them. Two to J. Jedrzejowska from Poland.

Wimbledon 1937


2nd Round: Marble d R.M. Hardwick 9-11, 6-4, 6-3
3rd Round: Marble d W. M.. Lincoln 6-1, 6-0
4th Round: Marble d M. R. Couquerque 6-0, 6-2
5th Round: Marble d S. Sperling 7-5, 2-6, 6-3
Semifinal: Jedrzejowska d Marble 8-6, 6-2


Seabright
1st. Round: Marble d Millicent Hirsch 6-1, 6-2
2nd Round: Marble d Eleanor Dawson 6-0, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Helen Pederson 6-1, 4-6, 6-1
Semifinal : Marble d Van Ryn 9-7, 6-1
Final : Marble d Jedrzejowska 6-3, 5-7, 8-6



Rye ( New York, Aug. 8, 1937)


2nd Round: Marble d Barbara Scott 6-1, 6-0
Quarterfinals: Marble d Jane Stanton 6-1, 6-1
Semifinals: Marble d Henrotin 6-2, 6-0

Finals: Jedrzejowska d Marble 7-5, 6-4

Notes: Alice's 4th loss to Ja Ja for the year.3,000 fans watch final. "Largest tennis gallery in the history of the club." Played at Westchester Country Club. NYT, Aug. 15, 1937, Sec 5, pg. 1, Allison Danzig, "Miss Marble weakened under the pounding of the Polish champion's jolting forehand..." Begins playing doubles with Sarah Palfrey.

US Nationals 1937:


1st Round: Marble d Jacqueline Horner 6-3, 7-5
2nd Round: Marble d Catherine Wolfe 6-1, 6-2
3rd Round: Marble d Margot E. Lumb 6-1, 7-5
Quarter finals: Dorothy Bundy d Marble 1-6, 7-5, 6-1

1938 Results:

St George's Hill May 30th
1st round: Marble d Lady Doreen Pleydell Bouverre 6-0, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d G. Hoahing 6-2, 6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d O. Craze 6-0,6-2
Semifinal: Marble d Jedrzejowska 6-2, 6-3
Final Round: Marble d E. Heine Miller 6-3, 6-4




Wimbledon 1938


2nd round Marble d Cootes 6-0, 6-0
3rd round Marble d S. Piercey (South Africa) 6-4, 6-0
Note: Both Marble and Piercey were hitting the ball hard.
4th round Marble d Hardwick 7-5, 6-4
5th round Marble d R. Mathieu 6-2, 6-3
Semifinal: Jacobs d Marble 6-4, 6-4
Note: Jacobs match was on June 30, 1938


U.S. National 1938
1st round: Marble d Catharine Sample 6-1, 6-0
2nd round: Marble d Eunice Dean 6-2, 6-0
3rd Round: Marble d Dorothy Stevenson 6-1, 6-4
Quarterfinal: Marble d Stammers 6-8, 6-1, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Fabyan 5-7, 7-5, 7-5

Note: A horrible rain storm hit New York City and Alice had to wait six days before she could finally play her semi match. Originally planned for Sept. 17th they finally played on Sept 23rd.
Final: Marble d Nancye Wynne 6-0, 6-3

Note: From here on out Alice will do undefeated





1939 Results:

Kent Championship Beckenham

2nd Round: Marble d Lady Rowallan 6-0, 6-1
3rd Round: Marble d J. Nicoll 6-3, 6-8, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d V. E. Scott 6-4, 6-3
Final: Marble d Stammers 6-3, 6-1



Wimbledon


2nd round Marble d J. S. Kirk 6-3, 6-3
3rd round: Marble d H. W. Austin
5th round: Marble d Jedrzejowska 6-1, 6-4

Semifinal: Marble d Sperling 6-0, 6-0

Note: Times described match between Marble and Sperling as "sheer murder" July 7, 1939 pg 5

Final Marble d Stammers 6-2, 6-0



Irish Championships
July 16, 1939

Final: Marble d S. Noel 6-2, 6-4

Doubles: Marble/Noel d C.F. Myerscough/N Stoker 6-2, 6-3


East Hampton, Long Island
Aug 1, 1939

1st round: Marble d Virginia Marsh 6-1, 6-1
2nd round: Marble d Mary L. Johnston 6-0, 6-0
quarterfinals: Marble d Betz 3-6,6-1, 6-4
semifinals: Marble d Dorothy Workman 6-3, 6-1
Final Marble d Jacobs 7-9, 6-4,6-0

Note: Alice also won in doubles with Sarah Palfrey and mixed with Bobby Riggs. Completes the triple Crown
.



