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Old Aug 25th, 2004, 08:10 PM   #91
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1966

Bruce Walkley Melbourne Herald Sun Australia.

P.S. This list IS genuine!!

1 Bueno
2 Richey
3 Court
4 King
5 Jones
6 van Zyl
7 Durr
8 Graebner
9 Melville
10 Casals

British Lawn Tennis Readers' Poll

1957

1 Gibson
2 Hard
3 Bloomer
4 Brough
5 Knode
6 Haydon
7 Puzejova
8 Truman
9 Ramirez
10 Kormoczy


1958

1 Gibson
2 Fleitz
3 Kormoczy
4 Hard
5 Mortimer
6 Truman
7 Bloomer
8 Bueno
9 Haydon
10 Knode


1959

1 Bueno
2 Truman
3 Fleitz
4 Hard
5 Mortimer
6 Reynolds
7 Haydon
8 Ramirez
9 Moore
10 Kormoczy


1960

Strangely, asked readers for lists gave results for men but not women.


1961

1 Mortimer
2 Hard
3 Haydon
4 Smith
5 Reynolds
6 Truman
7 Ramirez
8 Hantze
9 Kormoczy
10 Schuurman


1962

1 Smith
2 Bueno
3 Hard
4 Hantze
5 Schuurman
6 Haydon
7 Sukova
8 Reynolds
9 Turner
10 Mortimer (?)


1963

1 Smith
2 Bueno
3 Turner
4 Moffitt
5 Jones
6 Hard
7 Lehane
8 Schuurman
9 Truman
10 Sukova
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Old Aug 26th, 2004, 07:46 AM   #92
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1931-1938
A Wallis Myers Rankings taken from Dunlop Lawn Tennis almanack 1939

1931
1 Helen Wills Moody US
2 Cilly Aussem Germany
3 Mrs Whittingstall (England)
4 Helen Jacobs US
5 Betty Nuthall England
6 Hilde Krahwinkel Germany
7 S. Passemand Mathieu France
8 Lili de Alvarez Spain
9 Phylis Mudford England
10 Mrs Pittman England

1932
1 Helen Wills Moody US
2 Helen Jacobs US
3 S. Passemand Mathieu France
4 L Payot Switzerland
5 Hilde Krahwinkel Germany
6 M Helley England
7 Mrs Whittingstall (England)
8 Frl Horn Germany
9 K Stammers England
10 Mlle Sigart France

1933
1 Helen Wills Moody US
2 Helen Jacobs US
3 D. Round Britain
4 Hilde Krahwinkel Germany
5 MC Scriven England
6 S. Passemand Mathieu France
7 S Palfrey USA
8 Betty Nuthall England
9 L Payot Switzerland
10 A Marble USA

1934
1 D. Round
2 Helen Jacobs US
3 H. Sperling Germany
4 S Palfrey USA
5 MC Scriven England
6 S. Passemand Mathieu France
7 L Payot Switzerland
8 Joan Hartigan Australia
9 Frl Aussem Germany
10 C Babcock USA

1936
1. H. Jacobs
2. H. Sperling Germany
3. D. Round Britain
4. A Marble
5. S Mathieu France
6. J Jedrzejowska
7. K Stammers Britain
8. A Lizana Chile
9. Fabyan
10. C Babcock

1937
1. A Lizana
2. Mrs Little
3. J Jedrzejowska
4. Sperling
5. S Mathieu
6. H. Jacobs
7. A Marble
8. M Horn
9. RM Hardwick
10. DM Bundy

1938
1. F Moody
2. H. Jacobs
3. A Marble
4. S Sperling
5. S Mathieu
6. J Jedrzejowska
7. Fabyan
8. Mrs Miller (South Africa)
9. K Stammers
10. N Wynne

Sir Gordon Lowes 1939 rankings from Lawn Tennis Almanack 1946
1939
1. A Marble
2. K Stammers
3. H. Jacobs
4. S Sperling
5. S Mathieu
6. Fabyan
7. J Jedrzejowska
8. RM Hardwick
9. VE Scott
10. Virginia Wolfenden

Pierre Gillou
1946
1. P Betz
2. ME Osborne
3. AL Brough
4. DJ Hart
5. PC Todd
6. D Bundy
7. N Landry
8. Mrs M Menzies
9. S Fry
10. F Kovacs

John Olliff from Lawn Tennis Almanack 1948
1947
1. ME Osborne
2. AL Brough
3. DJ Hart
4. NW Bolton
5. PC Todd
6. SP Summers
7. EWA Bostock
8. B Krase
9. BE Hilton
10. M Rurac

John Olliff from Lawn Tennis Almanack 1949
1948
1. ME Osborne du Pont
2. AL Brough
3. DJ Hart
4. NW Bolton
5. PC Todd
6. EWA Bostock
7. SP Summers
8. S Fry
9. M Rurac
10. N Landry

Pierre Gillou
1949
1. ME Osborne du Pont
2. AL Brough
3. DJ Hart
4. PC Todd
5. BE Hilton
6. Mrs Moran
7. Mrs Pastall Perez
8. S Fry
9. Beverly Baker Beckett
10. Mrs Walker Smith

Edward C Potter
1949
1. ME Osborne du Pont
2. AL Brough
3. DJ Hart
4. Mrs Pastall Perez
5. PC Todd
6. S Fry
7. Mrs Moran
8. Beverly Baker Beckett
9. Miss D Head
10. BE Hilton

