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Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

355K views 5K replies 85 participants last post by  James 
#1 ·
The last volume has passed 5000 posts, time to start a new one. It's not the most positive of times with Caro just losing the #1 ranking and firing her coach, but while there isn't much we can do about that we can at least try to keep a civil tone here, even if we're somewhat frustrated about the way Caro's career is going right now. Ok?



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#4,286 ·
Given that Caro has played 3 weeks in a row I think it's reasonable that she take a couple of days off before training again. Hopefully those days off don't involve golf courses though. :p

Assuming Caro does play Moscow I hope that she can build upon her match with Kerber. When Caro's played good matches this year she's tended to not followup on that match and regress a lot from that match.
 
#4,289 ·
Given that Caro has played 3 weeks in a row I think it's reasonable that she take a couple of days off before training again. Hopefully those days off don't involve golf courses though. :p

Assuming Caro does play Moscow I hope that she can build upon her match with Kerber. When Caro's played good matches this year she's tended to not followup on that match and regress a lot from that match.
Yes. I'd expect Caro to play Moscow because she asked for a wild card and got it and now to turn it down would be bad. Unlike some players, I've not known Caro not to keep her committements unless impossible with injury. So I hope she does keep her committment and also really tries to play well there.
 
#4,290 ·
I think she's going to play. Moscow and Sofia are last two chances to get back to top 10 before the end of the season so I doubt she won't use them. She needs to get more wins under her belt,right now she probably must be feeling pretty down. And it'd be nice to take home at least one more trophy this year.

I don't see her retiring anytime soon. She's not the first player to lose her spark for a while. Next year will be challenging for her because whereas in the past she didn't really have a reason to change things in her game now she definitely has it. She took a gamble with all the changes she decided to try to implement in her game and it did not work out. I'm curious to see what will be her reaction on that in 2013- will she continue with developing attacking game or will she go back to the style based more on defense?
 
#4,297 · (Edited)
Its not just the old style. Its also effort level.
If she wanted to make the YEC, there were 2 Premiers in US after Wimbledon. Coco Vandeweghe was in one final & Cibulkova won the other.
Instead of taking a month vacation after losing round 1 at Wimbledon & losing round 1 Eastbourne, she should have gone straight to the US and played 2 Premiers that had Intl level fields.

Thats just as worrisome as all the sloppy errors at key moments and the losses that were close and might have been wins if she played steadier.
Its the 'want to'. You have to want it bad, and going 2 full months without a match win in the middle of the season while healthy, you dont deserve to be playing in the YEC

All the errors, and vacations, it comes down to the mental side. She still can physical play at a high level. She has to fight for it while playing smart.
At break point when you get a short lob return, you cant muff that point. Any weekend hacker would let that bounce, see where Aga was standing, and tap it in the open court

But this year is over, except that she can finish with some wins while not playing the YEC.
Next year we'll see how much she wants it. Starting with the AO
 
#4,299 ·
We recently had this disagreement but I don't think that it was a mistake for Caroline to take a break after Wimbledon. Her schedule in 2012 was just as heavy as it was in 2010 and 2011, players can play too much and wear themselves out. True, she isn't having deep runs and she's played far fewer matches this season but the travel also takes a toll on players. You also need to consider the reality that even if she had played those two small premiers that she may have lost early. How much good would that have done her going in to the bigger premier events and the U.S. Open? Most people seem to agree that Caroline played too much in the 2011 clay season and that she didn't have much left at Roland Garros, I think something similar may have happened if she had played Stanford and/or Carlsbad and then the Olympics/Montreal/Cincinnati/New Haven/U.S. Open. That is an awful lot of tennis/travel.
 
#4,300 ·
One positive about this year is that it wasnt a hard year. She had a lot of vacation time, and should have fresh legs and no burnout next year
But thats tennis. If you're doing well, you have to play long hard weeks with tough matches against good players.
When you lose early all year, thats not a problem
 
#4,303 ·
For those "FANS" that think that CW's Rory romance is ruining her game, don't hold your breath waiting for an imminent breakup. Maybe better to find a new player to follow ??

I heard some gossip from a golf Pro yesterday. It seems that Rory after selling his property in N Ireland, has bought a property in or near Monaco and has got the Irish guy Ron forgot last name?? Pro Golf course architect who designed the Royal Copenhagen Golf Club course, to design a similar practice setup to the one he had in NI.
House with presumably quite a bit of land.