Rye, New York

Aug 6, 1939 1st round bye
2nd round: Marble d Cecilia Riegel 6-0, 6-0
3rd round: Marble d Valerie Scott 6-2, 6-1
Quarterfinal : Marble d Mary Arnold 6-1, 6-1
Semifinal: Marble d Rene Mathreu 6-3, 7-5
Final: Marble d Palfrey Fabyan 6-4, 6-4


U.S. Nationals 1939

1st round: Marble d Mercedes Madden 6-1, 6-2
2nd round: Marble d Dorothy Wightman 6-0, 6-0
3rd round: Marble d Nuthall 6-0, 6-2
4th round: Marble d Hardwick 6-3, 6-8, 6-2
Semifinal: Marble d Wolfenden 6-0,6-1
Final: Marble d Jacobs 6-0, 8-10,6-4



1939, Pacific Southwest Singles

Second Round: Marble d Peggy Kerr: 6-1,6-2

Semi: Marble d Virginia Wolfenden: 6-3, 3-6, 6-0


Final Marble d Dorothy Bundy: 9-7, 6-1



1940 Results:


National Clay Court Championship (Chicago) June 15

Semi: Alice Marble d Virginia Wolfenden 6-2, 3-6, 6-4
Final: Marble d Wheeler 7-5, 6-0



Cincinnati Tri-
State June 25


1st Marble d Dorothy Henkel 6-0, 6-1
Marble d Arnold 6-2, 6-1
Semi: Marble d Bernhard 6-3, 1-6, 7-5
Final: Marble d Wheeler



Indianapolis, Indiana, Western Tennis

July 11th:

Marble d Mary Ann Davis 6-1,6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Jane Wagner 6-0, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Arnold 6-1, 6-3
Final: Marble d Wolfenden 6-2, 8-6

Maryland State Championship, Baltimore Country Club

1st round: Marble d Frances Matthal 6-1, 6-1
2nd round: Marble d Raymond 6-0, 6-1
Quarterfinal: Marble d Hope Knowles 6-1, 6-1
Semi: Marble d Valrie Scott 6-3, 7-5
Final: Marble d Betz 4-6, 6-4, 6-0


Rye, New York

Aug. 4th 1st round: Marble d Gerry Mallory 6-2, 6-0
2nd round: Marble d Argyel P. Rice 6-2, 6-0
3rd round: Marble d Louise Brough 6-2, 6-4
Quarterfinal: Marble d Pauline Betz 3-6, 6-0, 6-2
Semifinal: Marble d Wheeler 6-2, 6-0
Final : Marble d Jacobs 6-1, 6-0

Manchester, Mass Essex Country Club

Aug. 13th

1st round: Marble d Louise Raymond 6-4, 6-4
2nd round: Marble d Anne Page 6-1, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d Helen Pederson 6-1, 6-0
Quarterfinal: Marble d Bundy 6-4, 2-6, 6-0
Semifinal: Marble d Palfrey 6-1, 6-3
Final: Marble d Betz 6-2, 6-2

US Nationals 1940
1st round: Marble d Barbara Strobhar 6-3, 6-4
2nd round: Marble d Josephine Sanfilippo 6-0, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d Rita Jarvis 6-3, 6-0
Quarterfinal: Marble d Helen Bernhard 6-2, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Valerie Scott
Final: Marble d Jacobs 6-2, 6-3

Wightman Cup Results: Bud Collins' Modern Encyclopedia of Tennis
1933

United States d Great Britain 4-3 (Forest Hills)

Helen Jacobs d Dorothy Round 6-4, 6-2
Sarah Palfrey d Margaret Scriven 6-3, 6-1


Betty Nuthall d Carolin Babcock 1-6, 6-1, 6-3
Dorothy Round d Sarah Palfrey 6-4, 10-8
Helen Jacobs d Margaret Scriven 5-7, 6-2, 7-5
Helen Jacobs/Sarah Palfrey d Dorothy Round/Mary Heeley 6-4, 6-2
Betty Nuthall/Freda James d Alice Marble/ Marjorie Gladman Van Ryn 7-5, 6-2

1937

United States d Great Britain 6-1 (Forest Hills)

Marble d Mary Hardwick 4-6, 6-2, 6-4
Helen Jacobs d Kay Stammers 6-1, 4-6, 6-4
Jacobs d Hardwick 2-6, 6-4, 6-2
Marble d Stammers 6-3, 6-1
Sarah Palfrey Fabyan d Margot Lumb 6-3, 6-1
Marble/Palfrey d Evelyn Dearman/ Joan Ingram 6-3, 6-2
Stammers/Freda James d Marjorie Gladman Van Ryn/ Dorothy Bundy 6-3, 10-8

1938

United States d Great Britain 5-2 (Wimbledon)

Stammers d Marble 3-6, 7-5, 6-3

Note: "Miss Marble unwisely spent the ten minute interval between the second and third sets sitting by the courtside in a chilly wind..." June 10th, Friday.

