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Old May 1st, 2004, 01:26 PM   #16
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To answer your question about Misa's "abuse"; Ive seen and read interviews with her and Ive heard Richard talk about it. There is absolutely no form of abuse on Misa. Petr is pretty fanatic and strict, but by no means abusive anymore. It's very clear that he has learned from his mistakes. Ofcourse hé gives her a tirade of words every now and then, but which dad doesn't. She is ok with it, Richard is ok with it and she has a good relationship to her dad.

Hopefully that answers your question. So see no evil cause there really IS no evil.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger
In theory, your post sounds correct. Except: in the case of players not (yet) megastars, a "national forum" should feel somewhat flattered by ppl with no ethnic connection (or Sarah-type "ethnic affinity") bothering to visit, caring about the player (inc. as @ least a "sort of" abused child) etc.

I don't crash that Dutch thread in non-tennis where you talk about whatever is of "local interest". Maybe its that unlike typical cheering posts that don't really say much, I've probed into whether the abuse of Misa is strictly verbal; and how bad. Re. which you folks (like the other "nationalists" on this board) would rather play "see no evil".
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Old May 1st, 2004, 01:37 PM   #17
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That won't help I think. Once an abuser, always an abuser. For JR, that seems the case.
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Old May 1st, 2004, 02:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adnil
That won't help I think. Once an abuser, always an abuser. For JR, that seems the case.
No Linda, a "person on moral probation". Always, no. But for The Time being, certainly someone to keep an eye on. Re. Richard, I've already given a plausle theory: he wants to give his own kids a normal relationship with Grandpa. To me its a copout, others will differ, so we can "agree to disagree". But it means his blue skies descriptions are "tainted evidence".

Re. continued abuse, Petr indeed may never Have Hit Misa. However, it Was Witnessed by Dutch reporters (and aired on the NOS special?) that among The Tirades Capfan is so dismissive of were phrases (in public, no less) re. Poor Play by her like "....I'm gonna whup you when we get home".

To me (apart from being the crime of "menacing" I presume is on the books in NED; and especially given his record of having carried it out with Richard) it's not 2B dismissed as some kind of harmless joke; hell, publicly humiliating a kid due to her performance on court is disgraceful anyway!

And on the language thing, Linda you're far too intelligent for the "pretzel logic" above. By all means, write in Dutch here. (Did I object)? But respect your "non honourary citizens ala Sarah" guests, too when they visit. Lastly, I well remember posts by others here essentially saying "we can't do anything about Petr, so lets just root for Misa.

I see no virtue in ppl stickin their heads in the sand like ostriches. And the "screw it, just let her win" bit re. Patty, Dani (when she had the eating disorder last year) etc. is treating players like whores, IMO ("we pay, you play"). Even with Lina K's liver disease, all most of the fucking infants care about is her career, not whether it could require a transplant, or shorten her life! Think about THAT Capfan B4 you use the old line "Get a Life". :retard:
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Old May 1st, 2004, 03:19 PM   #19
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if there's one person not stcking his head in the sand it's me Jolly. I've always been a huge fan of JenJen en what her dad and the media put her through was just horrible and has made me very aware of tennis parents. But I can honestly say from everything I hear and say about and from Misa, her dad and Richard that there is no problem with Misa and her dad. Richard Krajicek is probably more reliable than anyone else in this issue...he HATED his dad for what he did to him, he even said at one point he wouldnt even care if his dad died and hed never speak to him again. I am absolutely sure that if Petr abuses Misa (in no matter what form) Richard would instantly turn away from him again. He would NEVER allow his own kids to grow up with a grandfather that is abusing his child (Misa) You have to give people a 2nd chance
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Old May 1st, 2004, 03:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger
No Linda, a "person on moral probation". Always, no. But for The Time being, certainly someone to keep an eye on. Re. Richard, I've already given a plausle theory: he wants to give his own kids a normal relationship with Grandpa. To me its a copout, others will differ, so we can "agree to disagree". But it means his blue skies descriptions are "tainted evidence".
Do you know how Richard and Petr got back in contact? Petr went up to Richards home, Richard didn't want contact at first, but his wife persuaded him to try it, which he did. With the idea that if Petr hadn't changed, he'd given up contact.

Quote:
Re. continued abuse, Petr indeed may never Have Hit Misa. However, it Was Witnessed by Dutch reporters (and aired on the NOS special?) that among The Tirades Capfan is so dismissive of were phrases (in public, no less) re. Poor Play by her like "....I'm gonna whup you when we get home".
That was 1 time in like 6 months. Which coach never shouts at his pupil in 6 months time?

Quote:
And on the language thing, Linda you're far too intelligent for the "pretzel logic" above. By all means, write in Dutch here. (Did I object)? But respect your "non honourary citizens ala Sarah" guests, too when they visit. Lastly, I well remember posts by others here essentially saying "we can't do anything about Petr, so lets just root for Misa.

