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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 03:32 AM   #61
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yes, '83 slims and '84 amelia...those were both 0 & 2 to Martina, and are her worst career results. She never failed to get at least THREE games against anyone in any match besides these.

The '84 amelia was very tough, indeed...she says it was one of her most nervous matches ever...on clay, her home court, & martina had never beaten her on clay before! But it was clear that martina was ahead in that rivalry (the terrible 83-84 years) and chris had nothing to gain but to try not being embarrassed. She knew in advance there would be wounded pride to lose to MN on clay for the first time (which is not a great attitude walking into the match with), because it underscored chris was not up to her speed, officially, on any surface. And her nerves did get the best of her, as she was likewise adjusting to the new graphite racquet, which served her much better on the fast indoor surface a month earlier, than on clay where she needed her touch instead of power, and she just hadn't mastered the new racquet and hitting the shots differently than with wood; clay gives you that extra bit of time to think and make a mistake if you're not hitting with certainty. Ooo, it was dreadful.

But does anyone know why clay was not likewise Tracy's best surface?? I think someone on this thread said it was her WORST surface!! Which is hard to imagine, since her game wasn't suited to grass at all, and she was very patient and was not a lapse-in-concentration player...I'd love some insight into Tracy's clay record.

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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 05:01 AM   #62
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Tommystar, thanks very much for that interesting statistic, where did you get it from??

Can anyone give me that link to ITF doubles database? Thanks
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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 05:29 AM   #63
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Andy, I think Daze is quite right, Tracy wanted to get matchfit by playing doubles, therefore the delay of her comeback in singles. But even when she returned in singles in spring 89 she seemed to be quite hesitant about it, the care accident happened in August, Austin didn't manage to play more than 2 tournaments from March to August...

B-J. King was once that Austin is afraid of coming back and I think there's some truth in it (Tracy denies it). It was the fear of losing to players a player with her talent should beat easily.

Daze, I think hardcourt was Tracy's favorite surface because she grew up playing on it. Clay also suited her game well, she won lots of tournaments on clay. If there is a "worst" surface for her, it was probably grass.
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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 07:12 AM   #64
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Great reading here chaps: thanks! What proportion of alll those double bagels came on clay, daze, any idea? I'd imagine it was pretty high. As far as I can see, only Richey, Goolagong, Jaeger and Navratilova ever managed to beat Chris twice on clay in one single season. There can't be many more who beat her twice on clay period.

Re Tracy, she played relatively little on clay during her short career. It seems as if the European clay court season coincided with her periods of injury. That said, she was Italian Open Champ in 79, and Family Circle Cup Champ in 79 and 80, so even if she didn't win RG, she won the next best two.
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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 01:13 PM   #65
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That makes sense...i think the interpretation of tracy's worst surface (everyone does have a worst surface) as clay was coming from someone who may have seen how few titles she had on clay, but that explains why.

Chris double-bageled on hard court nearly as much as clay. There were a lot on grass and indoor, but certainly the majority was HC & clay. So much talk about her clay record draws attention away from her very impressive hard court stats...she was bad (relatively) on INDOOR hardcourt, but very sturdy outdoors where there were no problems with light-glare.

Her first win over navratilova coming out of the slump was 6-2 6-4 on hard court in Jan '85 and her 6-2 6-1 win over Martina at LA in '87 was also hardcourt. She just didnt win 197 out of 198 on hard court as on clay. Once she switched from wood i dont think clay was much of an advantage over hard court. (Though, I admit, her first lost came to steffi on CLAY, but she had 3 wins against her on clay previous, and i do kind-of wish chris would've had that extra moment of time on that surface to face her before she retired, but it never happened again. So I guess i should say it depending who she was playing which surface was better!!!)

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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 03:30 PM   #66
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Hi Daze11,
yea but it is always important to remember that Steffi was next generation for Chris and Martina and therefore we mustn't be too worried about h2h with Steffi. Normally there are about 7-10 years between each wave. Bueno/Court/King were born 1939-42-43 and Evonne, Chrissie and Martina were 1951-54-56. Steffi, Sanchez and Seles were late: 1969-73. Comparing Chris and Steffi or Martina and Monica is like comparing Chris and Martina to Maria Bueno! The fact that those two were around long enough even to allow people to compare is extraordinary.
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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 04:01 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1
Tommystar, thanks very much for that interesting statistic, where did you get it from??