Moody d Scriven 6-0, 7-5
Fabyan d Lumb 5-7, 6-2, 6-3
Marble d Scriven 6-3, 3-6, 6-0
Moody d Stammers 6-2, 3-6, 6-3
Marble/Fabyan d Lumb/James 6-4, 6-2
Dearman/Ingram d Moody/Bundy 6-2, 7-5




1939

United States d Great Britain 5-2 (Forest Hills_

Marble d Hardwick 6-3, 6-4
Stammers d Jacobs 6-2, 1-6, 6-3
Scott d Fabyan 6-3, 6-4
Marble d Stammers 3-6,6-3, 6-4
Jacobs d Hardwick 6-2, 6-2
Bundy/Arnold d Nuthall/ Brown 6-3, 6-1
Marble/Fabyan d Stammers/James Hammersley 7-5, 6-2


Years Ranked Number One....Bud Collins' Modern Encyclopedia of Tennis

USTA:
1936, 1937, 1938,1939, 1940

World Ranking Number One:

1939

Here's a picture of Alice when she was the 1931, California State Champion
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1931.jpg (25.2 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by RoanHJ : Oct 4th, 2004 at 05:54 AM.
RoanHJ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Oct 4th, 2004, 05:27 AM   #2
country flag RoanHJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 409
RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough
From 1940-1945, Alice Marble made numerous tennis exhibitions to raise money to support both the British and the Americans during World WarII. She raised support for War Bonds, the Red Cross and she and Eleanor "Teach" Tennant both supported the British Ambulance Fund in 1940.


On this one I don't have the exact year. But, I know that during this time period Don Budge wrote a letter to Hitler pleading that Gottfried von Cramm be released from prison. The Nazis had thrown him in prison after he refused to support the Nazi party. Alice was one of several sports figures to sign Budge's letter.

In August of 1944, Alice and Mary Hardwick went up to Harlem in NYC to play an exhibition at the Cosmopolitan Tennis Club. They were the first to top white women players to play tennis with two black men. The New York Times described this mixed doubles match as "curious."

In July of 1950, Alice Marble wrote a letter to the American Lawn Tennis Association. She called out the top USLTA officials on their blatant racism regarding Althea Gibson and asked:

"If Althea Gibson represents a challenge to the present crop of players, then it's only fair that they meet this challenge on the courts."




Other things Alice did:

1. She designed tennis clothes
2. She did radio. Even covering some football games
3. She worked as Assistant Editor to Wonder Woman Comics and wrote a "Women In History" series for the comic book.
4. Wrote her own autobiography Road To Wimbledon in 1946. And according to Louise Brough Alice did write it on her own.
5. Wrote numerous columns for the American Lawn Tennis Magazine. She also wrote for the New York Times Magazine and wrote several letters to the LA Times.
6. She appeared in the movie "Pat And Mike" and she did a short film for the "Passing Parade" short film series called "Tennis In Rhythm"
7. She also drove all across the United States giving lectures on "Will To win"

8. Alice coached some of the top players of the 50s-60s. Such as Tory Fretz and of course Billie Jean King. Alice never did marry nor did she have children but in an interview with a Palm Springs paper she talked about how much she enjoyed coaching children.

Here's a pic of Tory and BJK just two players she coached:





Below is a photo taken at the LA Tennis Club in 1940. It shows Alice with Florence Gilbert Burroughs the wife of Edgar Rice Burroughs who wrote Tarzan. Alice was also friends with many celebrities and famous writers of her generation. Alice herself loved to hanging out with the stars of her day.


Last edited by RoanHJ : Oct 10th, 2004 at 02:47 AM.
RoanHJ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4th, 2004, 06:09 AM   #3
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,612
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
Fantastic work Roan-


Question: Do we have an exact figure on how many consecutiver matches Alice won after the 1938 Nationals? She's likely to go down down as the last woman to be undefeated in a calendar year.
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4th, 2004, 01:26 PM   #4
country flag RoanHJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 409
RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Fantastic work Roan-


Question: Do we have an exact figure on how many consecutiver matches Alice won after the 1938 Nationals? She's likely to go down down as the last woman to be undefeated in a calendar year.

I know I don't. I know for example in 1940, she played in Atlanta but I don't know the exact date or who she played and what the scores were. So, I'm still trying to find that tournament. What I want to do now is start getting her doubles record together. I don't think she and Sarah lost in doubles that last year either.
RoanHJ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5th, 2004, 10:34 AM   #5
country flag chris whiteside
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,620
chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold
So then Roan or Rollo, how would you measure Alice in perspective to Lenglen, Betz, Connolly, Court, Graf?

