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SemiPova returns to flop in Doha. GSM Serena 6-3 6-2.

52K views 978 replies 76 participants last post by  Trih 
#1 · (Edited)


Seeds:

[1] Victoria Azarenka
[2] Serena Williams
[3] Maria Sharapova
[4] Agnieszka Radwanska
[5] Angelique Kerber
[6] Sara Errani
[/] Li Na ankle injury
[7] Petra Kvitova
[8] Sam Stosur
[9] Marion Bartoli
[10] Caroline Wozniacki
[11] Nadia Petrova
[12] Ana Ivanovic
[13] Maria Kirilenko
[14] Dominika Cibulkova calf injury
[15] Roberta Vinci
[16] Sloane Stephens
[17] Lucie Safarova

Looming:
Jelena Jankovic
Venus Williams back injury

MIA:
Julia Goerges
Li Na
Dominika Cibulkova
 
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2
#907 ·
Yeah...the history repeated itself, I have strong feeling that Maria will never beat her again:hysteric: hope I am wrong. I decided not to watch the match, but now watching the stats, how Maria could lose? Her figures are better in most cases?:confused: and did she play better or worse than at YEC?
 
#908 ·
It was about performing in the big moments. Serena was a bit sloppy and not even close to playing her best, but when Maria had little openings here and there, Serena would come up with the big shot or Maria would make a dumb mistake every single time.

I'd say Maria played worse here compared to Istanbul. Even though Maria had more opportunities in this match compared to YEC, the way she blew all of them was disgusting. But, then again, all of her performances against Serena lately are starting to appear the same. She looks overmatched, helpless, and error-prone.
 
#909 ·
Mexicola with all due respect they've earned nothing. Serena has earned everything. For them to act how they do and be so arrogant like they're better than everyone else shows how pathetic they are. They're celebrating the loss of Maria and antagonizing her fans, NOT supporting Serena who deserves more credit than they give her.
 
#911 ·
Well, I hate to sound like a broken record, but for years a significant part of Maria's fanbase (and everyone else's, I admit) celebrated each Wozniacki loss much more than they did their own fave's victories and attempted to antagonize her fans to such a degree that some Woz fans still refuse to have anything to do with GM. This was of course not true for all Maria fans, but not all Serena fans mock Maria either. Those that do do it to such a degree that you get the impression that the're all doing it though. The ones that make the most noise and try to get under your skin always make more of a impression than the reasonable ones, and that goes for the members of each players' fanbase.
 
#915 ·
Guys, have you ever watched the H2H between Serena and all the other players than Maria?
You're talking like she's the only one Serena beats... :lol:
 
#917 ·
True. Very true, but Maria stands out as one who's faced off against Serena in a lot of important matches late in tournaments. It's a bit like Federer-Roddick. Federer owns lots of players almost as badly, but for some reason Roddick stood out as his worst victim.
 
#916 ·
GM is not a place to hang out when Maria's facing Serena if you're easily annoyed by trolls :tears:.
 
#924 ·
Maria :hug:

Serena leads Head To Head 11-2. Last time Maria won was 2004 :lol:
 
#927 · (Edited)
Well, I agree with dsanders that Maria's problems are mostly psychological. Not that Serena isn't the better player because she is, but for Maria to be so totally dominated by her is not normal. Although Federer owned Roddick at least Andy won sets and was in some competitive matches with Roger. Roddick's problems weren't mental. Federer was just a better player. The only way out that I see for Maria is beating Serena on red clay. IF she would be able to do that (and it's a big if) perhaps that mental block she's suffering from might disappear.
 