Can anyone give me that link to ITF doubles database? Thanks
Hi, Robert!

It's from the ITF database!
I opened a whole thread when I find out how to call forth the old results from that site.
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=98993
It's not the easiest and the most understandable description, but I can get the results of anyone, even if I can't explain how to do that.
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Old Feb 25th, 2004, 05:21 PM   #68
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Awww...Andy, go ahead...shelter her from the storm... haha...
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Old Feb 28th, 2004, 03:26 AM   #69
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you know how we were just talking about how astute chris was about upcoming players like graf and seles before perhaps others had 'figured out' they were 'the real deal'.

well, this may say something about the rivalry, if you consider being the real deal by knowing it when you see it, without having the press (or results) tell you in advance what to think.

says tracy...
Originally Posted by darren cahill
'shes not so special...we have hundreds like her back in the states'

Tracy Austin on Steffi Graf in 1982 after Tracy played her in the 1st round of an event in Germany....Tracy won 64 60
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Old Feb 28th, 2004, 05:27 AM   #70
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I wouldn't necessarily put Seles and Graf into one generation: Graf played her first tournament in 1982, there were players like King, Austin, Jaeger around. When Seles played her first year as a professional 7 (!) years later those players were long gone, topplayers then were Sabatini, Graf, Sanchez.

I remember Tracy making that remark on Graf, hehe.
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Old Feb 28th, 2004, 11:08 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Rollo
The car accident put an end to her comeback plans for good. It was a major accident.

I seem to remember Tracy Austin making yet another comeback possibly at the Australian Open in 1993 or 1994. It didn't last long, however. There was an article in the British press about it at the time, about how her love of the game kept bringing her back.
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Old Feb 28th, 2004, 01:10 PM   #72
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you're right...she did play in both 93 and 94...in 93 i dont believe she played in the majors though but played in several events...in 94 she played in both the Aussie open (lost in the 2nd round) and the french where she got clobberred in the 1st round... she also played Steffi in Indian Wells in the 2nd round and lost 60 60 and i have to believe Steffi was still remembering the 'there are hundreds like her' comment...
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Old Feb 28th, 2004, 01:37 PM   #73
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ok, after looking in my tracy austin collection ( ) i found those results....in the aussie open she beat Elna Reinach (god, remember her?) 61 75 and then lost to Sabine Hack in the 2nd round 61 57 62....i sort remember Sabine as well

at the French she lost to Marketa Kotcha 60 61 and then lost at Eastbourne to Kristine Kunce who i have to say i've never even heard of...no wonder tracy called it a day!
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Old Feb 28th, 2004, 02:24 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darren cahill
ok, after looking in my tracy austin collection ( ) i found those results....in the aussie open she beat Elna Reinach (god, remember her?) 61 75 and then lost to Sabine Hack in the 2nd round 61 57 62....i sort remember Sabine as well

at the French she lost to Marketa Kotcha 60 61 and then lost at Eastbourne to Kristine Kunce who i have to say i've never even heard of...no wonder tracy called it a day!
Kristine Kunce was better known as Kristine Radford, a good Aussie grasscourt player who took out Navratilova 26 64 63 in the last 16 at Brimingham Edgbaston in 1993, Darren. There can't be many who can say they've have posted wins over Tracy and Martina in their careers!
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Old Feb 28th, 2004, 02:29 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Kristine Kunce was better known as Kristine Radford, a good Aussie grasscourt player who took out Navratilova 26 64 63 in the last 16 at Brimingham Edgbaston in 1993, Darren. There can't be many who can say they've have posted wins over Tracy and Martina in their careers!
well i guess you put me in my place...

i didnt realize they were the same person....i'm not that up to par on my Kristine Radford info! but i do remember her now....wasnt there some sort of story there like martina gave her a pair of her own shoes to wear cause she didnt have any or something like that?
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