They were only interested in Golf and the technical aspects and had never heard of CW, so couldn't say if she would be moving in or what.
But anyway unless they think of themselves as a pretty permanent item why go there?
 
#4,304 ·
I heard some gossip from a golf Pro yesterday. It seems that Rory after selling his property in N Ireland, has bought a property in or near Monaco and has got the Irish guy Ron forgot last name?? Pro Golf course architect who designed the Royal Copenhagen Golf Club course, to design a similar practice setup to the one he had in NI.
House with presumably quite a bit of land.
A property in Monaco with the land to built your own golf course? Hmmm. Colour me skeptical. I have a vivid imagination, but trying to image what such a property (if at all exits) would trade for, has made me dizzy.

Around Monaco would be in France or Italy. Wonderful area on both sides, but defies the purpose of Monaco (tax haven) and with France' new top tax and wealth tax, I 'd find it hard to believe, either Caro or Rory or both will take domicile in France. Italy. Not much better.
 
#4,305 ·
I thought they were heading for Florida?

Whatever, I have no hope regarding this ending anytime soon. And as far as finding other players, that's not necessary, but I do have to say, I have adjusted my expectations (and subsequentially my enthusiasm) in the past few months.

Until a year or so ago, I was 100% convinced that she was determined to become one of the greatest players. You know, win slam finals, reach three digit #1 weeks etc. I would have bet money on that simply because she wanted it so much.

Those days are gone, her determination has taken a visible hit and so has my hope of her ever getting there. I think this has happened to pretty much all of us in in here in some form of another. If you look at how the reactions have changed during the past 12 months, even 1R losses are mostly met by "meh" these days.

Once she really starts caring again, I'm happy to go along. This is kind of a two-way street, if an athlete tries it's easy to be excited... but disappearing to the golf course after a R1 slam loss isn't really the way to keep your fans' spirits up.
 
#4,307 ·
If Caro doesnt play at the YEC, she probably has a shot at 2 more titles this year.
She wont be playing the top 8 and a lot of the players still left are worn out & looking forward to offseason
I still think she has to go after every win she can.
This slump is self inflicted. Nobody else falls apart because they're trying to improve, maybe just Jankovic. But Jelena was older and maybe worn down.

Caroline didnt have a major injury. Nothing seriously bad happened, where she has some reason to fall far off the top.

So I still say she needs wins and to keep playing. To get into that 2010-11 flow where she expects to win all week, not watch golf or vacation for months
 
#4,312 ·
I think its always going to be debatable, but I thought Caro was playing at a very high level at Tokyo, Beijing, YEC 2010. She beat Azarenka, Dementieva, Radwanska, Zvonareva, Kvitova, Schiavone. Was very close in the YEC final vs Kim.I thought the same in the spring of 2011. Dubai, IW...I thought her level of play at IW would win majors. Back then I thought the problem at majors was mental. She just needed 1 decent 1st serve to close out Li. Maybe she shouldnt play New Haven and was worn down against Vera in 2010 USO SF, played in the wind.But I thought Caro could beat everyone on tour but Serena & Kim. No one else could beat them either. Caro's a lot younger...But now she is so far from that. When you read AO previews, they wont even mention Caro. She's made herself a non contender at slams. She is more of a golf watcher during majors
 
#4,313 ·
Well,Caro WAS at a high level...and still IS at a high level when you consider that she's superior to 99.9% of female tennis players on the planet...but the evidence doesn't support your inaccurate reveries of a Caro who was supposedly on the brink of winning a Slam.Do you remember how you dismissed Caro's win over Serena as meaningless??Then why would you turn around and cite victories over the players you list above when our Sunshine wasn't able to get it done when it mattered most?There's a difference in beating someone at a Premier and doing it at a Slam,where a few of those aforementioned players dominated Caroline.THEY raised their levels even higher for the biggest events,and Caroline was powerless to stop them without a strong serve or attacking weapons that might throw them off their games.The wind and fatigue excuses for her loss to Vera are simply lame when you own up to the fact that BOTH players deal with the wind...and Caro looked plenty fresh at YEC a couple months later.