#933 ·
I agree with dsanders that a sports psychologist would do her good I was actually about to post that too :hi5: because especially in this match if it wasn't for her brain getting in the way she had some solid chances :sobbing: However i don't understand why so many of you are so negative and it's not like the Serena phenomenon is something new. She couldn't even get a win against her in 2008 when she was arguably playing the best tennis of her career so that's nothing new really :shrug: and even though the score didn't show it I thought it was really close it's not like she couldn't do anything against Serena but like Maria'd say she didn't take her chances when she had them. About Vika they haven't played yet this year so we don't know how that match-up will go but she beat her at the YEC and I think it'll be a lot closer this year. Also I think there are a lot of improvements to her game this year especially the serve and ROS and she isn't playing worse than last year so no need to lose faith :lol: i'm positive that the results will come in the near future.
I mean, I don't think it's JUST a case of her having a mental block against Serena specifically (although I'm sure that's an element of it), I think it's also part of the general pattern over the past 2 years of her wanting something too much. I mean, I don't mean in a perfect world she would NEVER be suffering blowout losses -- for such a relatively "one-dimensional" player as her, it's inevitable that atleast occasionally her A-game would be off and thus she'd have nothing to rely on. It occasionally happened in her pre-surgery career (obviously those beatdowns from Hingis and Davenport stand out as TOTAL outliers in their head-to-heads), and it also happened to Seles, who was as mentally tough as they came but like Maria, didn't have good movement or variety, so when her ballstriking was completely off, she was on the wrong end of some VERY grisly scorelines. So even in a perfect world, some losses of this nature would occur occasionally.

But that should only be happening if her game is off from the start of a tournament. As Chrissiefan has said, it's really not logical for her to be playing so great and winning so easily, only for her game to completely evaporate in the later rounds, as it has done so many times against Serena, Azarenka, and especially Radwanska in that Miami final (it really was so bizarre to see a big-point player like Maria hit gimme returns well wide everytime she held a breakpoint in that match). Tbh, in retrospect part of me is actually amazed she was as calm as she was and played so well in that Roland Garros final.

I mean, this is an issue that can potentially be overcome -- Serena herself really blew some matches in 2008 in particular, where she'd be playing great in the early rounds and then want it so bad in the later rounds that she couldn't get out of her own way...but she eventually overcame it. Murray too managed to learn to relax a bit in big matches after starting work with a sports psychologist (I don't mean all of his big-match losses were because of him choking, because the Big 3 at their best are better, but there were definitely a couple of Slam semifinals against a 'meh' Nadal in 2012 which were Murray's for the taking). I do believe she as such a mentally tough character in general can overcome it, but she needs to be brave enough to step out of her comfort zone and admit she needs 'help', because what she's been trying up til now isn't working and isn't going to start magically working ("insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results").
 
#958 ·
Maria hasn't won a tournament off of clay in almost 2 years. In 2008, she won the AO in straight sets. She hasn't won a TITLE in straight sets since Memphis 2010.

So, to be blunt, her problems when facing Serena have much less to do with Serena being Serena and more to do with the fact that Sharapova just isn't in the form that she was in when she was won those 6 sets in her career over Serena. She's got her own business to take care of before she can even think about beating Serena again.
A rare gem from a pile of rubbish that is the GM result thread. Couldn't have said it better myself. I think most of us, including Maria herself, seem to be getting carried away with the whole "She has to beat Serena1111" mantra. The problem is not just Serena, but Maria herself and her game.

:sad: Hopefully Masha will get at least one win over Serena this year :yeah:
I like your avatar! Vintagepova :)

GM is a kindergarten. I went briefly through the results thread and it's worse than I expected. Those Serena trolls seem to have nothing better to do in life but to hate on every single player who dared to beat Serena in the past, the latest example being Sloane Stephens. Well, sad to see that Wimbly final is still under their skin :cuckoo:
Cheers AKB :wavey:
Funny thing is they are all Princess Solane's fans before Brisbane and now they disown poor girl like she killed their parents after AO :hug: They certainly ain't TENNIS FANS, but fairweather fans of players

Vika too, but she gets a pass cause of US final where she did nothing except benefiting from Serena's choke.
Good. Now choke on the bitter truth that is today's final and gag
 
