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Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
The last volume has passed 5000 posts, time to start a new one.

 
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#2,216 ·
What I don't understand is I thought at one point she and her team said she was going to try to go back to what she had, ie. as solid as a rock defensive game. Now it seems we're back where we were a year ago of taking on high risk shots, and Caro at least talking up a more aggressive game as the way forward :confused:.
 
#2,220 ·
Very lackluster effort after losing the 1st set, regress! :p
 
#2,224 ·
It's nice sentiment that the WTA outwardly shows Caro respect by acting as if it were a huge upset whenever a lower-ranked player beat her,but there's something very bullshitty about how they do it(which is par for the course:rolleyes:).

I can't recall how old Muhammad Ali was cuz I was just a little kid at the time,but he was clearly well past his prime when he came out of retirement to fight the then-current champion Larry Holmes.It wasn't even a contest,really,and the ref mercifully stopped the fight by TKO before Ali was hurt too badly(although,with the residual effect of blows to the head,only God knows exactly how much damage Ali incurred).

My point is that Holmes didn't brag about defeating the legend who was a shadow of his former self,and it wasn't because he feared backlash,nor did any respected members of the boxing media speak admiringly about Holmes' victory;either scenario would've been insulting to boxing fans everywhere......Yet that doesn't stop the WTA from foisting similar b.s. insults on tennis fans.

I recall reading a summary of the day's matches a couple years ago,and Julie Coin was amongst the winners.The f--king asskissers on the WTA webpage STILL made glowing reference to Coin's victory over the "world #1" back in 2008,even though it had long since been made crystal clear that that player was a pathetic slut,lying fraud and joke--a disgrace to the sport and an INSULT to every player who has ever battled back from adversity to preserve her career.The way that the WTA presented it,you'd have thought that Coin had beaten Graf,Court or one of the WS:rolleyes:,a REAL #1.If the WTA had carried the story,they'd have acted like Holmes beat the Ali from the 1960s who was in his athletic prime,and not the 40-year-old(guessing at the age)remnant of that legend.

Again,I don't know ANY other sports org. that bullshits like the WTA does,but it used to be a source of pride back when an upset of Caro was truly a big deal.Now that she's a recipient/beneficiary of the WTA's propaganda manure machine,it just adds a little more insult to the disappointment in seeing her struggle
 
#2,225 ·
WTA is doing it for themselves, not for Caro. Still trying to squeeze out some clicks from what has remained from her name.
No wonder Adidas bosses are not amused, this kind of losses are now very frequent. I think that Caro might be freaking out as well although she doesn't show it. I don't know what on earth are they doing but these results show that they have not backtracked and gone back to her old game at all. The old game would not lead to such disasters,no way. She would not give Suarez-Navarro any cheap errors and would use her opportunities.

I agree that she needs to do something about her focus and fast. She still has become a player that other want to have in their draw now. She's looking as someone who has lost her way and confidence. Hopefully she'll find it. She can look at Ana as an example of where loss of focus can lead...
 
#2,232 ·
You're probably right about the WTA's primary motives,and I'd say that they were also trying to put p.r. spin on the perception that their top players sometimes aren't nearly as strong as the best in the ATP...and so WTA hacks spin it as if the low-ranked player had an amazing,phenomenal match--and that her victory were truly awesome--instead of being candid that a few of the players who attained high rankings weren't really as good as their peak rankings showed.

Of course,JJ and Caro both rightfully earned their #1s with long-term consistent play,unlike two of the joke #1s who got there with a handful of aberrant,flukish results at Slams and Premiers.However,now a RANKINGS-based upset over Caro--not actually an upset in the truest sense--is just an opportunity for the WTA to practice their b.s. propaganda skills which show almost ZERO respect for the fans' intelligence.

One thing you didn't mention was the sporting culture that's fostered by the WTA.Again,I can't speak for the ATP,but other sports don't insult their fans by pretending that a former peak player is still on that level.If the player employs foolhardy or wrongheaded training techniques,the media experts just shake their heads and are brutally honest about it.They don't act like the wussies in the tennis media who are apparently too fearful of losing interview opportunities.If a former top player,in other sports,has adopted an embarrassing,pathetic off-court/field routine,then the media types will REALLY distance themselves from that player until he gets his shit together,so to speak.

Even the league's themselves are more professional from a p.r. standpoint.E.g.,the Oakland Raiders USED TO BE an NFL franchise known for hard-hitting,intimidating defense,to the point where it was trendy to get their team gear.Those days are LONG gone,though,as the franchise has become a joke due to mismanagement.Fans would just look at each other in disbelief--and be pissed off--if the NFL followed the WTA model by pretending(promoting) that an upcoming Raiders game was as prestigious as it would have been 10-plus years ago.I suspect that part of that stems from the subculture of spoiled,rich girls who comprise much of the WTA.Stacy Allaster and crew wanna pamper them the same way that mommy and daddy always have.