Let's take a look at the cold,hard truth of Caroline's slam results from USO 2009 to YEC 2011(after which she changed her style of play to the one that has caused such an uproar).As we can see,she lost to MANY other players besides Kim and Serena:
2009 USO Final, L to Clijsters...not competitive but,to be fair,it was her first slam final
2009 YEC, I'll give her a pass here cuz she was barely able to stand up straight
2010 AO, 6-4,6-3 4th Round loss to Li...not an embarrassing loss on paper,but she didn't even
pose any threat to Li in this match
2010 RG, 6-2,6-3 loss to Fran in the QFs....I admire Fran's scrappiness,but try to find any OTHER
matches where she so thoroughly dominated a world #1(though Caro was only #3 back then)
2010 Wimby, Absolutely annihilated by Kvitova...this match wasn't even remotely suspenseful
2010 USO, L to Vera....Have already mentioned how Vera,like JJ and my sweet Dinara,is an
almost ideal Slam SF foe,yet Caro couldn't even challenge her much that day
2010 YEC, Loss to Kim in the final....Another loss that's not shameful,but I went back and
checked the score of this match where Caro was,in your words,"close to beating Kim",
and the 3rd set score was 6-3...which suggests that Caro went out rather meekly
after getting that early break
2011 AO SF loss to Li....We can agree that this was a "good loss",but we DISagree over your
totally unfounded assertion that,with a win over Li,Caro would've been any
closer to winning the AO than Dinara was in the 2009 Final
2011 RG Pathetic loss to Dani...enough said
2011 Wimby Ditto,pathetic loss to Domi....utterly unworthy from a world #1
2011 USO Dominated by Serena in the semis...who then lost in straights to Stosur in
final,so the 'it was Serena' excuse just doesn't fly here:shrug:--Caro was
outclassed once more at a slam while world #1
2011 YEC Following an earlier RR loss to Bepa...dominated once more by Kvitova to get
eliminated from the event

Not counting the 2009 YEC(as stated above),that's ELEVEN slams from 2009 USO to 2011 YEC,
NINE of which yielded unacceptable losses for a world #1-caliber player(the exceptions being 2010 YEC and 2011 AO).Only THREE of those eleven losses came back against Kim or Serena,and several of the others were at least somewhat shameful...that's not bad luck,that's a PATTERN at Slams,and the numbers simply don't support your claim that Caro was about to break through.I loved celebrating Caroline's successes in 2010 and 2011...even the smaller Seoul crown from THIS year.Unfortunately,that earlier style of play was sufficient to take Premiers and go deep in Slams once in a while...just not enough to WIN them,barring a blessed encounter with an Errani-type in the final....and Caroline:angel: eventually figured that reality out
 
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#4,318 ·
Caro is still early in her career. If that 1 slam final is it, then she probably never had what it took (mentally) to win majors, no matter what style she plays.I think a lot of people think like bruce goose, that Caroline was never winning a major. It looks like they all were right. She is far far from winning a major now. This whole current situation, with a part time coach, who leaves after she loses round 1 at majors, so Caroline can go hang out at the golf course, it does look like majors are not the imperative for her.
 
#4,319 ·
Caro is still early in her career. If that 1 slam final is it, then she probably never had what it took (mentally) to win majors, no matter what style she plays.I think a lot of people think like bruce goose, that Caroline was never winning a major. It looks like they all were right. She is far far from winning a major now. This whole current situation, with a part time coach, who leaves after she loses round 1 at majors, so Caroline can go hang out at the golf course, it does look like majors are not the imperative for her.
Or is this all going according to some Machiavellian scheme? Perhaps Caroline wants the tennis illuminati and, more importantly, her competition to consider her a non factor then, BAM!, next thing you know Caroline wins the calendar grand slam in 2013 thereby having one of the greatest single seasons in the history of the game. Well, it could happen.:unsure:
 
#4,320 ·
While the season is not quite over we can assess one of Caroline's goals for 2012. I can't recall if it was Caroline or Piotr (perhaps it was both) who claimed that she was going to focus on the slams in 2012. Let's see, QF, third round, first round, first round...those are her worst results since 2007 when she lost in the first round once and the second round twice (she did not play at the 2007 Australian Open). I wish that someone would point that out to her and ask her to respond. It just seems so inexplicable that she has fallen so far so quickly.
 