#929 ·
I agree with dsanders that a sports psychologist would do her good I was actually about to post that too :hi5: because especially in this match if it wasn't for her brain getting in the way she had some solid chances :sobbing: However i don't understand why so many of you are so negative and it's not like the Serena phenomenon is something new. She couldn't even get a win against her in 2008 when she was arguably playing the best tennis of her career so that's nothing new really :shrug: and even though the score didn't show it I thought it was really close it's not like she couldn't do anything against Serena but like Maria'd say she didn't take her chances when she had them. About Vika they haven't played yet this year so we don't know how that match-up will go but she beat her at the YEC and I think it'll be a lot closer this year. Also I think there are a lot of improvements to her game this year especially the serve and ROS and she isn't playing worse than last year so no need to lose faith :lol: i'm positive that the results will come in the near future.
 
#930 ·
I had to leave at 3-3. Until then, it looked like Maria was heading to give Serena a good run for the money. Sadly, and once again, it did not happen.
Why is it that Maria finds herself incapable even to force Serena to a tight, battling match, I don't know. She has the talent, the will and the shots to give her a hard time. But when they meet, all this seems to almost disappear, and I'm afraid this might be a very difficult issue to solve (let alone figuring out how).
Hopefully, there will be better days ahead.
 
#938 ·
Can the start of this year go any worse? Vika repeats in Melbourne, repeats in Qatar, and gets her breakthrough against Serena a day after another Maria meltdown.

I was steadfast in my belief that Maria was still a better player than Azarenka. And I think, in terms of raw talent, she is better. But you can’t deny what Vika’s done over the past year and she’s clearly superior now. She is displaying belief, confidence, attitude, consistency, and movement that Maria can’t touch. So much more mentally tough. And she takes advantage of every opportunity she sees in matches. Serena played as sloppy today as she did yesterday. But while Maria gagged with every chance, Vika embraced them. She is a tremendous big point player now. Unlike Maria, you don’t see her beat herself anymore.

The gap is widening. Even though I saw it coming and predicted she would win today, it’s still hard to stomach.
 
#943 ·
There's hardly a great divide between Renka and Shar, but there's no denying that the former is currently the better player. Beating Serena does not give her great separation from Sharapova, especially a Serena who was not at top form. Tennis is all about match-ups. And Renka matches up better with Serena. They don't have as much history as Serena and Maria do. And in order to beat Serena, even a Serena not nearly at her best, you gotta be able to move. Shar can't. But before the WTA becomes all about the "big 2" Shar has got to get it together. I'm fearing that her lack of confidence against Serena and to a degree Azenrenka will bleed into her other match-ups and we might see her ranking slip further.
 
#947 ·
Nobody say beating one player makes the other one best. The way she tackled Li in AO-2013 final was too good to ignore. The way she handled yesterday Aga was superb. Maria also beaten Aga at last year YEC -2012 but the scoreline:help::help::help:. Also 2012 Maria has been regarded as better Maria after 2008.When did Vika was bagled by any player including Serena like Maria was bagled in hands of Rena at Olympics 2012(6-0,6-1 scoreline.)
 
#948 ·
I agree with both dsanders and TheDawnTreader in a way.
I do think it was necessary for Maria to add more spin on to her shots after the 2010 horror days because she just didn't have the serve or the consistency to play that offensively. However, it is definitely hurting her in her matchup with Vika and Serena on hard. I mean every time she just hits a FH off a big shot of Serena's I'm semi-cringing waiting to see how high the ball will bounce, knowing it's gonna land right in the strike zone.

And what Pavstry said is also completely correct, it just makes it worse that she hits it deep and central. Maybe the added spin wouldn't be as much of an issue if she actually used the lines but she doesn't, no angles, no width. Everything goes central.

I do think it might be time for Thomas to try and flatten out the strokes again, she has the serve to set them up these days, plus I feel like she's so stranded mentally a lot of the time, her instinct is to attack but Thomas has given her a slightly more conservative game so she get's confused between instincts and practice. Never moving forward, letting a lot of balls bounce first instead of drive volley, completely backtracking from the net and stranding herself mid court. We've all seen her do this in every match.