I see no virtue in ppl stickin their heads in the sand like ostriches. And the "screw it, just let her win" bit re. Patty, Dani (when she had the eating disorder last year) etc. is treating players like whores, IMO ("we pay, you play"). Even with Lina K's liver disease, all most of the fucking infants care about is her career, not whether it could require a transplant, or shorten her life! Think about THAT Capfan B4 you use the old line "Get a Life". :retard:
we stick our heads in the sand? No, we just don't want to panick over absolutely no evidence (at the moment).

You're saying we don't respect foreigners in here? Because once nobody replied to your post? That is sad Plus, we hardly have any more info about Misa than you anyway. Dutch media isn't much tennis orientated.
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Old May 1st, 2004, 06:59 PM   #21
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by adnil
That was 1 time in like 6 months. Which coach never shouts at his pupil in 6 months time? (replying to my quote where IN PUBLIC he threatened to "whup her...".
OK. Now if a parent WITHOUT what lawyers call "predicate" (a past history of the same criminal behavior) did that ONCE (that we KNOW about, of course) MAYBE it would only be "a person having a bad day". But given Petr's history, it was child abuse AND menacing, both crimes (esp. with a "captive victim").

NED wants to host international criminal trials in Den Haag? OK with me. But Is It so jealous of its neighbor To The south that "anything goes" re. developing a tennis rival to Kim and Juju? And Again Linda, you're a very smart person. So when you selectively omit WHAT Petr did (@ least) "...1 time in 6 months " you're being "too clever by half".

Capfan, I accept that you're sincere about the way Jen was used As A kid. However, NEITHER you nor Linda answered the ova-all point about "virtual prostitution": various fan groups on this board having a "...Win Whatever..." attitude, whether ignoring Patty's Problem's, Dani's eating disorder, EVEN Lina's (hopefully not life-endangering) ailment, etc. Do note: THE PLAYERS ARE PEOPLE FIRST!!!

Lets discuss Capfan's point that Petr deserves a 2nd chance. As A public figure, does he not have a moral obligation to publicly Come Clean (instead of blowing up @ reporters as in the NOS documentary)? And re. the non-reply thing, you contradict yourelf, Linda:

"I just didn't reply to your post because I don't know anything about Petr's behaviour right now. I suppose that means good news because if I would have misbehaved I might have heard it." (My post was mainly complimenting her strong return, NOT about Petr).

The reason we post in Dutch is because there's hardly anyone who doesn't speak our language in here - you pop in sometimes, so does Aaron but it's not much. I guess it's natural to talk our own language then." (You had a "tourist visitor" you know. If you get so few, that's all the more reason to Show Some hospitality).

You're saying we don't respect foreigners in here? Because once nobody replied to your post? That is sad Plus, we hardly have any more info about Misa than you anyway. Dutch media isn't much tennis orientated. (Add my two replies above together).

Linda, you can parse sentences from now until Anna K. wins a Slam, but it doesn't change the sum total of this little 3 way debate: That The Facts Fully support what I posted, regardless of what's popular, what ppl may say about why I raised all this, etc.
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Old May 1st, 2004, 07:02 PM   #22
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Old May 2nd, 2004, 01:49 AM   #23
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I apologize to everyone (particularly Linda) for my use of the name of Pym Fortune in Post 12 above. The rest of what I posted ITT stands, and is especially disappointing to have (IMO) needed 2B said, because of the continuing respect I have for Linda. And I continue to wish Misa only the best, in both tennis and in "real life".
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Old May 2nd, 2004, 04:14 AM   #24
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ooh...when did I become an honorary Dutch citizen??? I missed my induction!

JR, if you ask us to translate, most people will willingly do it - Aaron has done that too and even I have translated some stuff for him. I do sometimes find it hard with all the Dutch in here too, but if I wanna know something I just ask what they were saying!
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Old May 2nd, 2004, 08:34 AM   #25
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JR, I'm gonna ignore that post above and just reply to yout PM.
Oh and about Pim Fortuyn (that's his name, but good try ) - I don't think you can judge about him, or talk about his ideas and the way he was treated without knowing the full story, and that is hard when you don't live here. Things aren't black-white
I was suprised at the mention, not mad or anything.
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Old May 2nd, 2004, 07:59 PM   #26
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I'm glad peace has returned To The war-torn Netherlands. Thanks for the nice PM Linda; BTW I Still Say I can Tell That you're very intelligent! Just a quick Clarification Comparing Daddy Dearest To "Typical Tennis parents" (and junior coaches in general). Most don't yell physical threats @ the kids (esp. relevant because of His History with Richard).
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Old May 3rd, 2004, 11:15 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger
I'm glad peace has returned To The war-torn Netherlands. Thanks for the nice PM Linda; BTW I Still Say I can Tell That you're very intelligent! Just a quick Clarification Comparing Daddy Dearest To "Typical Tennis parents" (and junior coaches in general). Most don't yell physical threats @ the kids (esp. relevant because of His History with Richard).
A threat is not the same as a deed, but can we let it rest please?
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Old May 12th, 2004, 01:30 AM   #28
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Besides the Junior Slams, what's Misa got coming up? (So I can arrange to have PTT "monitored").
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