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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 08:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorofan
His game is chock full of surprises and he mixes things up wonderfully. He serves and volleys on second serves and cuts the giants of the game (like Safin for one) down to size with a tremendous array of tactical brilliance (spin variety, drop shots, angled lob and mixed up pace)
It's what we power hitters call a pusher or a dinker, not that is in any way less respectable. Many fine players have made careers out of this style- Arantxa Sanchez Vicario and Ken Rosewall are probably the two most successful at junk balling a big hitter to death. Fabrice has beaten both Sampras and Agassi (among many other greats) using this style of play. It has a definite place in the history of our great sport.

Sorry if my butt reference offended you. I was just trying to add a positive by noting one thing that keeps me coming back to a Fabrice Santoro match!
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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 09:08 PM   #17
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These oldies and their whining....so cute! Get over it....your time´s passed. Now it is a new game. If you don´t enjoy it, then don´t watch it no. Just like it used to be in the old days: Nobody watching.
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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 11:06 PM   #18
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Agreed. "I'm so glad to have come up in tennis when I did. Now it's very different. It's just like a big baseball game." - C. Evert





justine has won 3 of the last 4 slams. serena fans: FRUSTRATED!

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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 11:38 PM   #19
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sorry y'all...had to put that little dig in there...that last post was some nutty serena fan who's having problems accepting that serena is not #1. i thought the contemptuous tone of her albeit teen-posting was worth at least 1 good crack...with my old man cane.

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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 11:40 PM   #20
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Alfajeffster - I think Sanchez Vicario would be an apt description of a "backboard" style (too many bloody moonballs!)* - never saw footage of Rosewall play though ('cept for brief slow motion clips) so I can't speak for him. I've always dreaded playing pushers, and a true pusher I could never enjoy watching. But concerning Santoro, my fav part about his game is his unique style, his feel (esp on volleys), as well as the crazy angles he's able to create on the tennis court - true artisry. However my definition of a pusher seems a bit different than yours - a pusher to me is someone that takes minimal risks, and generally lacks imagination and rarely hits a winner (wins points mostly off of unforced errors). On the men's side, the quinessential junkballer I guess might be someone like Brad Gilbert. I never found his matches too inspiring!

No offense taken, it's just that I pretty much fled the men's tennis forum cause every other thread on their general postings seems about so and so's body parts ("who's got the biggest *$#%?") to the point of ridiculousness, while some other sites which I thought had some potential (stevetennis.com) have become more like gay bashing central ("Who's the biggest fag in college tennis?") which of course is even worse. So that's why I ended up here!

*It drove Evert, for one, to 3rd round destruction at the '88 French...
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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 11:44 PM   #21
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Regarding Santoro

Regarding Santoro, someone let me know when he's on. Have never seen him (I was just sitting here watching my 1974 Rod Laver tape!) hahahahaha....

No, really, I'd like to see both his moves on court and, you know, in general...i might like his game. He sounds like GUGA, who I went nuts for when he came on with that "every-inch-of-the-court is my canvas" playing style. The pressure really must have proven too great a weight on him, as i dont think he ever progressed, as those late 90s French titles may have suggested he would.
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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 11:48 PM   #22
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Santorofan, no! haha...Chrissie just had a silly heel-spur at the french in 88. She had defaulted from the Italian open previous to the French (which you know, she never defaults), and then couldn't bring herself to pass up this major, knowing it may be her last chance to play. But she probably should have passed on it. She didn't even play the warm-ups to Wimbledon that year to acclamate herself to the grass because she wanted to heal the...heel.
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Old Feb 13th, 2004, 11:52 PM   #23
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And he's really right about this oogling of men comment, as i am guilty of it in this thread. It must come off just like a bunch of guys sitting around talking about Clijster's t**s. Let's keep it clean, and keep the homo-adrenaline in the homo thread...at least, that's what i think.
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Old Feb 14th, 2004, 12:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorofan
Alfajeffster - I think Sanchez Vicario would be an apt description of a "backboard" style (too many bloody moonballs!)* *It drove Evert, for one, to 3rd round destruction at the '88 French...
I am an ASV fan and am always jumping into to defend her but I do genuinely believe she was more than just a backboard and moonballer. Anna Pistolesi is someone who I woud say is a 'backboard' style player. You don't get to 2 Wimbledon finals on grass just by moonballing. I have never seen ASV's win over Chris so I do not know how ASV played, but I know she did moonball a lot more in the late 1980's. I am surprised Chris would be so distracted by it as she was the queen of consistency, but if moonballs were distracting Chris so much then surely that was just a smart play.
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Old Feb 14th, 2004, 12:08 AM   #25
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Daze 11 - when Seles played Vicario in the final of the ('99?) French, Chris was doing the commentating. At one point they played a few seconds of "highlights" from their '88 match and Chris could not bare to even watch - (stating, "Well at least she actually hits the ball more now.") public dissing Vicario's moonball ad nauseum strategy, which Chris, by late in her career, simply lacked the patience for. When Seles started trying to smash Vicario's moonballs in the air, double fisted from the baseline, Chris respectfully stated "When I played her I didn't have the guts to do what Monica's trying." However in the end, of course, Vicario won anyway...