John Olliff from Lawn Tennis Almanack 1951
1950
1. ME Osborne du Pont
2. AL Brough
3. DJ Hart
4. PC Todd
5. B Scofield
6. N Chaffee
7. Beverly Baker
8. S Fry
9. A Bossi
10. H Weiss

From USLTA official Encyclopedia of Tennis
1951
1. DJ Hart
2. M Connolly
3. S Fry
4. NC Kiner
5. Walker Smith England
6. J Quertier England
7. AL Brough
8. J Fleitz
9. PC Todd
10. J Maule England

From USLTA official Encyclopedia of Tennis
Lance Tingay
1952
1. M Connolly
2. DJ Hart
3. AL Brough
4. S Fry
5. PC Todd
6. NC Kiner
7. TC Long Australia
8. Walker Smith England
9. I Rinkel Quertier England
10. D Knode

From USLTA official Encyclopedia of Tennis
Lance Tingay
1953
1. M Connolly
2. DJ Hart
3. AL Brough
4. S Fry
5. W Du Pont
6. D Knode
7. S Kormoczy Hungary
8. A Mortimer England
9. H Fletcher England
10. I Rinkel Quertier England

From USLTA official Encyclopedia of Tennis
Lance Tingay
1954
1. M Connolly
2. DJ Hart
3. B Fleitz
4. AL Brough
5. W Du Pont
6. S Fry
7. S Pratt Jamaica
8. H Fletcher England
9. A Mortimer England
10. TC Long Australia

From USLTA official Encyclopedia of Tennis
Lance Tingay
1955
1. AL Brough
2. DJ Hart
3. B Fleitz
4. A Mortimer England
5. D Knode
6. B Breit
7. D Hard
8. B Penrose Australia
9. PE Ward England
=10. S Kormoczy Hungary
=10. S Fry

From USLTA official Encyclopedia of Tennis
Lance Tingay
1956
1. S Fry
2. A Gibson
3. AL Brough
4. A Mortimer England
5. S Kormoczy Hungary
6. A Buxton England
7. S Bloomer England
8. PE Ward England
9. S Pratt Jamaica
=10. W Du Pont
=10. D Hard



Lance Tingay

1959
1. Maria Bueno-Brazil
2. Christine Truman-GB
3. Darlene Hard-US
4. Beverly Fleitz-US
5. S Reynolds
6. Angela Mortimer-GB
7. Ann Haydon-GB
8. Suzy Kormoczy-Hungary
9. S Moore
10. Y Ramirez

Edward C Potter

1959
1. Maria Bueno-Brazil
2. Christine Truman-GB
3. Beverly Fleitz-US
4. S Reynolds
5. Angela Mortimer-GB
6. Darlene Hard-US
7. Ann Haydon-GB
8. R Schuurman
9. Y Ramirez
10. D Knode


Lance Tingay

1960
1. Maria Bueno-Brazil
2. Darlene Hard-US
3. S Reynolds
4. Christine Truman-GB
5. Suzy Kormoczy-Hungary
6. Ann Haydon-GB
7. Angela Mortimer-GB
8. J Lehane -AUS
9. Y Ramirez
10. R Schuurman

Edward C Potter
1960
1. Maria Bueno-Brazil
2. Darlene Hard-US
3. Ann Haydon-GB
4. Christine Truman-GB
5. S Reynolds
6. Suzy Kormoczy-Hungary
7. Angela Mortimer-GB
8. J Lehane -AUS
9. K Hantze
10. D Knode

Lance Tingay

1961
1. Angela Mortimer-GB
2. Darlene Hard-US
3. Ann Haydon-GB
4. M Smith -Australia
5. S Reynolds South Africa
6. Y Ramirez Mexico
7. Christine Truman-GB
8. Suzy Kormoczy-Hungary
9. R Schuurman South Africa
10. K Hantze USA


Edward C Potter
1961
1. Angela Mortimer-GB
2. M Smith -Australia
3. Ann Haydon-GB
4. Christine Truman-GB
5. Darlene Hard-US
6. K Hantze USA
7. S Reynolds South Africa
8. Y Ramirez Mexico
9. E Buding
10. L Turner

Lance Tingay

1962
1. M Smith -Australia
2. Maria Bueno-Brazil
3. Darlene Hard-US
4. J Susman USA
5. V Sukova Czechoslovakia
6. L Price South Africa
7. L Turner Australia
8. Ann Haydon-GB
9. R Schuurman South Africa
10.Angela Mortimer-GB


Lance Tingay

1963
1. M Smith -Australia
2. L Turner Australia
3. Maria Bueno-Brazil
4. BJ Moffitt USA
5. A Jones UK
6. Darlene Hard-US
7. J Lehane -AUS
8. R Schuurman South Africa
9. N Richey USA
10.V Sukova Czechoslovakia

Lance Tingay

1964
1. M Smith -Australia
2. Maria Bueno-Brazil
3. L Turner Australia
4. C Graebner USA
5. H Schultze Germany
6. N Richey USA
7. BJ Moffitt USA
8. J Susman US
9. R Ebbern Australia
10.J Lehane -AUS

Lance Tingay

1965
1. M Smith -Australia
2. Maria Bueno-Brazil
3.
4. BJ Moffitt USA
5. A Jones UK
6. A van Zyl S Africa
7. C Truman
8. N Richey USA
9. C Graebner USA
10. F Durr France

Lance Tingay

1966
1. BJ Moffitt USA
2. M Smith -Australia
3. Maria Bueno-Brazil
4. A Jones UK
5. N Richey USA
6. A van Zyl S Africa
7. N Baylon Argentina
8. F Durr France
9. R Casals USA
10. K Melville Australia