I don't know much about this era and can only look at the records. She doesn't seem to have played much outside the States. In my book the best players are those who have won the French and Wimbledon or even the French and the US. After the Grand Slam I believe the greatest achievement is winning at RG and Wimbledon back to back because of the short time span between them and the total difference in surface. I see Alice only played at RG once and was beaten in the 2nd round. However, with no background knowledge until I read your thread, I now know she collapsed there and was out of the game until 1936. How did she rate on clay in general?

Obviously, looking at her early years the results were hardly impressive but like Althea Gibson she seems to have bloomed late in her career and she has this fantastic unbeaten run which only the war seems to have cut into. Was this the reason she turned pro?

Just how high would Alice rate among the all-time greats?
chris whiteside is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5th, 2004, 01:18 PM   #6
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,612
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
Here are some more results-

1931

Seabright July 27-??
1R Mrs. A. J. Lamme d. Marble 7-9 6-3 8-6

East Hampton, New York: (Aug. 3-7 1931)
1Rd: Bye



Doubles with Wiesel
1R bye
2R lost to Mudford/Nuthall 6-1 6-3.


Philadelphia Girl's National Championship: (Sept 8, 1931)
*Semis: Marble d. Hilda Boehm 6-0 2-6 6-2

Won doubles with Bonnie Miller



*Pacific Coast (late Sept to Oct 3)

??

QF d. Marian Hunt 6-2 6-1.

SF Edith Cross d. Marble 6-4 6-2.


Doubles with Weisel

??

SF d. Patsy McCoy/Dorothy Swartz 6-1 6-3.


Ends year ranked #2 nationally among girls behind Ruby Bishop.
******************************************
1932
*Eastern Grass, Rye [seeded 7] August 7-??

1R Bye
2R lost to Mrs. A. J. Lamme 3-6 6-2 9-7.

Doubles with Virginia Rice
1R d. Mary Cottman/Mary Gibbs 6-1 6-1.
2R d. Virginia Ellis/Marjorie Sachs 1-6 7-5 6-4.
SF Lost to Elsie Pittman/Joan Ridley (GB) 6-4 6-8 6-4

Mrs. Lamme was from Rye

US Nationals 1932
Comments from the NYT


Alice’s upset win over Sarah “overshadowed all other matches in the second round, and a good sized gallery remained until the last shot had been played.” At 6-6 Sarah broke after a grueling 18 point game, only to see Alice storm back as Sarah became “palpably nervous” after the intermission. In the next round Marble “virtually handed the match” to the English giel after the first set. At one point she loses 8 straight points on errors. Before the third set Joan was given coaching by her doubles partner Elise Pittman. 3 service aces couldn’t make up for the high error count.

Pacific Southwest (September 16 to Sept 25 ,1932)

Note: First time Alice plays this event


Quarterfinal: Marble d Sarah Palfrey 7-5, 6-0 *NYT reports score as 7-5 6-4*
Semifinal: Marble d Van Ryn 6-2, 12-10 *NYT reports as 6-3 12-10*
Final: Harper d Marble 10-8 6-3


Doubles with Harper

??
SF d. Cruickshank/Van Ryn 6-3 6-1
F Lost to Babcock/Palfrey 6-2 7-9 7-5.

Pacific Coast
Doubles with Golda Gross

??
F Lost to Cross/Harper 6-3 6-2.

Ranked #7 in the nation for 1932.







Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5th, 2004, 01:34 PM   #7
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,612
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
1940 Results:

May 6-12 Alice wins the Tennessee Valley Invitation mixed doubles with Bobby Riggs -opting out of the singles.

Atlanta invitation. (Clay) week of May 14.
1R Bye?
2R d. Mrs. S. Comer 6-1 6-3
QF d. Pat Canning 6-2 6-0
SF d. Gracyn Wheeler 6-0 6-2
F d. Virginia Wolfenden 6-3 6-3

Alice's first tournament ever on clay. She lost a match on read clay in 1934 during a US-France series. Marble was the star attraction in Atlanta. Marble also won the mixed-there was no women's doubles.


National Clay Court Championship (Chicago) June 15-23
1R ???
2R d. E. Shalala 6-3 6-1
QF: Mary Arnold 7-5 6-3
Semi: Alice Marble d Virginia Wolfenden 6-2, 3-6, 6-4
Final: Marble d Wheeler 7-5, 6-0

An entry of 32-so Alice's first round wasn't a bye. Marble's "inconsistency in clay court hitting duels" kept a couple of her matches close.

Doubles with Arnold
1R d. Corbel/Spauld 6-1 6-0
SF d. Canning/Wolfenden 6-1 6-0
F d. N. Brown/Hardwick 7-5 6-1.



Cincinnati Tri-State at Cincinnati. June 22-30

*Note: could the Henkel match be round two with Alice getting a first round bye?