Alright enough off-topic banter, back to Maggie Court...
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Old Feb 14th, 2004, 12:17 AM   #26
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On ASV: I'll give her this much - she had a great drop shot, lob and overhead smash. Her game wasn't very attractive to me personally but it was very effective. I cheered her against Graf every time they met..and was particularly impressed with her US Open victory.
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Old Feb 14th, 2004, 12:42 AM   #27
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Moonballing people to death was nearly the destruction of women's tennis being taken seriously. It is the opposite extreme of boredom --bringing this back to Court's comments-- to the all-power game...both 'strategies' take the tennis out of tennis.

Margaret Court also blames the failure to regulate racquet technology for the one-speed, one-style tennis of today on the ITF, saying, “They really should have done something about the racquets years ago.”

While I generally agree, i do have to ask whether people like Federer and Juan-Carlos Ferrero are an arguable challenge to the notion that the speed and power can't be negotiated back into a wide variety of shot-making and sophisticated play after all. Also, Justine has managed to neutralize the power and made intelligence and willpower the overwhelming element in her game.

While I make concessions to these players, I think they are by SO FAR the EXCEPTION in their ability to do this, that the general bias against the one big serve, followed by big-forehand put away, is still a valid generalization of the pro game. The reason it is worth discussing, and following up on this thread, is that if there is reason to identify when the TOOLS have outgrown the COURT (plus the player-injury point, which is a major factor...do we want to create and encourage a sport 'evolving' into something destructive to the body??!), then people need to speak up, or the machine keeps moving forward and nothing stands a chance of being improved. It's like an alcoholic not recognizing they are going into a downward spiral.

If 100 players can sign a petition like that at Wimbledon, then its not a 'pie in the sky' dream that something may change. In baseball, aluminum bats were allowed until everyone started saying 'its too easy to hit a homerun; this is not fair.' (bringing it back to the 'big baseball game' quote) and they changed it back to wood. (...just like our pros should...)
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Old Feb 14th, 2004, 01:49 AM   #28
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Problem is, only Johnny Mac has been real outspoken on the issue..at least that's been my impression so far. He wants the sport to go back to wood but I just can't see it happening. The manufacturers, for one, would go apeshit - and there's no incentive for them to cooperate.
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Old Feb 14th, 2004, 10:25 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daze11
Agreed. "I'm so glad to have come up in tennis when I did. Now it's very different. It's just like a big baseball game." - C. Evert





justine has won 3 of the last 4 slams. serena fans: FRUSTRATED!

Frustrated?! Frustrated because Serena ain´t playing, not because Justine is winning.....´cause the two are related. Serena plays, Justine doesn´t win. Serena doesn´t play, Justine does have chance to win.
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Old Feb 14th, 2004, 12:23 PM   #30
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Nobody watching Bandabou? How old are you dude? When Evert, King, Connors and Borg ruled in the 1970s tennis was on NETWORK TV. And I mean weekly, not once in a blue moon like now. Hell, I remember times when it was on more than one network at the same time. There was more women's tennis on TV then than now, and the courts were full of people playing.

It was called the tennis boom, and those of us around for it will tell you tennis has never been as popular since.


P.S.
I think today's stars would do just fine with wood-so don't take our comments as some kind of assault on the Williams sisters. Capriati is my fav, but she the tactical variety of a mechanical slingshot.
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