Lance Tingay

1967
1. BJ Moffitt USA
2. A Jones UK
3. F Durr France
4. N Richey USA
5. L Turner Australia
6. R Casals USA
7. Maria Bueno-Brazil
8. V Wade UK
9. K Melville Australia
10. J Tegart Australia

World Tennis
1967
1. BJ Moffitt USA
2. A Jones UK
3. F Durr France
4. L Turner Australia
5. N Richey USA
6. R Casals USA
7. Maria Bueno-Brazil
8. V Wade UK
9. K Melville Australia
10. J Tegart Australia
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Old Aug 26th, 2004, 01:19 PM   #93
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Interesting that the lists in Total tennis purporting to be those of John Oliff for 1939 and 1946 are exactly the same as Sir Gordon Lowes' and Pierre Gillou's respectively.

Edward (Ned) C. Potter = World Tennis.


1949

John Oliff

1 M. Osbourne duPont
2 L. Brough
3 D. Hart
4 N. Wynne Bolton
5 P. Canning Todd
6 B. Hilton
7 S. Piercey summers
8 A. Ulstein Bossi
9 J. Curry
10 J. Walker-Smith

Lance Tingay

1957

1 Gibson
2 Hard
3 Bloomer
4 Brough
5 Knode
6 Puzejova
7 Haydon
8 Ramirwz
9 Truman
10 Osbourne duPont

Lance Tingay
1958

1 Gibson
2 Kormoczy
3 Baker Fleitz
4 Hard
5 Bloomer
6 Truman
7 Mortimer
8 Haydon
9 Bueno
10 Knode


Edward C. Potter (Tennis World)

1961

Insufficient Data. M. Bueno

1962

1 Smith
2 Bueno
3 Hard
4 Susman
5 Schuurman
6 Haydon
7 Sukova
8 Reynolds
9 Caldwell
10 Moffitt


1963

1 Smith
2 Bueno
3 Turner
4 Hard
5 Moffitt
6 Jones
7 Lehane
8 Sukova
9 Schuurman
10 Ebbern

1964 Interestingly goes for Bueno over Court.

1 Bueno
2 Smith
3 Turner
4 Richey
5 Moffitt
6 Graebner
7 Susman
8 Lehane
9 Hanks
10 Jones

Joseph McCauley (World Tennis)

1965

1 Smith
2 Bueno
3 Richey
4 King
5 Turner
6 van Zyl
7 Truman
8 Jones
9 Graebner
10 Durr

1966

1 King
2 Bueno
3 Jones
4 Smith
5 Richey
6 van Zyl
7 Casals
8 Baylon
9 Wade
10 Durr



1969

1 Court
2 Jones
3 King
4 Richey
5 Heldman
6 Casals
7 Melville
8 Wade
9 Tegart
10 Bartkowicz

1970

1 Court
2 King
3 Casals
4 Wade
5 Masthoff
6 Melville
7 Heldman
8 Krantzcke
9 Durr
10 Richey

Insufficient Data. A. Jones

1971

1 Goolagomg
2 King
3 Court
4 Casals
5 Wade
6 Durr
7 Masthoff
8 Melville-Reid
9 Richey
10 Dalton

1972

now compiled for World Tennis by Neil Amdur

1 King
2 Richey
3 Evert
4 Goolagong
5 Court
6 Melville
7 Casals
8 Wade
9 Durr
10 Overton
= Morozova

1973

1 Court
2 Evert
3 King
4 Goolagong
5 Melville
6 Wade
7 Casals
8 Morozova
9 Richey
10 Durr

Editors of World Tennis

1974

1 Evert
2 King
3 Goolagong
4 Morozova
5 Melville
6 Casals
7 Wade
8 Heldman
9 Richey
10 Navratilova
= Durr

1975

1 Evert
2 King
3 Navratilova
4 Goolagong
5 Wade
6 Court
7 Morozova
8 Richey
9 Durr
10 Casals

1976

1 Evert
2 Goolagong
3 Wade
4 Casals
5 Navratilova
6 Barker
7 Jausovec
8 Fromholtz
9 Stove
10 Holladay

British Lawn Tennis Reder's Poll

they went with Potter over Tingay for Bueno

1964

1 Bueno
2 Smith
3 Turner
4 Moffitt
5 Richey
6 Susman
7 Graebner
8 Jones
9 Ebbern
10 Lehane

1965

1 Smith
2 Bueno
3 King
4 Bueno
5 Jones
6 Richey
7 van Zyl
8 Truman
9 Graebner
10 Durr

1966

Interesting in that they went aagainst both World Tennis and Tingay

1 Bueno
2 Smith
3 King
4 Jones
5 Richey
6 van Zyl
7 Durr
8 Baylon
9 Casals
10 Wade

1967

1 King
2 Jones
3 Durr
4 Richey
5 Turner
6 Casals
7 Bueno
8 Wade
9 Tegart
10 Melville

Abandoned with start of open era.