1st Marble d Dorothy Henkel 6-0, 6-1
??
3rd: Marble d. J. Wagner 6-0 6-1
QF :Marble d Arnold 6-2, 6-1
Semi: Marble d Bernhard 6-3 1-6 7-5
Final: Marble d Wheeler

Doubles with Arnold
??
SF d. Canning/Wolfenden 6-3 6-2
F d. Borwn/Hardwick 7-5 6-4.

Alice is pushed to the limit by Bernhard, who has 6 match points! Alicew as "on the brink at 1-5 and 4 -5" with 3 match points saved in each game. "To Helen's credit, she did not give an inch and Alice had to win outright nearly all of the six points."Helen was unlucky she had played Pat Canning a long 3 set match earlier in the day-the Tri State schedule being backed up by rain. American Lawn Tennis confirms that her last singles defeat was Wimbledon of 1938.

As an aside-I would guess the rain contributed to slowing down Alice's game.



Indianapolis, Indiana, Western Tennis (Clay) -- July 8-15

1R Bye-?
2R Marble d Mary Ann Davis 6-1,6-2
Quarterfinal: Marble d Jane Wagner 6-0, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Arnold 6-1, 6-3
Final: Marble d Wolfenden 6-2, 8-6

Surface described as "green teniko" my guess would be that's close to har-tru. Won the mixed with Bobby Riggs. Wolfenden ran off 4 straight games from 2-5 to lead 6-5.

Maryland State Championship, Baltimore Country Club July 15-21

1st round: Marble d Frances Matthal 6-1, 6-1
2nd round: Marble d Louise Raymond 6-0, 6-1
Quarterfinal: Marble d Hope Knowles 6-1, 6-1
Semi: Marble d Valerie Scott (GB) 6-3, 7-5
Final: Marble d Betz 4-6, 6-4, 6-0

Doubles with Arnolf
1R ??
QF d. Bradley/Peterson 6-1 6-3
SF d. Bernhard/Brough 6-2 6-4
F d. Hardwick/Scott 7-5 6-4.

Valerie Scott charged the net in the semis-Alice's lobs often caught her.
In the final Pauline was "hitting hard off both sides and going to the net judiciously". All 3,500 seats were full for the finals of the women's doubles.

Seabright July 22 to 28 [Draw of 30]
1R Bye
2R d. Millicent Hirsch 6-1 6-2
QF d. Virginia Wolfenden 6-2 6-2
SF d. Sarah Palfrey 6-0 6-4
F d. Mary Hardwick (GB) 6-2 6-0

Doubles with Palfrey
1R Bye?
QF d. Andrus/Henrotin 7-5 6-1
SF d. Osbourne/Winthrop 6-3 6-2
F d. Arnold/Bundy 5-7 6-4 7-5.

After 2-2 it was all Alice in the final. Alice "played her best of the season" at this event as she shows off a new wrinkle to her game, changes of pace.




Rye, New York August 4-11

1st round: Marble d Gerry Mallory 6-2, 6-0
2nd round: Marble d Argyel P. Rice 6-2, 6-0
3rd round: Marble d Louise Brough 6-2, 6-4
Quarterfinal: Marble d Pauline Betz 3-6, 6-0, 6-2
Semifinal: Marble d Wheeler 6-2, 6-0
Final : Marble d Jacobs 6-1, 6-0

Doubles with Palfrey
1R Bye?
2R d. D. Hart/Sheer 6-2 6-3
QF d. Betz/Osbourne 0-6 6-0 6-2
SF d. Canning/Wolfenden 6-2 6-4
F d. Hardwick/Scott 6-4 6-3.

Manchester, Mass Essex Country Club

Aug. 13th

1st round: Marble d Louise Raymond 6-4, 6-4
2nd round: Marble d Anne Page 6-1, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d Helen Pederson 6-1, 6-0
Quarterfinal: Marble d Bundy 6-4, 2-6, 6-0
Semifinal: Marble d Palfrey 6-1, 6-3
Final: Marble d Betz 6-2, 6-2

Doubles with Palfrey
1R
2R
QF d. Brough/Madden 6-2 6-3
SF d. Betz/Osbourne 3-6 6-3 6-4
F d. Hardwick/Scott 10-12 8-6 6-3.

a 45 game doubles final.