I do think her current game style needs to stay for the clay, there are very few people who will be able to beat her if she plays well on it. But I don't get why they don't seem to realise, different surface different tactics. I do know Thomas has said to her numerous times 'where are the angles we practiced?' so maybe it's just down to Maria not doing as instructed but I don't believe that would happen in every single match she plays.

While serve, movement, FH, have all seemed to improve this season for the most part. I think there's been a stagnation tactics wise. Maria just simply does not have the movement to defend spin loaded shots on a hard court like Nadal does. I really hope he does get her to flatten out her shots again, I mean she was doing it last OG very well so she can do it, it would would wonders for the nonexistent BH DTL. Before it comes to that though, I want to see what effect actually implementing the angles and using width can do for her vs. Serena and Vika.

It's tough I don't want the BBB 2010 inconsistency off the ground but she's always gonna come off a very distant second to Rena away from clay these days. This Maria can still beat Vika on her good days but as we've seen in those matches too, she wins the points where she steps in and flattens it out.
 
#951 · (Edited)
Maria's current game is perfectly adapted to clay, she's only ever going to be vulnerable playing timidly and poorly against a BBB (see RG 2012 R4). That or if she plays Stosur/Li and a couple of others who are good on clay also as they are basically the only ones who can do anything against her if her is game is on on the surface.

In fact game wise the only weakness is that you can still exploit her movement to the FH side but I hope she masters the slide into it this season, and develops a legitimate FH slice.

EDIT: To elaborate, everything just suits her game on clay. She's more time to set up and the higher bounce is right in her strike zone so she can really lay into the ball and actually hit the lines unlike on hard, plus she takes advantage of the bounce, loading on the spin especially on her FH side. There were numerous points last year where her opponents were there in time to get the ball, the problem was it was almost over their head, plus it allows her to use heavy spin and pace while still giving herself good margin for error until the right opening comes meaning her balls can't be attacked while she doesn't risk needlessly over doing it. AND she uses angles on clay.

Also, this isn't aimed at anyone in here but the whole 'how the mighty have fallen' attitude from GM tards when we look forward to the clay never fails to amuse me. I love how that Maria is the best on clay, I always wanted her to maximize her game on it and it is only more impressive considering how she started off on the surface. Last season was surreal yes, but there's no shame in clay being Maria's best surface just because it didn't used to be.
 
#954 ·
I agree with Mexicola/Craigster to some extent. Where I disagree is I still think, in terms of game, she is capable of being better than Princessrenka, on the basis of what she's shown on her best days over the past 12 months -- but it's hard to argue with results, and Princess has just been that bit better in virtually every aspect than Maria since 2012 :shrug:


(Gosh, I'm starting to sound like an Ivanovic stan by ascribing everything to Maria's mentality :eek: )
 
#959 ·
Well, I still think it's a mental thing.
Not so much about Serena, but mostly about her shoulder. She's never been the same after her shoulder injury. At least not with her 'I'm gonna beat you no matter how good you play' attitude she had back in the day.

There is a reason why players are never the same after having surgery. I'm just happy Maria got her career Slam, and still has the potential to win more.
But she has to work on whatever is holding her back, and I don't think she needs to look at her game for that.
 
#961 ·
That's the thing, I am not bitter at all about Serena. Yes, she and her fans can be a bit too much but I respect her for her amazing ability. It's up to Maria to bring the goods against her so there's really no point in being bitter towards Serena.

I was watching some 2008 highlights there, I actually feel that in some ways Maria's BH is better, if she could only hit it down the line. I honestly feel if she would just commit to going for the lines more she wouldn't be far off that form, even if she isn't as consistent. I think the problems in her game are really just basic and tactical ones at this stage. They really shouldn't be hard to iron out with commitment and dedication to recognising them and tackling them from herself and her team.
 
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