1

Last edited by Rollo : Sep 2nd, 2004 at 02:03 PM.
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Old Aug 26th, 2004, 02:12 PM   #94
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"1972

now compiled for World Tennis by Neil Amdur

1 King
2 Richey
3 Evert
4 Goolagong
5 Court
6 Melville
7 Casals
8 Wade
9 Durr
10 Overton
= Morozova"



Off the Wall

This ranking seems highly political to me and probably contains more than a smidgeon of favouritism as well. I don't have my stats beside me but
it seems clear that this is all about sending the message that the slims tour is "THE" tour in women's tennis. Non slims players Goolagong and Wade deserve to be ranked higher, imo, Goolagong at #2 and Wade ahead of Casals at least and maybe Melville. I can't see what Richey did (except beat Chrissie) to be ranked quite so high either. I'd love to read the "rationale" behind this listing.
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Old Aug 26th, 2004, 06:58 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
"1972

now compiled for World Tennis by Neil Amdur

1 King
2 Richey
3 Evert
4 Goolagong
5 Court
6 Melville
7 Casals
8 Wade
9 Durr
10 Overton
= Morozova"



Off the Wall

This ranking seems highly political to me and probably contains more than a smidgeon of favouritism as well. I don't have my stats beside me but
it seems clear that this is all about sending the message that the slims tour is "THE" tour in women's tennis. Non slims players Goolagong and Wade deserve to be ranked higher, imo, Goolagong at #2 and Wade ahead of Casals at least and maybe Melville. I can't see what Richey did (except beat Chrissie) to be ranked quite so high either. I'd love to read the "rationale" behind this listing.
Tingay had Richey at #3 which is pretty similar. Amdur did say that you could make make a case for any one of the players from 2 to 6 for the #2 slot.

A snippet from Angela Mortimer which maybe illustrates national bias in rankings. When contacted to be told she was ranked #1 in Britain for 1961 she said "I did not know it was coming out. I would have put Ann ahead of Christine. I was more interested in the world ranking actually. I usually go by Lance Tingay's and Potter's. I know they're not official but I feel if they both get the same person #1 that is good enough". When then told she was #1 with Ned Potter Angela continued " That's fine. It's difficult to get to the top of the American one. Unless you play over there they never seem to appreciate anything you do".

Andy, whenever I get time I'll post the resume of the 1972 rankings.
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Old Aug 27th, 2004, 08:59 AM   #96
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What follows is not a set of rankings but a set of stats from the slims tour in 72. I took the points totals and divided them by the number of tournaments played. There was no minimum divisor, all players listed having played 4 or more (out of 21) tournaments except Burton and Truman (3) and Goolagong, who only played Dallas. Morozova and Chanfreau did not play any VS tournaments and are therefore absent. In parentheses are the rankings in terms of points totals only ( which was the system used by the slims tour itself). The tour included only US events and none of the majors. The points allocation system used was:
Winner: 10
Finalist: 7
Losing SF: 5
Losing QF: 3
Losing last 16: 1

1 Chris Evert (7)
2 Billie Jean King (1)
3 Margaret Court (9)
4 Nancy Richey (3)
5 Evonne Goolagong (-)
6 Rosie Casals (2)
7 Virginia Wade (14=)
8 Kerry Melville (4)
9 Françoise Durr (5)
10 Wendy Overton (6)
-------------
11 Judy Tegart-Dalton (8)
12 Julie Heldman (10=), Veronica Burton (-), Nell Truman (-)
15 Jeanne Evert (-)
16 Helen Gourlay (14=)
17 Val Ziegenfuss (12)
18 Karen Krantzcke (10=)
19 Lesley Hunt (13)
20 Kristy Pigeon (-)

- Betty Stove (16)
- Corinne Molesworth (17)
- Maria Neumannova (18)
- Mona Schallau & Kerry Harris (19)

Chris, I found the issue of World Tennis which gives these rankings and the resumé (bless you alfajeffster) and was fascinated to read that Amdur considered Richey, Evert, Goolagong, Melville and Court for that second spot. Richey's consistency and performances against King and Evert are what clinches it for him. He contrasts this with Evonne's erratic form and failure to challenge the King supremacy. The guy's tennis values are clearly much more in the Evert-Richey camp of consistency. Fair enough.

Applying the same procedure to the International Grand Prix, which contained 30 tournaments (including 15 of the 21 slims events, plus the South African, Italian German, French, Wimbledon and US Opens amongst others but excluding all the Australian circuit results and the slims championships), the order is quite different. I used a minimum divisor of 6 and the points total position is again in parentheses).

1 King (1)
2 Goolagong (2)
3 Court (6)
4 Evert (8)
5 Richey (4)
6 Masthoff (13)
7 Casals (3)
8 Wade (9)
9 Melville (5)
10 Durr (7)
11 Tuero (15)
12 Walkden (14)
13 Ziegenfuss (12)
14 Hunt (10)
15 Overton (11)
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Old Aug 27th, 2004, 12:01 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
What follows is not a set of rankings but a set of stats from the slims tour in 72. I took the points totals and divided them by the number of tournaments played. There was no minimum divisor, all players listed having played 4 or more (out of 21) tournaments except Burton and Truman (3) and Goolagong, who only played Dallas. Morozova and Chanfreau did not play any VS tournaments and are therefore absent. In parentheses are the rankings in terms of points totals only ( which was the system used by the slims tour itself). The tour included only US events and none of the majors. The points allocation system used was:
Winner: 10
Finalist: 7
Losing SF: 5
Losing QF: 3
Losing last 16: 1

1 Chris Evert (7)
2 Billie Jean King (1)
3 Margaret Court (9)
4 Nancy Richey (3)
5 Evonne Goolagong (-)
6 Rosie Casals (2)
7 Virginia Wade (14=)
8 Kerry Melville (4)
9 Françoise Durr (5)
10 Wendy Overton (6)
-------------
11 Judy Tegart-Dalton (8)
12 Julie Heldman (10=), Veronica Burton (-), Nell Truman (-)
15 Jeanne Evert (-)
16 Helen Gourlay (14=)
17 Val Ziegenfuss (12)
18 Karen Krantzcke (10=)
19 Lesley Hunt (13)
20 Kristy Pigeon (-)