US Doubles, Longwood August 25
1R Amory/Humphrey 6-0 6-1
2R d. Prizer/Rust 6-1 6-0
QF d. Lincoln/Malcolm 6-3 6-2
SF Canning/Wolfenden 6-3 6-3
F d. Bundy/Van Ryn 6-4 6-3

US Nationals 1940
1st round: Marble d Barbara Strobhar 6-3, 6-4
2nd round: Marble d Josephine Sanfilippo 6-0, 6-1
3rd round: Marble d Rita Jarvis 6-3, 6-0
Quarterfinal: Marble d Helen Bernhard 6-2, 6-3
Semifinal: Marble d Valerie Scott
Final: Marble d Jacobs 6-2, 6-3

Last edited by Rollo : Oct 5th, 2004 at 02:13 PM.
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5th, 2004, 02:10 PM   #8
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,612
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
Roan-I haven't forgotten about the 1940 clippings-will be sending them to you soon.
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5th, 2004, 02:21 PM   #9
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,612
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
She's 45-0 for 1940. 46 if we can find a second round at the Tri-State. I also counted her mystery win at the US Clay court.


This tallies with Bud Collins, who has her 1940 record as:

Singles: 45-0 (same as 1939) Won 9 of 9 events
Doubles: 27-0
Mixed: 11-0

To quote Collins, :she left intact a 22 tournament,111 match win streak, second only to Helen Wills 27-158 leading up to the 1933 US final.
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5th, 2004, 02:33 PM   #10
country flag RoanHJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 409
RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside
So then Roan or Rollo, how would you measure Alice in perspective to Lenglen, Betz, Connolly, Court, Graf?

I don't know much about this era and can only look at the records. She doesn't seem to have played much outside the States. In my book the best players are those who have won the French and Wimbledon or even the French and the US. After the Grand Slam I believe the greatest achievement is winning at RG and Wimbledon back to back because of the short time span between them and the total difference in surface. I see Alice only played at RG once and was beaten in the 2nd round. However, with no background knowledge until I read your thread, I now know she collapsed there and was out of the game until 1936. How did she rate on clay in general?

Obviously, looking at her early years the results were hardly impressive but like Althea Gibson she seems to have bloomed late in her career and she has this fantastic unbeaten run which only the war seems to have cut into. Was this the reason she turned pro?

Just how high would Alice rate among the all-time greats?

Chris, a few things you have to keep in mind about the 30s and 40s. First, the French was not as highly regard then as it is today. Alice skipped the French mainly because she wanted to play many of the small grass tournaments leading up to Wimbledon. Wimbledon was much bigger then the French at this time. So, to Alice it was more important. As far as defending and getting back to back Wimbledons, well, poor Alice couldn't do that because from 1940-1945 there was no Wimbledon. By then the War had broken out. So, Alice couldn't defend her title. Matter of fact, in fairness to players such as, Pauline Betz, there was no Wimbledon, French or Australian during these years. Players couldn't rack up those titles.

It's tough to compare Alice and Pauline. Alice holds a 3-0 head to head against her. But, Alice was ending her career and Pauline was just getting started. I think they would have had a great rivalry. Classic serve and volley against the speedy baseliner. Both women were tomboys so neither was afraid of really going for it on the court.

Alice won a National Clay Court title in 1940. I don't think you can really use the criteria of winning both the French and Wimbledon back to back during this time period. Hilda Sperling won a bunch of French Open singles titles and not one Wimbledon. As a matter of fact, Alice creamed Hilda at Wimbledon one year beating her 6-0, 6-0. Mathieu won several French singles titles and I can't find a Wimbledon singles title so far. Alice I'm pretty sure had winning records against both French singles winners. Of course that's on grass. Keep in mind, travel is a lot harder during the 30s. Btw, I don't think Bill Tilden ever won a French Open singles title and he's still tops most lists as a great player.

Now as to where she fits in. Well, this is just my opinion but ahead of her you would have Suzanne and Helen Wills up there. Steffi was much better and Martina Navratilova too. Chris Evert would have been better and also Maureen Connolly. Alice had shaky groundstrokes. I'd put Serena ahead of her. Alice was better then Althea Gibson so she would be ahead of her. I'd put her ahead of Pauline Betz too. Same with Brough and du Pont. But not Margaret Court. Court would go ahead of Alice. Monica, I'm not sure of. I think Alice would have beaten her at Wimbledon but at the US Open I think Monica would win.
RoanHJ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 5th, 2004, 02:55 PM   #11
Rollo
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,612
Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute Rollo has a reputation beyond repute
Chirs Whiteside wrote:
Quote:
Just how high would Alice rate among the all-time greats?
Tough one Chris. You picked out her greatest weakness IMO-her lack of a French title.

On the other hand she was a victim of circumstances just as much as say, a Mo Connolly or Monica Seles.

Many blamed the USTA for almost killing Alice when she was forced to play doubles with Helen Wills at Easthampton in 1933. She played 9 matches in 3 days-4 on the last day in blazing heat. She was threatened with all sorts of penalties if she refused. Alice collapsed in a heap afterwards. When she collapsed again on court in France in 1934 many blamed it on the events at Easthampton. Ironically that was Alice's only trip to continental Europe, ending a in default at the French.