I agree with most of the rest of your post;she should at least re-establish the fundamentals of the game that made her successful,previously.She can even postpone adding other elements to her play(am NOT referring to an effective,NEEDED sound service game)...UNTIL she has re-acquired a solid foundation to her game
 
#2,226 ·
I dont think she's freaking out, or she would play steadier.
I always knew this fall off was mental. If you're healthy you dont go from winning the most matches on the tour to losing to Vinci, Mchale, Pervak, Muguruza, Voegele, etc.

Caroline needs more desire, more hunger. Stuttgart cant mean one set trying hard, one not trying, then a week vacation.

I've said this before: If Serena or Sharapova lose round 1 at a major, you dont see them out & about. They have a burning desire to be great, and they are upset and desperate to improve.
Caroline treats a round 1 loss as a chance to have a vacation

She still can beat Pervak, Voegele, Muguruza. She showed that in Dubai & IW.
She has to want it bad, and she doesnt care enough
 
#2,227 ·
I dont think she's freaking out, or she would play steadier.
I always knew this fall off was mental. If you're healthy you dont go from winning the most matches on the tour to losing to Vinci, McHale, Pervak, Muguruza, Voegele, etc.

Caroline needs more desire, more hunger. Stuttgart cant mean one set trying hard, one not trying, then a week vacation.

I've said this before: If Serena or Sharapova lose round 1 at a major, you dont see them out & about. They have a burning desire to be great, and they are upset and desperate to improve.
Caroline treats a round 1 loss as a chance to have a vacation

She still can beat Pervak, Voegele, Muguruza. She showed that in Dubai & IW.
She has to want it bad, and she doesn't care enough.
It can't be that simple though. It's not like a tap that she can just turn on and off. Part of the problem may just be how hard she is having to work to get through matches, if every match starting from R1 is requiring full mental application to win, it's inevitable you will come unstuck eventually. I get the feeling not a lot comes easy to Caro anymore, she has very few matches she can go out there, play at 50% and cruise through.

It's always a question really do you lose your hunger and desire because you started losing (more often), or did you start losing more often because you lost your hunger and desire.
 
#2,228 ·
Here's a few clay court stats prior to yesterday's match against Suarez Navarro:


Win/loss record against top 30 players on red clay (plus the blue clay from 2012 Madrid) from 2009 through Fed Cup last weekend:

Caro : 13-13 (50%) - This includes a 2-0 retirement win over Wickmayer.
Caro (excluding 2011 season): 7-10 (41%) - This includes a 2-0 retirement win over Wickmayer.
Suarez Navarro: 2-9 (18%)


# of red clay tournaments (plus 2012 Madrid) played from 2009 through Fed Cup last weekend:

Caro: 20
Caro (excluding 2011 season): 14
Suarez Navarro: 29 - She missed all of the 2011 regular clay court season (as in after Miami through the French Open) and part of the 2010 regular clay court season.


% of losses on red clay (plus 2012 Madrid) to players outside the top 15 from 2009 through Fed Cup last weekend:

Caro: 12/18 (67%) - This includes a loss to Schiavone in 2010 who ended that season inside the top 10. I'm not counting a retirement in Bastad in 2011 after winning the 1st set against Arvidsson as a loss.
Caro (excluding 2011 season): 9/14 (64%) - This includes a loss to Schiavone in 2010 who ended that season inside the top 10.
Suarez Navarro: 24/29 (83%) - This includes a loss to Li in 2009 who ended that season inside the top 15 and a loss to Schiavone in 2010 who ended that season inside the top 10. I'm not counting a retirement in Fes while leading 6-5 1st set against Keothavong as a loss.
 
#2,230 ·
In her good days, she was steady and mentally tough. I thought her game fit her skillset.
Part of this problem is an aggressive forehand is not something she does well.
Its easy for her team to get tapes of beating Azarenka & Dementieva in Tokyo 2010 or beating Zvonareva & playing Kim close in YEC 2010 or beating Sharapova US Open 2010 or IW 2011.

Easy to see what she did well and what she struggled with.
Now, she has no consistency. She throws these matches away with lame forehand errors.
Even back in her best days I thought she had to be steadier on her forehand, because thats the side her opponents attacked. Now she just gives away points on her forehand side. Its a stupid style of play for her. Her forehand is always going to be the side she has to be careful about. Its never going to be a consistent weapon
 
#2,233 ·
It all comes back to what direction is Caroline going in? Whose ideas are they? I swear in the off-season there was talk of going back to what made her successful in the first place, but now it seems from her latest performances and interview we are back to trying to be more and more aggressive, hitting forehand winners etc. It just seems there is no real direction being taken at all.

In other news, Caro has 7 losses to lower ranked players this year (6 of which were outside the top 60), those players have combined to win one more match after beating Caroline.
 