- Betty Stove (16)
- Corinne Molesworth (17)
- Maria Neumannova (18)
- Mona Schallau & Kerry Harris (19)

Chris, I found the issue of World Tennis which gives these rankings and the resumé (bless you alfajeffster) and was fascinated to read that Amdur considered Richey, Evert, Goolagong, Melville and Court for that second spot. Richey's consistency and performances against King and Evert are what clinches it for him. He contrasts this with Evonne's erratic form and failure to challenge the King supremacy. The guy's tennis values are clearly much more in the Evert-Richey camp of consistency. Fair enough.

Applying the same procedure to the International Grand Prix, which contained 30 tournaments (including 15 of the 21 slims events, plus the South African, Italian German, French, Wimbledon and US Opens amongst others but excluding all the Australian circuit results and the slims championships), the order is quite different. I used a minimum divisor of 6 and the points total position is again in parentheses).

1 King (1)
2 Goolagong (2)
3 Court (6)
4 Evert (8)
5 Richey (4)
6 Masthoff (13)
7 Casals (3)
8 Wade (9)
9 Melville (5)
10 Durr (7)
11 Tuero (15)
12 Walkden (14)
13 Ziegenfuss (12)
14 Hunt (10)
15 Overton (11)
Someone up there must be smiling down on me today, Andy. I had sat down with my issue of World Tennis to copy the article for you and it was going to take 4 or 5 instalments but fortunately I saw your most recent post! Phew!
So what are you going with then? The IGF calculations? Interesting that despite your first impressions Wade finishes below Casals in both your lists. The top 5 are the same in all the lists although a different order and while you might not agree with Amdur his reasoning is valid enough. That's why personal ranking lists are so much more fun than computers.

Just out of my era but I am going to sit down with what data I have and see what my own ranking would be.
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Old Aug 27th, 2004, 01:32 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside
Someone up there must be smiling down on me today, Andy. I had sat down with my issue of World Tennis to copy the article for you and it was going to take 4 or 5 instalments but fortunately I saw your most recent post! Phew!
So what are you going with then? The IGF calculations? Interesting that despite your first impressions Wade finishes below Casals in both your lists. The top 5 are the same in all the lists although a different order and while you might not agree with Amdur his reasoning is valid enough. That's why personal ranking lists are so much more fun than computers.

Just out of my era but I am going to sit down with what data I have and see what my own ranking would be.
I nearly emailed you to say for heaven's sake don't type it up - it's so long.
As you say, we all have certain preferences regarding players, playing styles and how to balance consistency vs peaks and lows and having read Amdur's explanations I can see his point.

I ain't going with either list above because neither is comprehensive in its coverage. I'll do the same as you and get back to you.... à suivre.....
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Old Aug 30th, 2004, 10:21 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside
Tingay had Richey at #3 which is pretty similar. Amdur did say that you could make make a case for any one of the players from 2 to 6 for the #2 slot.
Apologies this is incorrect. Tingay had Nancy Richey at #8. I forgot the listings in Total Tennis had switched from Tingay to Collins in 1968.
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Old Aug 30th, 2004, 11:28 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
"1972

now compiled for World Tennis by Neil Amdur

1 King
2 Richey
3 Evert
4 Goolagong
5 Court
6 Melville
7 Casals
8 Wade
9 Durr
10 Overton
= Morozova"



Off the Wall

This ranking seems highly political to me and probably contains more than a smidgeon of favouritism as well. I don't have my stats beside me but
it seems clear that this is all about sending the message that the slims tour is "THE" tour in women's tennis. Non slims players Goolagong and Wade deserve to be ranked higher, imo, Goolagong at #2 and Wade ahead of Casals at least and maybe Melville. I can't see what Richey did (except beat Chrissie) to be ranked quite so high either. I'd love to read the "rationale" behind this listing.

No year is ever easy to compile world rankings for and 1972 has the added difficulty in that there were two circuits on the go. So perhaps it is the results in which they came together which count for the most.

I don't think there can be much doubt that the Slims circuit had much the stronger players but they were missing Goolagong and Wade although Wade did play half-a-dozen tournaments or so at the start of the season before going to the other circuit which in the main consisted of Masthoff, Tuero, Chanfreau, Morozova, Hunt etc. Most of the players competed in around 25 tournaments. Evert because of her schooling only played 12 but she managed most of the big ones and there was also the complication of Margaret Court only returning to the circuit after Wimbledon which meant she only competed for 4 months and in 1 Slam but there is just about enough in her record to be able to assess her.

There are some significant differences between who were considered the two top rankers in the world, namely Lance Tingay and World Tennis and Bud Collins was different again so there was much divergence. In the end unless you stick hard and fast to statistics any list can only be a judgement call. I think sometimes certain compilers (not all) were prey to the ice-skating syndrome in that you could see certain obvious mistakes which meant compulsory reductions yet when the marks came up the scores given were literally "impossible" - they were being judged on reputation. Some fell into this trap perhaps with Court in 66 and Bueno in 68. You might know that on form Margaret e.g. is the best player in the world but it is vital that the ranking for that year is based solely on the results achieved within the period of assessment.