#4,321 ·
While the season is not quite over we can assess one of Caroline's goals for 2012. I can't recall if it was Caroline or Piotr (perhaps it was both) who claimed that she was going to focus on the slams in 2012. Let's see, QF, third round, first round, first round...those are her worst results since 2007 when she lost in the first round once and the second round twice (she did not play at the 2007 Australian Open). I wish that someone would point that out to her and ask her to respond. It just seems so inexplicable that she has fallen so far so quickly.
You read her answers in the articles thread. But it doesnt matter what the reasons are. This was a wasted year at majors & Tier I's. From Montreal 2010- USO 2011 she won 5 Tier I's and was in 3 slam semis. Since 2011 USO ended, no slams semis and no premier finals.
So it doesnt matter what she says. How she responds in 2013 is all that matters.
 
#4,324 ·
Just learned that the Int. YEC will be using a RR format just like the big-time YEC;that has a bit more credibility than the laughable,8-player,single elimination format of the last couple years...and now I'm leaning towards the idea that ending the year with a title might provide a psychological boost for Caro...then again,maybe I'm just guilty of wishful thinking
 
#4,325 ·
I saw last year's final. Ivanovic easily beat AMG.
Its not a better tournament than Korea was, and Caro should do well.
She won only 12 of 22 matches over several months before Korea. She should have much fresher legs than most of them
 
#4,327 ·
Its for players who won an Intl. Goerges won Stuttgart in 2011, & she wasnt eligible. That was too big a tournament
 
#4,329 ·
What is Turkish Airlines thinking about Caro's year?


The WTA welcomed the announcement by the Bulgarian Tennis Federation (BTF) that Qatar Airways would be the title sponsor for the forthcoming Tournament of Champions, to be held at Arena Armeec in the Bulgarian capital of Sofia from October 30–November 4, 2012. Under the terms of the one-year deal, the event will officially be known as the Qatar Airways Tournament of Champions Sofia.

“We are thrilled that Qatar Airways has signed up as title sponsor of the Tournament of Champions,” said WTA Chairman & CEO Stacey Allaster. “Qatar Airways is a truly world class airline with a wonderful history of support for professional tennis, including the Qatar Ladies Open, our WTA Premier event in Doha . I congratulate the Bulgarian Tennis Federation for securing such a premium partner for the first staging of this event in Sofia .”
 
#4,331 ·
About 18 months ago, it seemed like Caro was agood bet to stay near the top.
She took every tournament very seriously.
All of her sponsors are probably concerned now.
 
#4,332 ·
As far as Turkish Airlines and what they must think and anyone else who has used her to promote themselves - I really couldn't care less. That is basically their problem. At some point in time - having gone from saying Caro as the world's #1 player to saying one of the top players - Turkish Airlines may well go to a new advert using someone else. That will simply be a business decision if they do that based on maximising their profits. And I don't need that to know whether she's doing well or not.

It's the same with any promotional work Caro has done. I don't feel sorry for Istanbul that they used Caro to promote the event and Caro hasn't qualified. They asked Caro and she's always been willing to do her bit and more.

No - that side of things doesn't really make ma happy, concerned or teally raise any emotion inside me at all. When she wins on the tennis court - I'm happy, when she loses I'm not - simple as that. At the end of the day - Caro's responsibility is only to herself. To really get the most out of herself on the tennis court. She owes that to herself.
 
#4,334 ·
I think Turkish airlines are not happy at all, she'll be basically advertising their competitor. On the other hand, if she wins another title that can only help her (and their) publicity.
I am also very curious about what way will she be heading playing-wise. If she watched todays final between Azarenka & Sharapova she'd probably regret abandoning her great defensive play. I think 2013 will be again about changes, at this point they probably have a lot to fix.
Here's hoping that Caro will once again become the old Caroline, who beat her opponents thanks to a rock-solid defense.
 