Roan can give details of her recovery-it's a miracle she came back at all.

World War Two closed the door on what would surely have been more Wimbledons and a shot or two at the French.

1937 looks like a year when she missed her chances.

The real pity IMO is she blew it in 1938 vs. Helen Jacobs in the semis at Wimbledon. Had Alice won she would have faced Helen Wills in the finals. Beating Helen Wills at Wimbledon in their only career meeting would have upped Alice's stock tremendously. Plus with a Wimbledon title already in hand she could have felt free to play the French. The problem with the French was Wimbledon was a much bigger title, and switching fron clay to grass on such short notice was seen as just too much for most. In 1939 Alice's first priority was Wimbledom-and after 1939 the door was closed on the French.

She rated 3rd all-time in most books prior to Mo Connolly. Her devastating invincibility towards the end of her career will probably stand-I can't imagine someone these days appraching a 100 match win streak.

I'm not sure how high I'd put her-top 20 of all-time for certain, but also outside the ring of Graf, Navratilova, Evert. Court, Connolly, Lenglen, and Wills.

She'll best be remembered for her serve and volley, promotion of social causes, and being a personality.
Rollo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th, 2004, 06:56 AM   #12
tilden
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 103
tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice tilden is just really nice
This is a great thread. Thanks RoanHJ and Rollo. I tend to think that what is missing from the Marble resume compared to other greats is the longevity aspect - ie being at the top for a period of 5-6 years - which definitely means that Lenglen, Wills, Connolly (she would have been if she kept playing), Court, Navratilova and Graf should rank above her. A win over Jacobs in that 1938 Wimbledon semi would also have helped Alice's case. But reading through the records that you've prepared Alice's performances in 1936 and 1937 are a bit strange for someone who had such amazing natural gifts - I mean look at those losses to Jedrzejowska, and Freda James, and Dodo Bundy (good but not in Alice's class). In fact the records may show that Helen Jacobs has a stronger overall record than Marble - even though Alice was undoubtedly a better player! Interesting!
tilden is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th, 2004, 07:17 AM   #13
country flag chris whiteside
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,620
chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold chris whiteside is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoanHJ
Rollo, I'm still trying to get all of the facts straightened out on that whole thing. Right now here's what I know for sure:

Helen Jacobs wrote in "Gallery Of Champions" that shortly after Alice arrived in Paris she appeared ill and she was very homesick. I've read she had everything from pleurisy to tuberculosis. One paper said she had a "nervous breakdown." Right now I don't know for sure what happened.

Anyway, after her collapse Alice went back to New York where Teach Tennant met her and from there she went back to San Francisco. When she first arrived there she didn't appear that ill and told the press she was going to have, "A long loafing spell." She wasn't there long and eventually, she goes to LA, stays at a sanitarium which Teach pays for and finally she ends up living with Teach Tennant.


Alice collapsed in May of 1934. In June of 1935, she comes back and wins ( I think) her first tournament which is the California State Championship. She beats Margare Osborne in the final. After the match, some memebers of the San Francisco tennis community rip into Teach Tennant. The SF Chronicle reports:

"A debate approaching major proportitons has waged around Alice's condition and particularly around her new forehand drive, a stroke taught her by Miss Tennant."

Later,Teach and Alice plan to go east, but in July of 1935, The LA Times carries the headline, "'Alice Marble Forced to quit', Says Tutor" In the article Tennant goes on to say, " Alice Marble is in perfect health. She did not voluntarily retire from the game. She was forced out by the United States Lawn Tennis Association which did not want her to appear in the major eastern tournaments."

Sometime after this Alice and Teach move to Palm Springs where Teach starts working at the Racquet Club. In March of 1936, Alice beats Carolin Babcock at a tournament there. Later that year Alice finally heads east.
That's very interesting. I wonder whom we are to believe? It does seem that the USLTA of yesteryear was very old school tie and liked to control their players. In later years Darlene Hard and Karen Susman seemed to run foul of them. Nancy has said in her posts that they were more or less obligated to return to the States after Wimbledon rather than going on to the tournaments in Continental Europe.

It has always surprised me that for such a forward looking country it was mostly the opposition from the US (strongly backed by Italy) which delayed the introduction of Open Tennis. Britain and France were pushing hard for this from the late 50s.

Thanks to both Roan and Rollo for their analysis of Alice.

I would tend to agree with Rollo that the absence of a French title is a drawback although I accept that the big two titles were Wimbledon and Forest Hills. As Roan points out circumstances in those days were very different, especially with regard to travel - Australia is the prime example of that - even conditions in the late 50s and 1960s varied from the post-war era which in turn was different from the 30's.