It was interesting to see the grading of many tournaments in the CU Grand Prix. The Australian tournaments weren't included at all which in the overall standings disadvantaged some players, although in terms of world ranking they didn't make much difference. The South African which was little more than an exhibition for Goolagong and Wade was graded "A" while one such as Dallas with Goolagong, King, Gunter, Evert, Durr, Melville and Casals was a "B". The German Champs (Masthoff, Tuero) which more than most suffered post 68 was a "B" the same as Dallas and ahead of the Italian "C" with Wade, Morozova and Hunt in addition to Masthoff and Tuero. Obviously the points available for these events are out of line relative to the strength of the fields which is another disadvantage of a statisical system. Of course as Andy says this is an insurmountable problem when the status has to be pre-determined.

This would be my list:

1 King
2 Evert
3 Goolagong
4 Court
5 Richey
6 Melville
7 Casals
8 Wade
9 Durr
10 Morozova

At this point may I just say a special word of thanks to AndyT for his forbearance and co-operation in supplying some data I was missing and answering many queries I had.

I don't think anyone is going to quarrel with BJK as No.1. Champion of France, Wimbledon and the US plus the leader on the Slims circuit. Obviously the weekly nature of the tour meant she was playing more than she normally would - 27 tournaments. However she was by no means invulnerable losing 15 matches - including 3 each to Gunter, Evert and Durr. This is an unusually large number for the world #1. Her record of 9 wins and 7 runner up spots in 24 tournaments might be statistically bettered by others but she won the 3 big ones when all the players came together, the only player who had an h2h advantage over her was Evert 3-1 and her victories came on clay. Frankie Durr also raised her game against Bj and finished 3-3.

It seemed pretty obvious that Evonne Goolagong was the #2, South African Champion and runner up in Australia, France and Wimbledon. But then as you look more closely cracks begin to appear in that theory. The Australian and South African prestigious though they may be were in effect little more than exhibitions for Goolagong and Wade. Defeats for either of them in the seriously weak fields before the final would have been disastrous. Wade won the Slam title in Australia (my views regarding the fields in SOME of the years are well documented) and Goolagong the SA but IMO while they cannot be ignored there are many more significant events in relation to the wotld rankings. Evonne did well in defending her French and Wimbledon crowns only losing the finals to BJK and beat Chris Evert in the Wimbledon semi but she flopped at Forest Hills. Having said that she was actually ahead of BJK on numbers in the other tournaments losing 11 times in 24 events winning 13 titles sharing one other and reaching 7 other finals but then again you have to consider the strength of all those Australian events in late 71/early 72.

She is also down on h2hs against King, Evert and Court and only level with Melville and Casals. So, I ask, is she #2?

How does Chris Evert's record stand up?

After Andy's brilliant post I see no need to go into the records but just give my reasons for my relative placings.

In a short space of time Chris achieved much winning the US Clay courts, the Slims final at Boca Raton which has to be regarded as the fourth biggest tournament of the year and also reaching the semis at both Wimbledon and Forest Hills on grass. Amdur in WT states that her 0-3 record against her nullifies any chance of ranking Chris above Nancy Richey. This is rubbish. There are many precedents such as Jones over King in 1969 on a 1-3 record or Goolagong over Court in 1971 despite being 2-6. In tennis player A usually beats player B who in turn generally beats player C, therefore..... As we all know it doesn't always follow. Player C's game happens to dovetail nicely into Player A's........ Apart from Nancy, Evert had winning h2hs over every other player. I appreciate those over BJK were on all on clay but she reached the semis in the two biggest grass court tournaments.

It's just a personal opinion but I place quite a bit of store on "bad" defeats and also the strength of the field in tournaments won. I would have loved to place Evert and Goolagong #2= but I don't cop out and after much deliberation I like Chris' all round performance better.

Margaret was a problem in that she only palyed for 4 months and 10 tournaments but she achieved much in this time and it was possible to assess her I don't agree with P/F that her spell on the tour means a lower ranking. I believe it is her performance relative to that of the other players. It is unfortunate for her that she had to withdraw at Boca when leading 5-2 final set. Although she had losing h2hs against King and Evert she also had wins over them was 1-1 with Wade and had plus records against all other players (except her withdrawal against J. Evert) including Gunter, Goolagong, Casals and Durr and she was always in the semis or finals winning 5 tournaments in her four and a half months. Semis at Forest Hills losing to BJK.

Nancy, of course was No.2 on the Slims tour but her performances in the biggest event hurt her. She reached her "protected" quarter at Wimbledon then lost to Casals, was beaten early at the USO and what really killed off her clain for ahigher ranking was her defeat to Stove early at Boca.

Melville, Casals and Wade were all pretty close. Melville had the prestige of finals at Forest Hills and Boca but a relatively weak record elsewhere but she had few "bad" defeats. Many of her losses were to players who would just have been outside the top 10. Rosie Casals reached the Wimbledon semis and US quarters and didn't have the usual number of bad losses. Virginia was her usual unpredicable self, brilliant in beating Evonne in Australia and losing to players who would hardly have been heard of. They were all so close together that in the end I went with their h2hs. Kerry was 4-3 on Casals and 2-0 on Wade and Casals was 2-1 on Wade.

Frankie Durr had wins against Goolagong, Wade and Casals and a splendid 3-3 record against Billie Jean and was a perennial quarter finallist. It always took a good player to beat her. She slotted easily into #9.

#10 was a question of you pays your money and you takes your choice. Heldman, Hunt, Morozova, Tuero.

Last edited by chris whiteside : Sep 11th, 2004 at 06:25 AM.
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Old Aug 31st, 2004, 10:20 AM   #101
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Your comments on the "tiers" on the CU GP throw up a recurring problem regarding the "merits" of victories in big/rich tournaments with weak entries and smaller tournaments with strong entries. The problem seems unavoidable in a system where the category of an event is determined before the entry list is established. Some conssideration has to be given to the opponents faced and beaten along the way, as well. There's also the conundrum of the prestige factor: certain titles carry more weight because of the status the event has in the perception of the general public. Two tournaments with the same category designation and the same prize money are not necessarily perceived as equal by the general public. To use modern day examples, there are Moscow and Toronto - or San Diego and Rome.
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Old Aug 31st, 2004, 01:18 PM   #102
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I updated a lot today (up to the obnoxious smiley faces) and will try and complete it tomorrow.


Thanks to everyone for their contributions-it will be some list!

BTW-if it's OK I'll also include player lists. Somewhere I have Suzanne Lenglen's list for 1921, and in 1975 World Tennis asked Chris Evert for a top ten list.
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Old Aug 31st, 2004, 10:00 PM   #103
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Andy's 1972 Rankings

Having reacted a bit instinctively in disputing Amdur's rankings as they appeared in World Tennis, I now understad him a bit better, I think, as it was much harder for to arrive at a global ranking for 1972 than I had thought. The first problem seems to be deciding when 1972 started and ended. Does one follow the calendar year, cutting two Australian seasons in two, half at the beginning and half at the end, or, leaving the 1972-3 Australian season intact, the 1972 Dewar Cup series and one or two other events in the Americas for consideration the following year and replace them with the tournaments that took place in November and December 1971? That decision inevitably affects the ranking order decided and is particularly problematic in the case of 1972 as it means that Margaret Court, who came back to tournament play in July, but who dominated the closing two months of the year, suffers. In deference to the practice of that time rather than any personal preference, I’ve decided to go with the October 10th 1971-October 15th 1972 period.



One starting point when trying to determine the top places is to look at performances in a season’s major events. The four main events of this1971-2 season were undoubtedly the traditional majors at Wimbledon, New York and Paris and the inaugural Virginia Slims Championships at Boca Raton in Florida: the first two on grass, the others on clay. Those four events produced two winners and two finalists: King and Evert, Goolagong and Melville.



King won the first three and lost in the semi-final in Florida to Evert. Evert was semi- finalist in the other two events she participated in, going down to Melville at Forest Hills and Goolagong at Wimbledon. Goolagong competed in three of the events, lost two finals to King at Paris and Wimbledon and was the last 16 victim of Teeguarden at Forest Hills. Melville, the finalist at Forest Hills and Boca Raton, lost to Goolagong in the 4th round in Paris and was at beaten in the last 32 by Patti Hogan at Wimbledon.


However, success in the biggest tournaments is not the only criterion for establishing a pecking order over a twelve month period and two other candidates emerge for consideration with the four already mentioned. Court missed the first two thirds of the season in question, and although she was forced to retire against Jeanne Evert at 57 62 52 0-30, just one game from victory in the last 16 at Boca Raton with cramps, she did reach the semi finals at Forest Hills before yielding to King. In tournament play, Court’s record was 2-3 against King,1-1 with Evert and 1-0 over Richey and Goolagong. She did not play Melville and suffered only one other defeat (to Wade) as she won four titles. Richey’s quarter final at Wimbledon and first round defeats at Boca to Stove and Forest Hills to Sawamatsu must be weighed against very good results in head-to-head confrontations with the other players already mentioned.



For 1972 overall, though, rather than simplifying matters, head to head results seem to complicate decisions even more. Among these six women, the results in tournament play illustrate that each had at least one bête noire. King had a losing head to head against Evert. They met once indoors, when King won, and three times on Florida clay, where Evert proved unstoppable. Evert’s record was blemished only by a 0-3 h2h record against Richey. Richey was down 3-4 to King and 0-1 to Court and Goolagong down 0-3 to King and 0-1 to Court, Court in turn was down 2-3 to King. Finally, Melville ended the season without a winning tally against any of these players.in tournament play. I should mention at this point that I’ve basically set aside all results from team competitions as the conditions and circumstances are not the same as in ordinary tournaments. Whether the rubber is dead or live, the influence of a coach and the strength, motivation and performance of the team as a whole mean the conditions differ. This alters one or wo of the h2h stats (as it happens to Evert's detriment, as she beat Court and Goolagong in the Bonne Bell Cup).



Additionally, examining the year-long performance of the top players outside those four championships is complicated by the existence of several separate tour structures: the 21 tournament-long Virginia Slims tour included most – but not all - of the main events in the States; a women’s Grand Prix which included some of the slims events and most of the other remaining major international tournaments such as the Italian, German, South African and Canadian Opens and the US and British Clay Courts; the Australian circuit, which remained a separate series of unconnected tournaments; and the Dewar Cup indoor series in Britain in the closing months of 1971.


The slims tour was the one which had the greatest depth and here King led the pack with 6 tournament wins and 6 finals in 18 regular tournaments. Richey won 5 events from 7 finals (13 tournaments) and Casals three events from 4 finals (18 tournaments) Evert 1 had win from 6 events and Court 2 wins from 4 finals in 4 events. Melville enjoyed 1 win from 2 finals in 18 events and Goolagong 1 semi final from just 1 event


In those 11 Grand Prix events which did not form part of the VS tour or big 4, Goolagong won 4 (1 shared with Stove) from 7 finals in 9 events, Evert and King had 1 win from 1 event each, Melville 1 win and 1 final from 2 events and Court 1 win from 3 events.