#2,235 ·
@bruce goose Something you have to bare in mind is how much promotion and money the WTA invested in Caroline as their next big player. They are probably desperate for her to have success, so it makes sense for them to big her up even if she is a shadow of her former self. It's kind of like they don't want their investment to go down the drain.

It's worth noting it's not only WTA that are responsible. Sky Sports used that match for their headline for the whole event yesterday with a headline of something like "Suarez Navarro stuns Wozniacki".
 
#2,239 ·
Thank you for your input,which I appreciate,but the WTA even did that with Dinara when she was #1.Though I still have affection for my retired fave,Dinarik,I can candidly admit that she wasn't one of the centerpieces of the WTA's promo machine like some of the more glamorous gals are.I suppose that Sky Sports is complicit with the WTA,and their b.s. propaganda,if they cover the sport regularly.

I'll give another example from the NBA: The Orlando Magic made the Finals a few years back.Now,after trading off their top players,they are a bottom feeder.If the NBA tried to promote an upcoming Orlando game as if they were the same team that they were 3 years ago,fans would feel insulted and HEAVILY bash and ridicule the league in the 'blogosphere'.Even the media that covers the sport would look at each other and ask,'WTF does the league think they're doing:rolleyes:!??'
 
#2,245 ·
Now she goes to Madrid having lost to Muguruza, Voegele, CSN in her last 4 matches.
Probably her worst form since she was 16, and she isnt even trying anymore. She had her bags packed & her airline ticket in hand after one set in Stuttgart.

Her last good match was against a top 50 player was Kerber at IW. I saw that and didnt think she was playing aggressively. I remember the crowd laughing at the moonball rallies.

Does anyone have stats of forehand winners in each set against Kerber?
 
#2,246 ·
Caro had 29 winners for the match against Kerber. I thought Caro was relatively aggressive in that match despite the moonballing.

I don't think the forehand winners per set were given in that match. That type of detail generally isn't given after sets. Sometimes they've give the total forehand winners at certain points in the match though.
 
#2,248 ·
I remember her forehand was quite impressive in that match. Shame it just lasted that... one match.
I don't know if it's the bad taste of her last match, but I feel her backhand is regressing. It used to be rock solid, now she doesn't attack so much with it and the errors are creeping in on basic shots. I guess it's just another symptom of her drop of level, first it was the forehand, then the serve and now the backhand.
 
#2,249 ·
^ Her Forehand was good in that Elena Vesnina match & Nadia Petrova Match as well at IW, I also feel that way too some time about her BH, I hope she improve her Serve the most through she need too learn how gain free point on her serve so that one area on her game that can use improving the most. I just hoping she work with Sven alot before Madrid she need all the practice time she can get. I still think a new coach is need but caro not changing mind atm
 
#2,250 · (Edited)
29 winners in 3 sets, so about 10 a set, maybe 5 with her forehand?
I cant believe they really think Caro is going to wake up one day and her forehands are going to be hit with pace and land just inside the lines all match

She's capable of winning every match she played this year, except Sharapova and Kvitova, playing her old style
I cant figure out what they're doing, but it doesnt seem like Caro is mentally set on accomplishing it. She's going the wrong direction

She never only hit slow, she always varied pace & placement. I didnt think she was aggressive against Kerber. But she tried hard to win the match and was playing steady the last 2 sets. That match started with Kerber hitting great shots when Caro hit her backhand crosscourt, and later she started going more down the middle with her backhand, or not going for big angles crosscourt.
What do we expect in Madrid?
 
#2,252 ·
Caro doesn't need to hit more winners with her forehand. She just needs to win more points with her forehand.

The "winners" stat is so deceptive. I saw her match against Voegele, and she likely had more forehand winners than usual in that match despite the loss. However, this does not tell the story of how bad her forehand was during the match. There were numerous points in which she got herself inside the baseline and in a good position to finish the point only to hit a short FH with not nearly enough angle. The result of which was that Caroline was then out of position and Voegele had an easy DTL winner. Had Caroline won half of these points, she probably would have won in straight sets.

I believe Sanchez was on the right track in trying to promote her inside-out forehand. I thought the same thing back at the start of 2012 and was optimistic of her improvement after her tight QF loss to Clijsters. I wrote an article about her game following that match (If you're interested, the link is here). Of course, her serve has also regressed since then.

I posted a knee-jerk poll a few weeks back concerning her forehand and took a lot of grief for it. But I really believe this is the key that is holding her back. She's kind of like a horse running on three legs, and it's really amazing how good she was despite her handicap.
 
#2,253 ·
2 years ago I thought Caroline had an excellent game, and just needed to keep trying to improve her serve, forehand and volley, while maintaining her style of play.