I think possibly there is a British/European versus American split on this. While RG was regarded as the #3 Tournament in world terms the gap in prestige between them was considered much greater in the US than the rest of the tennis world. Even into the 60s the French was still not held in particularly high esteem in the US.

Although I think it is quite important, I wouldn't judge a player solely on not having a French title and I can understand your reasons why Alice didn't go there in the late 30s. Probably she might have done if circumstances had been different post-1939 and who knows how what happened in 1934 scarred her but the Grand Slam was a recognised feat in those days and the two Helens made the trip to Paris. For any player who can manage to win RG and Wimbledon in the same year it is a great achievement. Of course this is more relevant from the 50s onwards - there aren't that many pre-war players who even won both the titles let alone in the ame year, and as you point out most of the RG winners couldn't win elsewhere.

It's just a pity Alice didn't play RG apart from the infamous 1934, it rounds a career out and, just personally I think it slightly detracts from a player's overall standing.
chris whiteside is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th, 2004, 06:32 PM   #14
country flag RoanHJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 409
RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside
That's very interesting. I wonder whom we are to believe? It does seem that the USLTA of yesteryear was very old school tie and liked to control their players. In later years Darlene Hard and Karen Susman seemed to run foul of them. Nancy has said in her posts that they were more or less obligated to return to the States after Wimbledon rather than going on to the tournaments in Continental Europe.

It has always surprised me that for such a forward looking country it was mostly the opposition from the US (strongly backed by Italy) which delayed the introduction of Open Tennis. Britain and France were pushing hard for this from the late 50s.

Thanks to both Roan and Rollo for their analysis of Alice.

I would tend to agree with Rollo that the absence of a French title is a drawback although I accept that the big two titles were Wimbledon and Forest Hills. As Roan points out circumstances in those days were very different, especially with regard to travel - Australia is the prime example of that - even conditions in the late 50s and 1960s varied from the post-war era which in turn was different from the 30's.

I think possibly there is a British/European versus American split on this. While RG was regarded as the #3 Tournament in world terms the gap in prestige between them was considered much greater in the US than the rest of the tennis world. Even into the 60s the French was still not held in particularly high esteem in the US.

Although I think it is quite important, I wouldn't judge a player solely on not having a French title and I can understand your reasons why Alice didn't go there in the late 30s. Probably she might have done if circumstances had been different post-1939 and who knows how what happened in 1934 scarred her but the Grand Slam was a recognised feat in those days and the two Helens made the trip to Paris. For any player who can manage to win RG and Wimbledon in the same year it is a great achievement. Of course this is more relevant from the 50s onwards - there aren't that many pre-war players who even won both the titles let alone in the ame year, and as you point out most of the RG winners couldn't win elsewhere.

It's just a pity Alice didn't play RG apart from the infamous 1934, it rounds a career out and, just personally I think it slightly detracts from a player's overall standing.

There were a lot of players that had problems with the USLTA. Tilden fought with them. They gave Pauline Betz a rough time. What bothered Eleanor Tennant was how Alice was treated like a second class citizen by Julian Myrick. He had no regard for her health. She was just a teenager when this happened and he basically held a place on the Wightman Cup team over her head. Against her better judgement Alice knew she had to play doubles with Helen Wills or Myrick would keep her off the Wightman Cup team and back then Wightman Cup was a very big deal.Guys like Myrick ran tennis pretty much the way the top guys in Hollywood ran their studios. That's why , in my opinion, they wanted to stay with the so called "amatuer tennis." They were on a power trip.

Last edited by RoanHJ : Oct 6th, 2004 at 09:01 PM.
RoanHJ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7th, 2004, 04:23 AM   #15
country flag RoanHJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 409
RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough RoanHJ is a jewel in the rough
I just got a copy of Bill Tilden's autobiography "My Story." Here's what Big Bill had to say about Alice's game:

"It's an astounding and quite unique game that Alice plays. As I've said, she is the only girl I have ever seen who plays tennis man-wise. Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills and Helen Jacobs, great as they were, played a women's tennis. During her tournament years Alice Marble hit, ran and thought like a man. She served and followed in on service to volley and smash with the same ease that a boy does. She covered court with none of the effort always noticeable in Helen Wills. She had every shot in the game, and a keen brain to direct their use." pg 163


He went on to write:

"I played mixed doubles with her, and for the only time in my life I enjoyed mixed doubles. It was like playing men's doubles. Alice was so sucessful in playing three people-her opponents and myself-that she and I won a majority from Don and Mary." pg 164

High praise from the master. Of Course, he liked Alice a great deal so that helped

Btw, Tilden also praises Eleanor Tennant in this book. He writes:

"I had the pleasure of conducting a series of tennis clinics with Eleanor during our pro tour in 1940. I can say without hesitation that I learned more tennis from her than from anyone before or since." Pg 165
RoanHJ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios