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Old Aug 8th, 2004, 06:51 PM   #1
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Evert's winning percentage on clay

Hey Daze11, do you have Evert's complete record on clay? I once ventured an opinion on rst that Evert was at least as dominant on clay as Navratilova was on grass, if not more, and I was wondering if you and some Navratilova fans (Zummi, Andy T?) could help me find out if I was right or wrong. Do we have the complete numbers for Evert on clay versus Navratilova on grass in terms of winning percentages?
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"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 07:41 AM   #2
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I don't have the figures at hand but I guess Evert's percentage on clay is better than Navratilova's on grass. I could also imagine that Martina's indoor percentage is higher than her grasscourt record.
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 10:59 AM   #3
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I'd guess you're right Robert. It took Martina some years to get going on grass, whearas Chris was a clay court tgerror from the start.

Martina's longevity plays a part too. It helps set one set of records (most matches, oldest, etc) while costing her in the winning percentqage department every time she steps on court.
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 11:16 AM   #4
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What was Nav's longest winning run on grass? so not only in wimbledon but all grass tournaments included.
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 11:44 AM   #5
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Irma-Evert beat her in the 1982 Aussie. I imagine after that Sukova in the Semis at Oz in 1984 then Mandlikova in trhe 1987 final would be the next two defeats.
The Sukova defeat cost her in many ways.
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 01:30 PM   #6
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The original post calls for a comparison of percentages which is the only fair way to do this. There are far more clay court events than there are grass court events. But maybe that makes Chris' record on clay all the more impressive. There aren't many out there that can say they've beaten Chris on a clay court.
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 01:53 PM   #7
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On the other hand there are way more average tournaments on clay than on grass - on grass it's all about the 2 biggies, Wimbledon and Australian Open, both more difficult to win than Hilton Head or Amelia Island. What I'm trying to say is that Evert played one major on clay a year plus 3 to 6 normal tournaments whereas Navratilova played Wimbledon (and AO at times) with only 1 prep-tournament, so naturally Evert's percentage was higher.
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 06:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I'd guess you're right Robert. It took Martina some years to get going on grass, whearas Chris was a clay court tgerror from the start.

Martina's longevity plays a part too. It helps set one set of records (most matches, oldest, etc) while costing her in the winning percentqage department every time she steps on court.
Ok, in that case, how about we examine two 13-year blocks -- 1974-86 for Evert on clay, and 1978-1990 for Navratilova on grass -- so that we cover the years between Evert's first and last French titles and Navratilova's first and last Wimbledon wins?
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Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 07:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by HanaFanGA
There aren't many out there that can say they've beaten Chris on a clay court.
How many of these players do we have anyway? I can think of Court, Goolagong, Austin, Mandlikova, Jaeger, Navratilova, Maleeva-Fragniere, Garrison, Graf, Cecchini, Sanchez-Vicario, Seles, and Paulus. Anyone I've missed?
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Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 07:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samn
How many of these players do we have anyway? I can think of Court, Goolagong, Austin, Mandlikova, Jaeger, Navratilova, Maleeva-Fragniere, Garrison, Graf, Cecchini, Sanchez-Vicario, Seles, and Paulus. Anyone I've missed?
Zina Garrison beat Chris Evert on a clay court? WHERE? WHEN?
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 07:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by alfajeffster
Zina Garrison beat Chris Evert on a clay court? WHERE? WHEN?
Amelia Island final, 1985.
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Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 07:55 PM   #12
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chrissie's winning percentage would surprise people on grass, that's the first thing i'll say. If we remove wimbledon from the picture, chris was 5-5 against martina on grass. No slouch. Most of her bad matches came indoors.

good points about there being more tournaments to win on clay and also about the grass courts being fewer but in larger events, but chris won the us open (75-76-77) when it was on clay, the same years she had to skip the french...which pisses me off...so those are still high profile events on clay, in addition to the french titles. and using these years, martina had the aussie open on grass from 1981-86 before it went to rubber. (am i right it was '86?? or '87? cant remember the first year the aussie switched from grass)

jean-michel will have the winning percentage on clay for chris, i dont have that one.

**alfa, chrissie lost to zina in the final of amelia in 85. despite winning the french in 85 & 86, she had a number of surprising loses on clay...her first loses to graf & seles & sanchez-vicario (really embarrassing) were both on clay; lost to maleeva...i really think after she gave up the wood racquet, her relationship to the surface was quite different...and then again, she was over 30 years old as of 1984.

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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 07:59 PM   #13
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I'll try and do a rough % of Navratilova on Grass using Tennis Corner(So it may not have all the tourny's)
1978-1990 on grass:
Year : W-L %
Titles
Losses
1978 : 13-0 100%
Eastbourne, Wimby
-------
1979 : 13-2 87%
Wimby
BJK, Evert
1980 : 12-4 86%
--------
Stove, Evert, Shriver, Turnbull
1981 : 21-4 84%
Australian Open
Nagelson, Jaeger, Mandlikova, Evert
1982 : 21-1 95%
Eastbourne, Wimby, Sydney
Evert
1983 : 19-0 100%
Eastbourne, Wimby, AO
-----
1984 : 27-1 96%
Eastbourne, Wimby, Newport, Sydney
Sukova
1985 : 29-0 100%
Eastbourne, Wimby, Brisbane, Sydney, AO
-------
1986 : 13-0 100%
Eastbourne, Wimby
--------
1987 : 17-2 89%
Wimbledon
Mandlikova, Sukova
1988 : 12-1 92%
Eastbourne
Graf
1989 : 17-1 94%
Birmingham, Eastbourne
Graf
1990 : 13-0 100%
Eastbourne, Wimbledon
--------

Win/Loss Record : 227-16 93%
Losses: Evert x3, BJK, Stove, Shriver, Nagelson, Jaeger, Sukova x2, Mandlikova, Graf x2, Turnbull

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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 08:04 PM   #14
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well, that settles it--chrissie's winning percentage is a few notches over 90% (90.003%) WITHOUT choosing her best surface. Her clay percentage will be much higher than 93%.

can you imagine someone can say something like that and be serious? chris would have only 8 loses on clay over those years...and many many more wins in comparison. she was 197-1 at one point, just up to 1981.

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Old Aug 9th, 2004, 08:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daze11
chrissie's winning percentage would surprise people on grass, that's the first thing i'll say. If we remove wimbledon from the picture, chris was 5-5 against martina on grass. No slouch. Most of her bad matches came indoors.

good points about there being more tournaments to win on clay and also about the grass courts being fewer but in larger events, but chris won the us open (75-76-77) when it was on clay, the same years she had to skip the french...which pisses me off...so those are still high profile events on clay, in addition to the french titles. and using these years, martina had the aussie open on grass from 1981-86 before it went to rubber. (am i right it was '86?? or '87? cant remember the first year the aussie switched from grass)

jean-michel will have the winning percentage on clay for chris, i dont have that one.

**alfa, chrissie lost to zina in the final of amelia in 85. despite winning the french in 85 & 86, she had a number of surprising loses on clay...her first loses to graf & seles & sanchez-vicario (really embarrassing) were both on clay; lost to maleeva...i really think after she gave up the wood racquet, her relationship to the surface was quite different...and then again, she was over 30 years old as of 1984.
The Australian Open made the switch to rubber in 1988, the first year it was played at then Flinders Park. In 1987 Hana Mandlikova defeated Martina in the last final at Kooyong on grass, and the year before (1986) the event was skipped as they moved it from December 1985 (Nav def. Evert) to January 87.
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