Caroline didnt believe she had an excellent game, or she would have never blown it up the way she did
 
#2,257 ·
Even though it might sell lots of copies amongst smut fans,I'd ALSO like the chapter,"Caroline gets widely passed around the ATP," to be omitted from the book.Of course,it'd be better if there were no basis whatsoever for such claims,nor do I think that there ever WILL be:angel:.There are already ample gals who fit that description;)
 
#2,259 ·
I propose a chapter about "How I Lost My Game By Keeping My Father As Coach." I am thoroughly disgusted, and I don't care about how Caroline and her father are oh so close, she tried Sanchez and it didn't work, her father got her to #1, it is all Rory McIlroy's fault or "he is an albatross," she and her father are close, and on and on. It is all BS. Every woman in her group and most newer players have coaches, and they are beating the crap out of her. She needs someone to tell her the straight truth right now in a nice but very, very firm way. She is too damn old to be depending on her father who, in my opinion, is intrusive as hell on the court. His monologues are painful to watch and listen to.

I am sure this will not be a popular position here or anywhere. Well, maybe in the coaches lobby.
 
#2,261 ·
I propose a chapter about "How I Lost My Game By Keeping My Father As Coach." I am thoroughly disgusted, and I don't care about how Caroline and her father are oh so close, she tried Sanchez and it didn't work, her father got her to #1, it is all Rory McIlroy's fault or "he is an albatross," she and her father are close, and on and on. It is all BS. Every woman in her group and most newer players have coaches, and they are beating the crap out of her. She needs someone to tell her the straight truth right now in a nice but very, very firm way. She is too damn old to be depending on her father who, in my opinion, is intrusive as hell on the court. His monologues are painful to watch and listen to.

I am sure this will not be a popular position here or anywhere. Well, maybe in the coaches lobby.
I don't know exactly why but this line actually made me laugh out loud.:lol:

I am picturing Agnieszka holding Caroline's arms behind her back while Victoria mercilessly pummels her in the stomach.
 
#2,262 ·
The worst part of this is how easily she accepts losing. Sharapova is in her 3rd straight final. Vika withdraws rather than losing.
Caroline loses & loses & loses.. and she still plays this goofy style where she makes forehand errors on the most crucial points.

Lets say she really is trying to switch to an aggressive forehand game. Until she gets there (thats a big assumption that she'll ever be good at this) wouldnt she still play the big points more carefully, so she can get another match and another chance to hit more aggressive forehands?

Its the way she loses, almost tanking matches that are very winnable.. That really is the strange part. She doesnt mind losing every match

In 6 of 10 tournaments this year she lost 1st or 2nd match. 3 wins in 6 tournaments! She used to win 30,40 matches before she lost 6 matches
 
#2,266 ·
The worst part of this is how easily she accepts losing. Sharapova is in her 3rd straight final. Vika withdraws rather than losing.
Caroline loses & loses & loses.. and she still plays this goofy style where she makes forehand errors on the most crucial points.

Its the way she loses, almost tanking matches that are very winnable.. That really is the strange part. She doesn't mind losing every match.

In 6 of 10 tournaments this year she lost 1st or 2nd match. 3 wins in 6 tournaments! She used to win 30,40 matches before she lost 6 matches.
Why worry about losing? There is always next week :rolleyes:.
 
#2,269 ·
I really don't get this, everyone over analysing every detail of Caro's game, life, coaching selection etc.
There's nothing we can do about it but support Caro as her fans. It just makes you miserable.
 
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#2,271 ·
If I may be nosey,why are you posting at 4:30am on a Sunday:p?

Tbh,I can sympathize with Burisleif and like-minded folks;from a practical standpoint,there's no apparent utility at all in rehashing Caroline's struggles w/o end(though I fretted aimlessly,myself,in other forums some years ago),and it DOES create an air of negativity.However,I've long since learned and adapted to the fact that that's how sports fan forums ARE,so maybe I've grown numb to it:lol:.
 
#2,272 ·
I just like too see her get back into the groove of things, I know it going take a while for her too get back into too good form but I would at least like too see her try too make the changes & Improvements in her game like I said in one my other post I think sometimes she worry about her fitness more than her game hopefully that would change in the future don't get me wrong I think it great she stay fit I think IMO she the Fitness player out there but I feel she haven't take it too the next level yet with her game, so I hoping she starting working & Improving on different area in her game soon Too live up too her potential. As of now I hope she train with Sven alot this Clay Season as well as Grass & Summer Hard courts
 
#2,286 ·
...Not yet 19 years of age!
Yeah,tbh,I didn't wanna look at Caro too much back then b/c I didn't like the idea of being a dirty old man:lol:.Even now,with her having matured both physically and emotionally off court,I like her too much AS A PERSON to over-visualize her as a Hot Chica...though she's not fulfilling her end of the bargain by posing in those tempting underwear ads:lol:
 
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