On the 6 tournament Dewar Cup-British Indoor circuit of 1971, King played and won the big event, the British Indoors but Wade won three and Goolagong two of the circuit events. In Australia, 7 titles were won by Goolaong but in the biggest, the Australian Open, she fell in the final to Wade.


And so to the rankings. King’s triple crown of the three biggest titles in tennis makes her the obvious candidate for top ranking. Yet although she won the world’s top tournament on clay, the French Open, her head to head results on that surface demonstrate that she was a trifle fortunate that both Richey and Evert were absent from those championships as she never beat either on clay in 1972. Billie Jean did back up her Paris win with a second clay court title, at Charlotte, over Rosie Casals and Margaret Court, though and on grass, she lost only once - to Court in the final at Newport. With major victories indoors and on cement, King had the best overall record and noone else has a stronger claim to that top spot.


In the tussle for the second spot, Richey’s poor performances in the major events and Melville’s failure to sustain her success throughout the year rule those two contenders out in my opinion. Thereafter, it is possible to argue for any one of three players – Court, Evert or Goolagong. Court played least, winning 4 of 9 tournaments and losing 5 times (1 retirement). Evert played 12 tournaments, won four titles and lost 7 times (1 default). Goolagong played way too much and although she won 14 titles (including one divided), she lost 12 times. Nevetheless, she still comes out with the best tournament win/loss ratio. In tournament play, Evert was at 1-1 with both Goolagong and Court and Court won her only encounter with Goolagong. Evert chalked up three wins against King in 4 encounters and Court 2 wins in 5 but Goolagong went down in all three of her meetings with Billie Jean. In the end, though, I feel Goolagong, by virtue of having proven herself second best to the number 1 in the leading grass court and clay events in the world should be given second place overall. She defeated Melville in Paris and Evert at Wimbledon. Evert’s clay court success, with back-to-back wins over King and Melville at Boca Raton, merit a third place but she had no wins over King, Goolagong or Court on any other surface. Court comes in 4th - mainly because she didn't have a big title to support a very solid record after her return - but there really is little to choose between them.


In the battle between Richey and Melville for 5th place, 5 titles and three wins eachover King and Evert seem to give the former, who also beat Melville in their only direct encounter, the edge. Melville’s path to the final at Boca Raton did not include victories over any of the players ranked above her and at Forest Hills her path was eased by Goolagong’s early exit.


Rosie Casals, Virginia Wade and Françoise Durr form the next group. Wade’s fine win over Goolagong – one of three during the year - at the Australian Open was her high point. She also picked up one Slims event at Boston, claimed the scalp of Margaret Court and was a quarter finalist at Roland Garros, Wimbledon and Forest Hills losing to King each time. Casals picked up three titles on the Virginia Slims tour and beat Richey to make the semi finals at Wimbledon. Durr but was a semi finalist in Paris, a quarter finalist at Wimbledon, falling to Goolagong on both occasions, and although she only won 2 titles in a year in which she played in excess of 30 tournaments, she was consistently present in the closing rounds.


The final place could go to one of several candidates: Olga Morozova, Helga Masthoff, Linda Tuero and Wendy Overton. Overton’s claim rests on a title-less but very consistent slims tour but she has no victories over the top 8 players to support her case. Tuero’s claim rests on her win in Rome but she also lost in the final at Nice and Hamburg to Masthoff, who reached the sf in Paris. It is Olga Morozova who seems to me to have the best claim, however, with tournament wins at Orange New Jersey, Beckenham and Tasmania, finals in Rome, Perth and Adelaide, quarter finals in Melbourne Paris and Forest Hills and the last 16 at Wimbledon.


Finally, a look at how this list compares with the other 5 I know of for the year:


Neil Amdur:
King-Richey-Evert-Goolagong-Court-Melville-Casals-Wade-Durr-Overton & Morozova

John Barrett:
King-Court-Evert-Goolagong-Richey-Melville-Casals-Wade-Durr-Stove

Bud Collins: King-Court-Richey-Evert-Wade-Goolagong-Casals-Melville-Durr-Morozova

Lance Tingay:
King-Goolagong-Evert-Court-Melville-Wade-Casals-Richey-Durr-Tuero

Rino Tommasi:
King-Goolagong-Evert-Court-Richey-Casals-Melville-Wade-Durr-Masthoff


Me:
King-Goolagong-Evert-Court-Richey-Melville-Wade-Casals-Durr-Morozova
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Old Sep 1st, 2004, 10:18 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
BTW-if it's OK I'll also include player lists. Somewhere I have Suzanne Lenglen's list for 1921, and in 1975 World Tennis asked Chris Evert for a top ten list.

February 1976 issue, Rollo. I noticed that list and it was spot on. As opposed to WT she went for Goolagong over Navratilova as #3 which imo was the correct ranking.
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Old Sep 1st, 2004, 10:35 AM   #105
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Our lists vary little, Chris. I lengthily deliberated the merits of Evert and Goolagong. It is clear that by the end of 1972, Evert had established herself in the very top flight on clay but in the six tournaments she played on other surfaces, gained just one win (Queens) and beat noone of note in doing so whereas Goolagong did well on all surfaces, beating several top tenners. It is an extremely close call whichever way you look at it. Wade got the nod over Casals for similar reasons.
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