#4,338 ·
I think Turkish airlines are not happy at all, she'll be basically advertising their competitor. On the other hand, if she wins another title that can only help her (and their) publicity.
I am also very curious about what way will she be heading playing-wise. If she watched todays final between Azarenka & Sharapova she'd probably regret abandoning her great defensive play. I think 2013 will be again about changes, at this point they probably have a lot to fix.
Here's hoping that Caro will once again become the old Caroline, who beat her opponents thanks to a rock-solid defense.
Defense is what she did best. So when she's trying to improve, why does she stop doing the part of tennis she does best?
To me, thats the difficult part to understand.
Of course she wants to improve her serve, volley, forehand, but if she's not a steady, consistent, defensive player, then what is she?

Its a full year later and I still dont see where she's headed to, as a reckless, sloppy player, who makes unforced errors at key moments, match after match
 
#4,335 ·
The only problem with the above is that Caro's defense WASN'T that solid always;she was vulnerable to getting overpowered and smacked off the court even by limited BBs.Even if it didn't happen constantly,it's unacceptable for an elite player to be helpless against a fringe Top 20 player.

More importantly,the start of next season will show us,and everyone else,where Caro's fighting spirit truly is.Even legends go thru stretches where their passion wanes for a short time,but there's no way that Caro could be content with her rankings drop IF she had a burning passion to succeed.If it were only a so-so,lukewarm passion(sort of an oxymoron,I'll admit:lol:),THEN she could be somewhat bothered yet not quite motivated enough to put in the tough work on the road back.She'll have SOOOO much time to reflect on things in the offseason--regardless of how much she spends with Rory--and do a self-inventory.

If Caro comes out looking fiery and determined,then that alone will be a good sign,though it'll hopefully be accompanied by sound strategy....if she comes out seeming only mildly bothered by losses,then the doomsayers here will have fertile ground for their lamentations:help:.I'd like to think that Caro:angel: would never forsake her tennis dreams without an all-out fight
 
#4,336 ·
The only problem with the above is that Caro's defense WASN'T that solid always;she was vulnerable to getting overpowered and smacked off the court even by limited BBs.Even if it didn't happen constantly,it's unacceptable for an elite player to be helpless against a fringe Top 20 player.
This was the theory and was generally accepted as one of the ways you could beat Caro when she was beating almost everyone she played and had won 10 tournaments in 12 months. That you could beat Caro by blasting her off the court. And yes it was true in theory. The problem with that theory is that it rarely actually happened. If it was so simple - then why wasn't it regularly happening. I'm talking in particular about that 12 month stretch where she won 10 tournaments between Wimbledon 2010 - Wimbledon 2011.

We all know the most famous match where she was blasted off the court. Against Petra at Wimbledon 2010. The next 12 months - the best she played - I can't recall her being blasted off the court like that. She had losses - particluarly thinking of Kim, Vera and Li. But she had chances those matches and they were nothing like that Petra loss.

It was the theory you could beat her by doing a Petra - but it didn't happen. And the reason was that they could overpower her for a few games. But it's a totally different proposition to play lights out for a whole match agains a player who was as good as Caro was then and who in addition gifted you no free points.
 
#4,341 ·
I just checked out the ranking and saw that Caro's just a mere 500 points ahead of Ivanovic.

We always feared that she would be looking at a Ivanovic-type career and it looks like she's getting dramatically close to that.
The big points come from playing in big matches. When you lose a lot in round 1, and only win semis at Intl's (nothing above that), you're going to be where Caro is at.
She has about 1/3 as many points as Vika in the rankings.
Thats her level the last 12 months.

I think we'll know pretty early next year where her game is at. AO could be where she starts to come back, or her 4th straight week 1 loss at a major
 
#4,346 ·
I watched the Caro match this week and I have to agree. In the 1st set she was quite agressive, but missfired everything with her forehand. In the 2nd set she served better and hit some good shots, her ball went in and she was the dominating player, even though Kerber kind of mentally checked out.

The decisive set was pretty even with actions and errors from both of them.

Yep, Caro needs a proper game plan and not the alibi tennis she is playing now + she really seems to run into players when they are at their peak (Paszek, Begu etc.)

if you compare her game to the one that was working no later than one year ago the BH is more or less the same and the serve goes faster. They tried to flat her FH and now she just hits slightly harder than before, but barely ever deeper than the serviceline, almost as an absurd she was much more dangerous with her old loopy and really deep slow FH, than now with that wannabe aggressive shot, since the first was hard to be hit standing close to the baseline, the latter is just the perfect shot to sit on and hit over. Just my idea...
 
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